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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 18:12:00
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Interesting...
New evidence suggests a ninth planet lurking at the edge of the solar system
by Joel Achenbach and Rachel Feltman
( https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/01/20/new-evidence-suggests-a-ninth-planet-lurking-at-the-edge-of-the-solar-system/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_planets-1050am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory)
Astronomers at the California Institute of Technology announced Wednesday that they have found new evidence of a giant icy planet lurking in the darkness of our solar system far beyond the orbit of Pluto. They are calling it "Planet Nine."
Their paper, published in the Astronomical Journal, describes the planet as about five to 10 times as massive as the Earth. But the authors, astronomers Michael Brown and Konstantin Batygin, have not observed the planet directly.
Instead, they have inferred its existence from the motion of recently discovered dwarf planets and other small objects in the outer solar system. Those smaller bodies have orbits that appear to be influenced by the gravity of a hidden planet – a "massive perturber." The astronomers suggest it might have been flung into deep space long ago by the gravitational force of Jupiter or Saturn.
Telescopes on at least two continents are searching for the object, which on average is 20 times farther away than the eighth planet, Neptune. If "Planet Nine" exists, it's big. Its estimated mass would make it about two to four times the diameter of the Earth, distinguishing it as the fifth-largest planet after Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. But at such extreme distances, it would reflect so little sunlight that it could evade even the most powerful telescopes.
Confirmation of its existence would reconfigure the models of the solar system. Pluto, discovered in 1930, spent three-quarters of a century as the iconic ninth planet. Then, a decade ago, Pluto received a controversial demotion, in large part because of Brown.
His observations of the outer solar system identified many small worlds there – some close to the size of Pluto –and prompted the International Astronomical Union to reconsider the definition of a planet. The IAU voted to change Pluto's classification to "dwarf planet," a decision mocked repeatedly last summer when NASA's New Horizons probe flew past Pluto and revealed a world with an atmosphere, weather and a volatile and dynamically reworked surface.
Brown, who tweets under the handle @plutokiller and who wrote the book "How I Killed Pluto and Why It Had It Coming," said now may be the time to rewrite the textbooks yet again.
"My daughter, she's still kind of mad about Pluto being demoted, even though she was barely born at that time," Brown said. "She suggested a few years ago that she'd forgive me if I found a new planet. So I guess I've been working on this for her."
NASA's director of planetary science, Jim Green, cautioned Wednesday that there could be other explanations for the observed motion of the small bodies in the outer solar system. He referenced the famous dictum from Carl Sagan that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
“The Sagan Rule applies. If it's there, find it. I challenge you. Somebody out there oughta find it," Green said.
But he said he was personally excited about the new research: "What an era we're in, where we’re discovering new things about our solar system that we never thought possible even a handful of years ago."
Brown and Batygin initially set out to prove that Planet Nine didn't exist. Their paper builds on earlier research by two other astronomers that revealed a peculiar clustering of the small, icy objects discovered in the past decade or so in the remote regions of the solar system.
In 2014, Scott Sheppard of the Washington-based Carnegie Institution of Science and Chad Trujillo of the Gemini Observatory in Hawaii published a paper in the journal Nature that discussed the potential existence of a giant planet affecting the orbits of those dwarf worlds. Sheppard and Trujillo noted a similarity in the motion of those bodies when they are closest to the sun.
"We thought their idea was crazy," Brown said, explaining that extra planets are always the "go-to suggestion" when astronomers find orbital behavior they can't explain. But he and Batygin struggled to debunk that hypothetical ninth planet. They used mathematical equations and then computer models, ultimately concluding that the best explanation for the smaller objects' clustering was the gravitational effects of something far bigger.
Such clustering is similar to what's seen in some asteroids that are about as close to the sun as the Earth. They wind up in stable orbits that keep them far from Earth and free from any significant disturbance by the Earth's gravity.
"Until then, we didn't really believe our results ourselves. It just didn't make sense to us," Brown said. But their modeling showed that a planet with 10 times the mass of Earth would exert an influence over the orbits of the smaller bodies and keep them from coming as close to the sun as they should. It would also slowly twist these orbits by 90 degrees, making them periodically perpendicular to the plane of the solar system.
