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 gwarsh41 wrote:

And all the flayed ones get is a +6 reanimation. Just about as pointless.

at 13pts and inside decurion or mephryt ... they are still good fodder

 Kirasu wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Pretty useless compared to TWC.. 10 points more and you are better in virtually every single way.

I'm waiting to see the translation, but...

TWC can't get an assault transport.

Sure they can, it's called being cavalry and they don't have to pay for it :p

These guys are able to disembark from their Assault Transport, Run, then Charge all in one go.

So it's like Cavalry that aren't making Dangerous Terrain tests for Difficult Terrain.

 gwarsh41 wrote:


And all the flayed ones get is a +6 reanimation. Just about as pointless.

How? They'll have double the dudes and at least some sort of save. Make that 5+ in a Decurion, too.

Overpriced footslogging Assault units are almost never a good thing. Even if they take an assault transport and have their Run + rerollable charge (which it kinda sounds like but unclear yet), compared to what's already in the game and is being used, they're pretty poor. Being a slightly better unit than Assault Marines doesn't mean good, it just means slightly less bad.

I'd bet they're str5. They're absolutely not going to be str3, that would be absurd. Guardsmen are str3.

how can you guys even fathom them being s3? the number is identical to their initiative digit

 gwarsh41 wrote:

And all the flayed ones get is a +6 reanimation. Just about as pointless.

Not when they're half the price and sporting ubiquitous Decurion bonuses

 Vaktathi wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

And all the flayed ones get is a +6 reanimation. Just about as pointless.

Not when they're half the price and sporting ubiquitous Decurion bonuses

The original point was they are as durable as non decurion flayed ones. Someone said when a knight shoots a double battlecanon, the wolves are pointless compared to the non decurion flayed ones. If either unit gets hit with 2 battle cannons, they are in trouble. I am not downplaying flayed ones, or saying wulfen are better. Just comparing the two to show that the wulfen are not crap durability. You all took that quote out of context.

Here is an easy comparison showing how people get the numbers confused. Cover the 3 and it looks like a 5, cover the 5 and it looks like a 3.

The rules seem ok for me, but the models are ugly.
I mean, look at the old models ! Just look !
How can a company fall so low...

Probably in the minority, but I actually like the models.... Also, Toughness looks like 3 since you can see the same number for attacks, and their Champ gets 4. We will know for sure when its released though, so there is that.

If they end up with no FNP, they'll be pretty bad.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

And all the flayed ones get is a +6 reanimation. Just about as pointless.

Not when they're half the price and sporting ubiquitous Decurion bonuses

The original point was they are as durable as non decurion flayed ones. Someone said when a knight shoots a double battlecanon, the wolves are pointless compared to the non decurion flayed ones.

ah, apologies i missed that (different posts appear different sizes on my phone on this board for some reason and I miss things some times).

That said, I don't think I've ever seen flayed ones run without being part of a decurion...

What I see is:

Normal Wolfy Dudes:
WS4, BS2, S5, T4, W2, I5, A3, Ld8, Sv4+

Head Wolf Dude
WS4, BS2, S5, T4, W2, I5, A4, Ld9, Sv4+

It is all making sense now! GW is going forward with the End Times. That's why Daemon and CSM are not getting updated soon, they need to forward the timeline a little more before unleashing chaos.

Dark Angels codex hint at the Lion waiting for the end times to come so he can turn the tide, the Golden Throne is failling, Commoragh gates are about to fall. The Eldar and Harlequin are preparing a last stand againts Slaneesh. The Tyranids progress even further through the IoM threathening plamet like Baal. The Damocles Gulf is literally burning. Aun'Va was killed.

I find that GW is adding or talking more openly about the "End Times" since 7th ed. started in both the codexes and in the campaigns compared to the 6th ed. codexes. I'm calling next expansion/codex for the Dark Angels will fearure Lion El' J.



While the End Times are near, the Wulfen emerge from the Warp everywhere in the galaxies to fight alongside their brethren. Their rage infects their Chapter Brothers.

I bet the daemons get a better book and rule set out of this than the wolf marines.

On the german boards there is more information. Still unclear though is the actual S stat

The Curse of the Wulfen rule - as rumored so far

The Wulfen influence other Space Wolves units - e.g. in 12" Blood Claws, in 6" Grey Hunter, in 3" Long Fangs - they gain several boni you roll for on one of two tables.

If the influenced units are enganged in close combat they gain buffs from the 'Slaughter' table and if unengaged from the 'Hunter' one. The table names are not the actual ones but loose translations from the rumors in german we just got in.

1-3 are light boni like +1 I or Re-Roll Charge ranges
4-5 medium boni (unknown)
6 Furious charge / +D3 A / The 'fight back after slain-special' rule the Wulfen have


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
What I see is:

Normal Wolfy Dudes:
WS4, BS2, S5, T4, W2, I5, A3, Ld8, Sv4+

Head Wolf Dude
WS4, BS2, S5, T4, W2, I5, A4, Ld9, Sv4+

Spoiler:

Except for the S stat which is open for debate this is most likely correct.

The other rules are

- Rage
- And they shall know no fear
- Curse of the Wulfen
- Counter-attack
- Bulky (they are on 40mm bases btw)
- Acute senses
- Feel no pain

- They can run and charge in the same turn and also re-roll failed charge ranges.

As a long time SW player who loved the original concept of the 13th company, it is hard not to be disappointed by the models and dex.

First the wolf legs are horrible- glad they protected their knees perfectly with the armor. So many great sculpting opportunities missed, they could have had parts of their armor broken, or missing, each model different like the FW Word Bearers. I would assume they will be in boxes of 5, and set at $50, which means I will have to purchase legs for them as well, my only hope is they are the same size as normal marines so the swap will be easy.

