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Am I correct in reading that the twin-linking rule means that a weapon with Gets Hot must roll a 1 both on the initial roll and the reroll to potentially cause a wound/hull point loss? I don't have the rule book on me, but the phrasing was something like, "the second die must also be a 1..."

No, that on,y works if you ignore the context.

It is that even if the first roll was a 1, the second is only hot if the roll is also a one.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, that on,y works if you ignore the context.

It is that even if the first roll was a 1, the second is only hot if the roll is also a one.

Maybe I misread, but you just said the same thing he did. Both rolls must be a 1 to "get hot"

A miss followed by a one gets hot. It isn't ONLY a one followed by a one that gets hot.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
A miss followed by a one gets hot. It isn't ONLY a one followed by a one that gets hot.

Even though that's exactly what the rules say.

HIWPI is that you need to roll double ones but there are people who don't think that is right. Dakka won't come to a consensus any time soon.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
A miss followed by a one gets hot. It isn't ONLY a one followed by a one that gets hot.

Even though that's exactly what the rules say.

HIWPI is that you need to roll double ones but there are people who don't think that is right. Dakka won't come to a consensus any time soon.

That's how I've always thought it worked, and would expect it to work, but reading the RAW made me question it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
A miss followed by a one gets hot. It isn't ONLY a one followed by a one that gets hot.

Very subtle but viable difference. You can miss on a 2 (most times) and if you re-roll that, due to twin linked, THEN it gets hot on a roll of one.

Just explaining it further Nos, not disagreeing with you.

The text from the rule:

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit, a wound is only suffered if the to hit re-roll is *also* a 1."

Here's my problem - the word "also." If you take that word out, it reads as the reroll of any miss into a 1 results in a gets hot, as interpreted above. But it doesn't. Because it says "also," referring to the initial gets hot failure, it makes me think they both have to be 1's.

What is the heading for the section of rules you're reading? Its "Gets Hot and Re-rolls". It only applies when a weapon Gets Hot (i.e., has rolled a 'To Hit' roll of 1 and suffered a Wound) and has the ability to re-roll its rolls 'To Hit'.

That seems to be an odd addition to the rule, yeah. The statement would've worked just as fine for the common interpretation if "also" was left out.

So, RAW, it has to be a 1 followed by a 1.

 Ghaz wrote:
What is the heading for the section of rules you're reading? Its "Gets Hot and Re-rolls". It only applies when a weapon Gets Hot (i.e., has rolled a 'To Hit' roll of 1 and suffered a Wound) and has the ability to re-roll its rolls 'To Hit'.

That's a good point...so it sounds like we have another piece of evidence for the 1-1 only theory.

But the re-roll rule on page 11, states that a re-roll is just a re-roll and actually counts even if the re-roll result i worse. I interpet the gets-hot rule as just clarifying that if you roll a one on the the first dice than it does not count as a get-hot result unless the re-roll would turn up to be a one as well.

There is nothing telling us that a re-roll made because of a miss would never be a gets-hot result. The re-roll rule actually states that it is really counting as the dice thrown the first time. There is no other occurance where the result of the first die in a re-roll actually matters, other than the fact that once you re-roll a dice you may never re-roll it again.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
That seems to be an odd addition to the rule, yeah. The statement would've worked just as fine for the common interpretation if "also" was left out.

So, RAW, it has to be a 1 followed by a 1.

Again, no. It only applies due to context when you have already gotten hit. Is already rolled a one. If you haven't gotten hot, reroll end and THEN roll a one, you get hot as per the usual rule

It is essentially reiterating that the first roll of a reroll doesn't matter.

 McRage wrote:
But the re-roll rule on page 11, states that a re-roll is just a re-roll and actually counts even if the re-roll result i worse. I interpet the gets-hot rule as just clarifying that if you roll a one on the the first dice than it does not count as a get-hot result unless the re-roll would turn up to be a one as well.

There is nothing telling us that a re-roll made because of a miss would never be a gets-hot result. The re-roll rule actually states that it is really counting as the dice thrown the first time. There is no other occurance where the result of the first die in a re-roll actually matters, other than the fact that once you re-roll a dice you may never re-roll it again.

Yeah, this.

 McRage wrote:

There is nothing telling us that a re-roll made because of a miss would never be a gets-hot result. The re-roll rule actually states that it is really counting as the dice thrown the first time. There is no other occurance where the result of the first die in a re-roll actually matters, other than the fact that once you re-roll a dice you may never re-roll it again.

I don't think this is necessarily a good point, for two reasons: (1) the principle of a specific rule for gets hot overrules general rule about rerolls and (2) something being a unique occurrence doesn't make it automatically against the rules. (Take FNP as an example of (2) - it's a unique roll/rule that's not a save, but often functions in a similar fashion.) Honestly, I think youre right on the intent, but the wording implies otherwise.

Edit: as an aside, what could have actually happened here was that the rules writer forgot about the possibility of missing on a non-1 roll and ended up using wording reflecting that, as if rolling a 1 would be the only reason you'd reroll the twin-linked shot. That would explain the "also."

Essentially:

- First roll, you get a 1. You re-roll due to twin-linked.
- re-roll, you get a 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 and thus avoid gets hot.

- If you get a 1 on the re-roll then you have to take the gets hot saving roll.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
What is the heading for the section of rules you're reading? Its "Gets Hot and Re-rolls". It only applies when a weapon Gets Hot (i.e., has rolled a 'To Hit' roll of 1 and suffered a Wound) and has the ability to re-roll its rolls 'To Hit'.

That's a good point...so it sounds like we have another piece of evidence for the 1-1 only theory.

Except it doesn't support your '1-1 only' theory, as the section of rules only covers what happens if the initial To Hit roll is a 1. It does not cover what happens if the initial To Hit roll is a miss other than a 1.

 Slaphead wrote:
Essentially:

- First roll, you get a 1. You re-roll due to twin-linked.
- re-roll, you get a 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 and thus avoid gets hot.

- If you get a 1 on the re-roll then you have to take the gets hot saving roll.

Yes if you gets hot and then have a reroll.

But this is also a true statement because of the reroll rules:

- First roll, tou get a 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. You re-roll due to whatever rule(forced or by choice).

- If you get a 1 on the re-roll then you have to take the gets hot saving roll.

The reason for this is that a reroll is a new roll(technically a second roll, but I am not going to get into that and why the gets hot and rerolls rule is needed from that because it is a nightmare of oddities), and any roll of 1 gets hot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slaphead wrote:
Essentially:

- First roll, you get a 1. You re-roll due to twin-linked.
- re-roll, you get a 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 and thus avoid gets hot.

- If you get a 1 on the re-roll then you have to take the gets hot saving roll.

Yes if you gets hot and then have a reroll.

But this is also a true statement because of the reroll rules:

- First roll, tou get a 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. You re-roll due to whatever rule(forced or by choice).

- If you get a 1 on the re-roll then you have to take the gets hot saving roll.

The reason for this is that a reroll is a new roll(technically a second roll, but I am not going to get into that and why the gets hot and rerolls rule is needed from that because it is a nightmare of oddities), and any roll of 1 gets hot.