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Hey folks! Recently had a game where I was running a Ravenwing Strike Force in conjunction with a couple of other Imperium detachments. We had a question come up in regards to the 'Strike As One' rule, though. If a unit or IC from the Ravenwing Strike Force was joined to a unit or IC from another detachment, would that combined unit come in automatically on turn 2? Example, in the game I played I had my Ravenwing Librarian join my Centurion Devastators during deployment to let them turn 2 Outflank. We played it that they get to benefit from the formation bonuses, but re-reading the rule I'm not certain we played it correctly.

Independent Characters joined to a unit count as part of that unit for all rules purposes. That would suggest that if joined to a unit from another detachment the IC would count as part of a unit that is not a unit in the Ravenwing Strike Force detachment, which has no permission to automatically arrive at the start of your second turn.

So if I were to join an IC from, say, a Space Marines CAD to a unit of Black Knights from the Strike Force, the inverse would be true, and the IC would automatically come in turn 2 with the Black Knights?

Technically, yes

woops forget bout it

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
So if I were to join an IC from, say, a Space Marines CAD to a unit of Black Knights from the Strike Force, the inverse would be true, and the IC would automatically come in turn 2 with the Black Knights?

RAW yes. It's the same with the Annihilation Strike Force. The unit gains the benefit, and since the IC is part of that unit for all rules purposes, he does as well.

That being said most tournaments houserule it to not work for the IC. As if that one little bit would tip the balance of "is 40k a good ruleset for competetive tournament play".

Special Rules
When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit. Special rules that are conferred to the unit only apply for as long as the Independent Character is with them.

What to do about it?

 koooaei wrote:
Special Rules
When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit. Special rules that are conferred to the unit only apply for as long as the Independent Character is with them.

What to do about it?

"Skyhammer Annihilation Force Dataslate" wrote:
On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation force have the Relentless special rule (...).

The Special Rule in question isn't even assigned to the unit. The SR is part of the FORMATION and merely benefits the Dev and Assault Squads. They're "targeted" by the SR, and since the IC is part of that unit when the rule triggers, it is affected by it, just like any other ongoing effect. That effect, for Dev Squads, is that they gain the Relentless SR.

Just to clarify the difference:

The rule you quoted would apply IF the following hypothetical formation was what we're talking about:


Cloudhammer Annihilation Force

Special Rules:

First the fire, then the blade
Models of Devastator Squads of this formation have the "Instant Fire" special rule. Models of Assault Squads have the "Bladewielding" special rule.

--- Extra Square Area explaining SRs ---
Instant Fire
A model with this rule gains the Relentless Special Rule on the turn it arrived from Deep Strike Reserves.

Bladewielding
A unit entirely composed of models with this rule is allowed to charge on the same turn they arrived from Deep Strike Reserves.


--> A Captain attached to the Dev Squads would lack the Relentless rule, and a Chaplain attached to the Assault Squads would prevent them from charging.

Yep. Even if it wasn't specified that "units entirely composed of models etc...". This are the rules for units in formations. IC are not units from this formations and joining them to units doesn't matter because it's stated in the rulebook that only if the rule specifically states that it applies, it does. Doesn't state in this case => follows regular rules which means that IC don't get this special rules by RAW. See Indipendent Charactes and Special Rules.

nekooni wrote:The Special Rule in question isn't even assigned to the unit. The SR is part of the FORMATION and merely benefits the Dev and Assault Squads. They're "targeted" by the SR, and since the IC is part of that unit when the rule triggers, it is affected by it, just like any other ongoing effect. That effect, for Dev Squads, is that they gain the Relentless SR.

Actually they are. Reread the datasheet legend in regard to Formations.

koooaei wrote:Yep. Even if it wasn't specified that "units entirely composed of models etc...". This are the rules for units in formations. IC are not units from this formations and joining them to units doesn't matter because it's stated in the rulebook that only if the rule specifically states that it applies, it does. Doesn't state in this case => follows regular rules which means that IC don't get this special rules by RAW. See Indipendent Charactes and Special Rules.

ICs on their own may not be units from this formation, but ICs joined to a unit are part of the unit they are in and not ever recognized as a unit on their own till they leave it.

Special Rules from a unit confer if specified like Stubborn. Stubborn does not state it confers, but gives a benefit to the unit the model is in. In other words, if the Special Rule states the unit receives this benefit, the IC receives it, too, as part of this benefit. If the Special Rule does not state the unit receives the benefit, the IC does not benefit. Another point that people forget regarding this is the next section regarding ongoing affects. If the IC is not part of the unit when a Special Rule benefits the unit, how can an IC keep receiving the benefit when it leaves?

 koooaei wrote:
Yep. Even if it wasn't specified that "units entirely composed of models etc...". This are the rules for units in formations. IC are not units from this formations and joining them to units doesn't matter because it's stated in the rulebook that only if the rule specifically states that it applies, it does. Doesn't state in this case => follows regular rules which means that IC don't get this special rules by RAW. See Indipendent Charactes and Special Rules.

Confer ! = benefit. You do not HAVE to "have" a rule in order to benefit from it.

GW faqed this
Page 159 – Ravenwing Strike Force, Restrictions
Replace this with the following:
‘All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing
special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels Character
equipped with a Space Marine bike.’

About halfway down the first page of YMDC are two 15+ page threads asking basically the same question. The long and short of it is that there is no consensus on whether or not "benefit" and "confer" as stated in the BRB mean the same thing.

ITC has ruled that attached ICs do not gain the benefits of groups to which they are attached "unless specifically stated" (and the definition of "specifically stated" is also part of the debate). The European equivalent of ITC (don't know the name) has ruled that the do gain said benefits.

If you are playing in a tournament, check with your TO. If you are playing in a casual setting, ask your opponent. If this is a pick-up game, just make sure the debate stays polite, and remember that they're only toy soldiers, and the answer only applies to one phase of one turn and probably won't make our break the whole battle.

Skuzbag wrote:
GW faqed this
Page 159 – Ravenwing Strike Force, Restrictions
Replace this with the following:
‘All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing
special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels Character
equipped with a Space Marine bike.’

This was not what was asked. Please read the thread, or at least the opening post.