As far as rules, elite infantry doesnt work, it doesnt matter how many rules you pile up- rage, counter attack, a random roll on a table (we all know how great rules design that is), the game is about superheavies, knights, and Surges. So they have FnP and 2 wounds- great , but then take a step backwards with a 16% loss in durability with a 4+ save- and they cost more than 2 marines with no shooty weapon and the same weapons are going to negate both their FnP and 2 wounds, you could give them 10 wounds each but MLs are going to kill them- how many people think Tyranid Warriors are awesome and they have 3. Wraiths are 30 pts too right, with a 3+ invul and better stats. I don't know why we are comparing them to Flayed Ones, they are an average units in Codex:Necrons, the Wulfen are the center piece unit of the 13th company, if they are bad, there is no reason to even use the supplement. They had to be an improvement on normal marines to make them useful and point for point, they aren't. Now, 20 pts would have been a good fit with 4+ armor and no shooting, especially if they kept the army list fluffy with no vehicles. At 150 pts, they are too cheap to be a diversion and even though they can strike even if they are killed in combat, they won't get into combat against a decent player with a decent 7th edition list.

And the table- (man I hate random tables)- so how do wulfen make Long Fangs better? Extra attacks in combat? So take a shooty unit and make it chances to reroll charge ranges and extra attacks- super.

I saw they had an option for grenade launchers, so are we to believe that when they went into the warp, they left their assault grenades behind and we need to pay extra to be able to assault into cover?

Even 5, while needing a transport of some kind, with rage will be putting out 5 attacks on the charge plus weapon bonuses. Scary.

We dont know that they can have a transport for sure.

Also- why would you think they will ever get to combat? Is a rhino that much protection for them? If you are buying a land raider, you might as well put terminators in them as they are the same price more or less.

Or better yet, just take a unit of 5 Thunderwolves for 50 pts more (essentially the same as buying a rhino or drop pod) and you get better stats and better movement, not to mention, if I had to guess, adding a storm shield is cheaper on the thunderwolves than it will be on the wulfen, since you had to add both a thunderhammer and a storm shield correct?

If you add a transport and options now your unit is over 200 pts, I think Id rather take a unit of grav centurions right? Or maybe a Riptide.

Does anyone know how many formations there are for the SW? Is it just the base list?

Stormwolf would just add more points to an already expensive point sink entry.

One of their options is a stormwolf transport, isn't it

S5 has now been confirmed

@Styrguard Well they are like Nobz and Harlequin Troupes who also get rofl-stomped by superheavies but still have their place in an army against other enemy units.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
One of their options is a stormwolf transport, isn't it

Yes, it is their dedicated transport

Warhams-77. Do they have formations? No one really takes Nobs in units unless they have megaarmor though right? I just dont see any kind of niche for them that SW dont already have. I can take Terminators for around 30pts, I can take Thunderwolves for 40 pts- if I want resiliency, some of them get Storm Shields and they cant be instant killed by most weapons- so they are more resilient and faster and just as killy.

Now- maybe the book isnt supposed to be about the wulfen and you are better off just taking grey hunters and thunderwolves and both of those units are better in the supplement. If that is the case, great, I just saved some money. I guess I fail to see any advantages they bring over normal SW units.

"While the End Times are near, the Wulfen emerge from the Warp everywhere in the galaxy to fight alongside their brothers. Their rage while infects their Brethens."

Oh good, they're moving the clock to Ten Seconds to Midnight now.

I mean, that doesn't mean much though. 40k has always been "in the throes of the end times", the clock is always 2 minutes to midnight, Chaos is always about to take over, and the Eldar are always about to have their final moments of glory. That's kinda been the status quo for many editions.

If they want to make spacewolves challenge top tier armies, they will give wulfen charge from outflank, that will be awesome and totally not broken with all that D strenght around. Strenght 10 charging from outflank with acute senses?? Yes please

Maybe I'm a terrible person and should quit the hobby right away and burn my models and scratch out my tongue, but I personally don't see how a smart player can't get alot of mileage out of this unit. They aren't point and click, but is that really why we play this game?

If nothing else, the unit synergies I can see benefitting other space wolf units alot. Did you want another TWC or a fluffy, deep unit that's challenging to use and rewards smart play? There's nothing wrong with this unit, not everything is a fething scatterbike and the game would be incredibly boring if they were.

So much negativity. Seems absurd. The game is better the more diversity it has.

As a daemon player, I'm more scared of these things than TWC. I can kill wolfstar reliably and sometimes unscathed, but these things will kill anything I charge them with regardless of if I wipe the unit or not. With possible character buffs and relics and who knows what else, they seem fine to me.

I'm not hyper competitive though.

Requizen wrote:
I mean, that doesn't mean much though. 40k has always been "in the throes of the end times", the clock is always 2 minutes to midnight, Chaos is always about to take over, and the Eldar are always about to have their final moments of glory. That's kinda been the status quo for many editions.

Was it ever called "Endtimes" before?
And they should know that after AoS the term has negative connections

"While the End Times are near, the Wulfen emerge from the Warp everywhere in the galaxy to fight alongside their brothers. Their rage while infects their Brethens."

lelel, should I start selling my toys now?

Requizen wrote:
I mean, that doesn't mean much though. 40k has always been "in the throes of the end times", the clock is always 2 minutes to midnight, Chaos is always about to take over, and the Eldar are always about to have their final moments of glory. That's kinda been the status quo for many editions.

True, but the fact that they called it the End Times, capitalizatied and all in German, makes me skeptical and a tad bit scurvy about it. I honestly would not mind the story moving forward, but don't rip the universe completely apart to rebuild a bubble world.

I'll get even more salty if GW does an End Times, or even Age of Sigmar, on 40k.