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So there is a 304 page Chaos Tome coming that is listed at $33.

I kind of did a double take.

I'm primarily a chaos player so this is something I'd get anyway but the $33 price tag for a book that size from GW is unheard of.

Probably 33 GBP... expected $1000 AUD

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/676851.page#8389712

GW are testing the water with a big cheap book that is really a gaming aid (as the rules are free anyway). It's a very interesting move and I would probably get an Order book of the same - but as GW seem desperate to not show us any pictures of standard Dwarfs, Elves or Humans I'm not sure it'll happen...

auticus wrote:
So there is a 304 page Chaos Tome coming that is listed at $33.

I kind of did a double take.

I'm primarily a chaos player so this is something I'd get anyway but the $33 price tag for a book that size from GW is unheard of.

Considering the majority of the book is rules that they also provide for free on their webstore I don't think they could have hoped to sell a lot of them unless the price was in this region.

Many people prefer to have their rules on paper rather than digital. That's how Mantic, PP and others still sell a lot of rulebooks even when they provide the rules for free but this one still cost a lot more than those books (although it's cheaper than the 'traditional' GW hardback codexii)

 Bottle wrote:
GW are testing the water with a big cheap book that is really a gaming aid (as the rules are free anyway). It's a very interesting move and I would probably get an Order book of the same - but as GW seem desperate to not show us any pictures of standard Dwarfs, Elves or Humans I'm not sure it'll happen...

I'd imagine that others are to follow once the bulk of those alliances are released.

I will buy this to support the more reasonable price. Honestly, if they priced all their books around 30 bucks I'd have every codex and army book that they printed.

It was a kick in the teeth to have to spend 200 dollars on the combined Eldar rules.

Hero606v2 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
GW are testing the water with a big cheap book that is really a gaming aid (as the rules are free anyway). It's a very interesting move and I would probably get an Order book of the same - but as GW seem desperate to not show us any pictures of standard Dwarfs, Elves or Humans I'm not sure it'll happen...

I'd imagine that others are to follow once the bulk of those alliances are released.

Yes, I would think so! Well, the sooner the better for me :-)

This is going off topic, but your comment about the "bulk" of the chaos grand alliance already being released got me thinking about chaos and the other grand alliances, it seems interesting that with the move from WHFB to AoS the only real change is with all the order factions. Every other faction is pretty much the same as it was, and it looks to be that way moving forward. Weren't the order factions all amoung the best selling factions? Why is it only those which need to be completely redesigned? Interesting discussion to be had perhaps.

Eh it looks like a good deal. My hope is that this will include more nurgle/Rotbringers models. Still upset my Nurgle warrior models don't get any special rules unless I'm a cheesy monkey and count them as 30+ blightkings

 pox wrote:
I will buy this to support the more reasonable price. Honestly, if they priced all their books around 30 bucks I'd have every codex and army book that they printed.

It was a kick in the teeth to have to spend 200 dollars on the combined Eldar rules.

Lots of people used to buy every book released... I don't know of anyone who still does this, although I'm sure someone out there has.

But it's another case of their pricing structure leading to less sales... I think this new book is a good idea, although cards would be even better. It's so much easier to see stats on a card than to flip through a book for them!

I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate cards.

They get lost too easily and in many cases the print just isn't great when you're dealing with units. It's not too difficult to take a sticky note and put it on a page you reference alot.
As gaming aids, they're fine for things like Objective Cards or Warlord traits--but I would not touch unit stat cards with a ten foot pole.

In any regards, this is also where we've gotten confirmation of a "Tzeentch" force that is likely to be similar to the Khorne Bloodbound or Nurgle Rotbringers--they're called the "Tzeentch Arcanites".

Easy enough to offer them in both book and card form... Privateer Press is the obvious example, not sure if Malifaux does, too? I like to have both on-hand, as you say, in case the card gets lost. I also have the rules in app form (for PP) in case I don't have either of the former on-hand . No harm in variety!

The magic cards in 8th were my favorite gaming aid. They looked so cool and I loved lining them up on my side of the table and admiring them during my opponent's turn. Even better was holding them close to your chest and then placing one down before casting a spell with a smug look like you've just played a royal flush. Ah, I love those cards. I still get them out from my "WHFB Memories" box from time to time and try and think of ways to use them in AoS...

Anyway. The point is I would LOVE cards for AoS.

 pox wrote:
Honestly, if they priced all their books around 30 bucks I'd have every codex and army book that they printed.

I fully agree. My wife bought some Sigmarines with wings (sorry don't know their names) and lucky for me, I was able to return them and get something that I wanted. Wife didn't know what I like with GW. I just can't justify paying $75 Canadian for 3 figures. That being said, if their books were cheaper like these prices they are doing for the Chaos book, I might have kept those minis and maybe bought more since I might have seen some worth to them because I would know their fluff and might get interested in them. Not knowing what they were, their fluff, couldn't get excited for them or care.

Now I am scared. I am scared I will like more in the Chaos, and buy more now. Seeing how the Everchosen is on the cover, and I am guessing will be in the book, if there is good fluff for him in the book, I am thinking I will buying that mini sometime soon.

I'm still waiting on beastmen. If they get lots of new models it will mean GW at least has some precedence for new releases for old armies. If they don't then they just repackaged models that look like they are from the 80s, which is a dire sin that forces me to drop games. At least for daemons the oooold models are direct only and are ignored when a new books showcase is made up

 RiTides wrote:

 pox wrote:
I will buy this to support the more reasonable price. Honestly, if they priced all their books around 30 bucks I'd have every codex and army book that they printed.

It was a kick in the teeth to have to spend 200 dollars on the combined Eldar rules.