"In the back of my head, I had this nagging memory that someone had found some of these modulating objects and not known what to make of them," Brown said. "And sure enough, these objects do exist. And they were exactly where our theory predicts they should be."
That's when the Caltech researchers started to take Planet Nine seriously. "That was the real jaw-dropping moment, when it went from a cute little idea to something that might be for real," he said.
Sheppard, who co-wrote the paper that Brown and Batygin set out to disprove, says the existence of a hidden planet is still a big unknown. "Until we actually see it for real, it will always be questionable as to whether it exists," he said, cautioning that the latest calculations are based on a relatively small number of known objects and that further observations and detections of perturbed bodies would bolster the hypothesis.
Still, Sheppard significantly upped the odds of discovery – from 40 percent before to 60 percent now. “Some people took it seriously, but a lot of people didn’t," he said of his own study's findings. "With this new work, it’s much more rigorous, and people will take it more seriously now.”
Brown said he puts the odds of Planet Nine being real as "maybe 90 percent."
From the Côte d'Azur Observatory in Nice, France, planetary scientist Alessandro Morbidelli agreed that the evidence was stronger this time. "I immediately felt that this paper, for the first time, was providing convincing evidence for a new planet in the solar system," said Morbidelli, an expert in these kinds of orbital movements who was not involved in either study. "I don't see any alternative explanation to that offered by Batygin and Brown."
"We will find it one day," he added. "The question is when."
The past two decades have seen a burst of discoveries as astronomers have scrutinized the light of distant stars and looked for signs of orbiting planets. More than a thousand such planets have been detected through analysis of starlight that has traveled across the vast interstellar distances. Brown and Batygin, however, have been searching closer to home, looking for objects that orbit the sun and remain unseen only because the outer regions of the solar system are exceedingly dark.
The thought of a hidden planet larger than Earth is intriguing, but for now it's difficult to say too much about the hypothetical conditions there. Brown believes it's probably an icy, rocky world with a small envelope of gas – a planet that could have been the core of a gas giant had it not been ejected into a wonky, highly elliptical orbit. It might not make its closest approach of the sun more than once every 10,000 years, and even then it would remain far beyond the known planets.
The situation mimics what happened in the 19th century when careful observation of the seventh planet, Uranus, indicated that there must be another body in far-distant space influencing its orbit. That work led eventually to the discovery of Neptune.
It would be difficult to see the ninth planet if it's not at or near its closest approach to the sun. Brown doesn't believe the object is at that point, saying it would have been spotted by now. But he does think that the most powerful telescopes on the planet, if pointed in precisely the right direction, might be able to detect it even when it is most distant from the sun.
"We've been looking for it for a while now, but the sky is pretty big," Brown said. "We know its path, but not where it is on that path."
He and Batygin hope their paper's publication will infuse the search with new energy. "If other people – better astronomers – get excited about the idea of finding Planet Nine, we could hopefully see it within a couple of years," he said.
The two know they may not get credit for that discovery. Until the planet is spotted directly with a telescope, any work surrounding it is theoretical. Brown, Batygin and other scientists who have made the case for Planet Nine's existence are providing treasure maps and clues – but someone else could very well strike gold before they do.
If and when it's spotted, Planet Nine would be evaluated by the same criteria that got Pluto demoted. Brown isn't concerned about that.
"That's not even a question -- it's definitely a planet," he said. One of the trickiest criteria for planet status, based on the standards set by the International Astronomical Union, is that a planet must "clear the neighborhood" around its orbital zone. It needs to have the gravitational prowess to change the orbits of other objects.
"Planet Nine is forcing any objects that cross its orbit to push into these misaligned positions. It fits that concept perfectly," Brown said.
The "Pluto killer" added: "Not to mention the fact that it's 5,000 times the mass of Pluto."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 18:27:16
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Fixture of Dakka
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NIBIRU!!!
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 19:10:47
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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You mean tenth planet. Pluto is still a planet. Regardless of what quack scientists currently believe this week.
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 19:23:43
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Huh? Planet is a naming convention. Whoever defines what falls under the category gets to decide whether or not a given object fits the description.
There are so many objects beyond Pluto that are so close to Pluto in composition that to call it a planet would mean to call all of these objects planets. Put simply, it makes more sense to demote Pluto to this class of object than promote however many Hundreds of small objects exist beyond Neptune.
You think scientists are quacks? It's a naming convention. Why anyone takes it personally rather than just accepting it and realizing the reason why simply doesn't make sense. Pluto doesn't care what you call it. Why do you care. It fits a particular term better than the one we initially gave it. Reasonable people reserve their right to change their position or mind in light of new understanding or evidence.
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7500 pts Chaos Daemons |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 21:43:29
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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AncientSkarbrand wrote:Huh? Planet is a naming convention. Whoever defines what falls under the category gets to decide whether or not a given object fits the description.
There are so many objects beyond Pluto that are so close to Pluto in composition that to call it a planet would mean to call all of these objects planets. Put simply, it makes more sense to demote Pluto to this class of object than promote however many Hundreds of small objects exist beyond Neptune.
You think scientists are quacks? It's a naming convention. Why anyone takes it personally rather than just accepting it and realizing the reason why simply doesn't make sense. Pluto doesn't care what you call it. Why do you care. It fits a particular term better than the one we initially gave it. Reasonable people reserve their right to change their position or mind in light of new understanding or evidence.
Don't be silly. Pluto is a planet.
It is known.
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 21:50:16
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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It is known.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 22:02:21
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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And if we still count Pluto, this new one can be mysterious planet X
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 22:09:53
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Master Shaper
Gargant Hunting
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I say we name the planet Skeletor.
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Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 22:12:01
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks
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Nah, it is a mass relay.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/20 22:12:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 22:36:18
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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[DCM]
Crazed Bloodkine
Baltimore, Maryland
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Iron_Captain wrote:AncientSkarbrand wrote:Huh? Planet is a naming convention. Whoever defines what falls under the category gets to decide whether or not a given object fits the description.
There are so many objects beyond Pluto that are so close to Pluto in composition that to call it a planet would mean to call all of these objects planets. Put simply, it makes more sense to demote Pluto to this class of object than promote however many Hundreds of small objects exist beyond Neptune.
You think scientists are quacks? It's a naming convention. Why anyone takes it personally rather than just accepting it and realizing the reason why simply doesn't make sense. Pluto doesn't care what you call it. Why do you care. It fits a particular term better than the one we initially gave it. Reasonable people reserve their right to change their position or mind in light of new understanding or evidence.
Don't be silly. Pluto is a planet.
It is known.
Lets just call it even and call this new planet Pluto?
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"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 23:06:12
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Fixture of Dakka
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Should call it Nibiru and watch the hilarity ensue.
Giorgio Tsoukalos' head would explode.
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/20 23:42:21
Subject: Re:The Search for Planet Nine
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Fixture of Dakka
West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA
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Giant space-gate. Just turned off currently. "Obviously".
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"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 00:54:44
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Fixture of Dakka
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This is cool stuff if they can find it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 11:43:09
Subject: Re:The Search for Planet Nine
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Astronomers have been speculating about this for quite a long time, and it doesn't seem like there is anything new to report here (yet). I believe that observations of "rogue planets" (planets that have been ejected by their star) have yielded predictions that they are about 4 times as common as stars (perhaps more for smaller ones). So there is a fair chance one is lurking within 1 or 2 light years of us. Who knows what The Sun might be dragging along with it in its wake. The galaxy could be filled with free-floating earth sized objects, with the sun perpetually flinging them out of the way like a snow plough. I expect that there are some very large objects within 1 light year that we haven't discovered yet, and I believe it is statistically quite likely that there are Mars sized objects in the Oort cloud, and possibly even something Earth sized. I don't know if the perturbations really mean anything. It's interesting, but there are other explanations, and there may not even be a pattern of perturbation.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/01/21 11:47:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 13:22:14
Subject: Re:The Search for Planet Nine
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Regular Dakkanaut
Hiding behind terrain
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Obviously all the scientists picking on Pluto got the attention of its big brother. Be warned scientists, your days are numbered. The frost giant cometh!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 14:00:40
Subject: Re:The Search for Planet Nine
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Lady of the Lake
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Clearly it's this thing and it's coming to take away Pluto to a system that actually appreciates it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 15:09:54
Subject: Re:The Search for Planet Nine
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Pluto was destined for greater things than being a planet, now it has an entire set of objects named "Plutoids" after it. I think the "Pluto is a planet" people need to think bigger, instead of fighting for Pluto to regain its status as a planet, they should be fighting to have the other planets change their status to "giant plutoid".