Lots of people used to buy every book released... I don't know of anyone who still does this, although I'm sure someone out there has.

But it's another case of their pricing structure leading to less sales... I think this new book is a good idea, although cards would be even better. It's so much easier to see stats on a card than to flip through a book for them!

I used to, back around 3-4th edition 40k and 6-7th fantasy. I also used to buy all of the BL sourcebooks (book of grudges, the chaos books, Armageddon introspection, etc.)

Once the books passed the 35 dollar mark I now only buy the rulebooks I need. It's especially hard with these double-pump releases to get all the rules for your army. there were two Ork codexes, two Dark Eldar, two Adeptus Mechanicus, and they were all 50 bucks each. Even when they have released the army as one book, they charge more. (SM and Eldar come to mind.)

I used to buy 25-30 codexes, rulebooks, supplements, and background books a year. Ironically even though I have a lot more disposable income I buy less then ten a year now.

The AdMech books are(and have been since they launched) $33 each. Not $50. Anyone who tried to tell you or sell you them for $50 each is trying to hustle you.
There weren't two Ork or Dark Eldar codices either. There was a Codex and a Supplement--you couldn't run them without each other.

They've more or less ceased that, instead going for Campaign books.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The AdMech books are(and have been since they launched) $33 each. Not $50. Anyone who tried to tell you or sell you them for $50 each is trying to hustle you.
There weren't two Ork or Dark Eldar codices either. There was a Codex and a Supplement--you couldn't run them without each other.

They've more or less ceased that, instead going for Campaign books.

I didn't buy the AdMech books, I just assumed they were the same price. I disagree with you on the Ork books and the Dark Eldar books, however. They are rules for formations with alternate list builds, and they were written at the same time as the main rulebook. If you play the army, you want the rules. In film they call it a double pump, the theatrical release comes out first, then a month or so later the added features/directors cut/deleted scenes/commentary track one comes out. It's just a way to bleed out more money, and to me it is disingenuous.

If they had put out a rulebook and then a Background sourcebook to me it would have seemed less of a cash grab and more of a buy the rules and/or buy the background. Mixing half and half again forces the player to buy both if they want all the rules available for their army.

If it has the formations for Khorne Bloodbound I'll definitely pick it up.

 pox wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The AdMech books are(and have been since they launched) $33 each. Not $50. Anyone who tried to tell you or sell you them for $50 each is trying to hustle you.
There weren't two Ork or Dark Eldar codices either. There was a Codex and a Supplement--you couldn't run them without each other.

They've more or less ceased that, instead going for Campaign books.

I didn't buy the AdMech books, I just assumed they were the same price.

A cursory glance at their webstore would show you that there are quite a few books which are under $50.

I disagree with you on the Ork books and the Dark Eldar books, however. They are rules for formations with alternate list builds, and they were written at the same time as the main rulebook. If you play the army, you want the rules. In film they call it a double pump, the theatrical release comes out first, then a month or so later the added features/directors cut/deleted scenes/commentary track one comes out. It's just a way to bleed out more money, and to me it is disingenuous.

You can disagree with me if you'd like, but the "Waagh! Ghagzkull" and "Haemonculus Covens" books were marketed and are still marked out as supplements, not codices. Both of those as well, were included with the "Collector's Editions" of their respective parent books as an incentive/bonus for those who bought those books.

You can't run the Haemonculus Coven or Waagh! Ghazghkull stuff without the parent book--hence it can't be its own Codex.

If they had put out a rulebook and then a Background sourcebook to me it would have seemed less of a cash grab and more of a buy the rules and/or buy the background. Mixing half and half again forces the player to buy both if they want all the rules available for their army.

Nothing about those books is mandatory for you to play the army.

I'm talking about my perceived value, which most GW books do not have for me. No matter how you slice it or break it down, I do not find most of their current line of books worth buying because they are too expensive per book or are required to be bought in pairs to get the whole picture.

If you view them as worth what you paid for, then obviously they are a good perceived value. For what it's worth, even though I had to drop over 200 bucks on the Eldar books I found them lush, full of detail, models, stories, and background. It gave me all the details I needed to design the force I want to build. It was only in hind-sight that I realized how much I had spent so far for the army, and had not yet purchased a single model.

I've just touched on 40k, the AoS prices were ridiculous until the current book we are discussing.

The interesting thought about the book is how it shows that GW apparently are not wiping the webstore clean of WFB models for the moment. So, there appears to be lots of pages in this for old Skaven, Beastmen and Warriors models, alongside the new Blightkings and Khorne dudes. I remember when we were first discussing rumours of AoS, that the impression many had was that there would be a rapid cycle-out of the old ranges, leading to an entirely new range. And yet now we see the Seraphon being entirely repackaged Lizardmen models - some really new and really nice, others older and nastier - and this book which contains support for older models. I think that there was a fairly widespread expectation that the PDFs would be the last hurrah for those models, an expectation that does not appear to be correct.

So does this mean that I should not expect radically crazy things to happen to the Death faction? We've seen nothing for them so far, beyond the End Times kits. Will there be a Death book, which will include some cheeky pictures of a round-based Casket of Souls and Blood Knights? In short, will GW simply keep the webstore flush with older kits which they will happily sell alongside the newer more crazy things?

Oh, 33$ for a 304 pages book is fine...to read at home.

That's not something I will take with me each time I want to play a game of AoS at my friend's place. For that, it's easier for me to copy all the game data I need on a few pages (yeah, I'm quite old school, I still use pens and papers for my games...).

But then, that's not the purpose of such a book. It's purely for the pleasure of reading it peacefully at home, I believe. And the beauty of the nice pictures inside, of course.