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/01/21 15:13:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 16:31:10
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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timetowaste85 wrote:You mean tenth planet. Pluto is still a planet. Regardless of what quack scientists currently believe this week.
I'd like to introduce you to a few people that very much agree with you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 17:07:21
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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While I get that people love Pluto, it's not like the criteria used to downgrade it from planet status was wholly arbitrary  Pluto unlike the planets of the Solar System, doesn't have a clear orbital path. Further, it is less massive than Eris, and how can we call Eris a dwarf planet without also lumping Pluto in via the same criteria?
Face Jerry! Pluto is not a planet!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/28 22:04:03
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Humorless Arbite
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Truth is, they made that criteria up so that this new planet would not be Planet X.
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Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/28 22:37:52
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Anti-Armour Swiss Guard
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Why would I want to learn about planet 9?
Planet 10 is where the lectroids live.
I need to build an oscillation overthruster to get there, though.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/28 22:38:10
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 12:17:33
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Planet Nine:
It's an ugly Planet, it's a BUG PLANET!
Death awaits all who go there.
Just saying...
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 12:26:35
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Fixture of Dakka
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notprop wrote:Planet Nine:
It's an ugly Planet, it's a BUG PLANET!
Death awaits all who go there.
Just saying...
I say we send a probe and nuke the site from orbit.
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 13:31:03
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Why waste a probe?
------> Collect £200 and advance straight to Nuking ------->
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 13:58:45
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Scuttling Genestealer
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timetowaste85 wrote:You mean tenth planet. Pluto is still a planet. Regardless of what quack scientists currently believe this week.
Fourteenth. If you're including Pluto as a planet, you got to include Ceres, Eris, Haumea, and Makemake too! Plus maybe Charon, as you could claim it's a double planet with Pluto, so fifteenth.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 14:09:34
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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Rootbeard wrote: timetowaste85 wrote:You mean tenth planet. Pluto is still a planet. Regardless of what quack scientists currently believe this week.
Fourteenth. If you're including Pluto as a planet, you got to include Ceres, Eris, Haumea, and Makemake too! Plus maybe Charon, as you could claim it's a double planet with Pluto, so fifteenth.
I started school in 1990. The list of planets are as follows:
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, Pluto.
Edit-order of a couple is slightly off
Anything outside of that list is new age crap. Get off my lawn!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/29 14:10:06
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 14:28:28
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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timetowaste85 wrote:I started school in 1990. The list of planets are as follows:
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, Pluto.
Edit-order of a couple is slightly off
I can't tell if you've done that deliberately to upset me, or if you just weren't paying enough attention in back in 1990. I hope they taught you your 1,2,4,3,5s and A,C, Bs properly
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/29 14:31:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 14:29:20
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Fixture of Dakka
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Smacks wrote: timetowaste85 wrote:I started school in 1990. The list of planets are as follows:
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, Pluto.
Edit-order of a couple is slightly off
I can't tell if you've done that deliberately to upset me, or if you just weren't paying enough attention in back in 1990. I hope the taught you your 1,2,4,3,5s and A,C, Bs properly
I know, my eye is twitching looking at that
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/29 14:29:47
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 15:37:52
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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Out of order was mostly because...I don't have a reason. I realize Jupiter came after Mars, followed by Saturn, Uranus, Neptune then Pluto...I was just kind of writing in a hurry. I DID play the Magic School Bus solar system computer game, after all!
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/29 21:27:07
Subject: The Search for Planet Nine
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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timetowaste85 wrote:I started school in 1990. The list of planets are as follows:
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, Pluto.
Edit-order of a couple is slightly off
Anything outside of that list is new age crap. Get off my lawn!
Yeah, and if you had started school before March 13, 1781, there would have been six known planets. If you had started school before September 23, 1846, there would have been seven known planets.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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