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Arch Warhammer (a guy on youtube for those who haven't heard of him) has a video where he mentions that "grey knights aren't actually space marines".

Is it true??? If so, then what are they?

They are definitely space marines. They just don't have a Primarch as their gene seed was derived directly from the Emperor.

They are Technically not Space Marines. Coming from the Emperor themselves, and outside of the founding.

Basically they are on the same level as the Primarchs. However they are from after the first founding, and where largely introduced to be above the corruption of Chaos.

So like the Legio Custodes they are similar to the space marines, but removed.

They are not part of the Adeptus Astartes, but they are most definitely Space Marines.

They are probably Alpha Legionnaires

They are Space Marines on steroids.

They are like maybe space not marine. Or maybe they are not?

Functionally they are Space Marines. They are made just like Space Marines, look just like Space Marines, and have the same abilities as Space Marines. It is just that have their geneseed coming from a different source (the Emperor himself) and that they serve in a different role than Space Marines.
This is different from the Custodes, who are created by a different process than Space Marines are.
Grey Knights are not part of the Adeptus Astartes however, even if the GW site says so because of copyright reasons.

They were founded as Chapter 666, unless that's been changed. If it walks like a space marine, talks like a space marine.. then it's a space marine, all be it a chapter with an extremely focused and singular task.

They have the same organs as the Space Marines, and that is what makes a Space Marine a Space Marine.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
They are probably Alpha Legionnaires

Janus...agrees!

You are correct. Each Grey Knight is actually 5 Gretchins and two Snotlings (those two are where the eyes are supposed to be). You were not ment to discover this before the new Ork release of 2018. I am afraid you will have to die...

More seriously, they are Homo Space Marinus Astartes, but they don't have a Primarch since their geneseed was handcrafted by the Emperor or from the Emperor. They don't follow nor belong to the Adeptus Astartes since they are the Millitant chamber of the Ordo Malleus.

That's roughly along the lines of what I expected....

So does the difference in geneseed cause any major physical differences between a typical space marine and a grey knight other than the grey knights' all being psykers and incorruptible? I get that they're not each as strong as a primarch, but on a scale between SM and primarch, where does the GK sit? A fraction above the SM? Neck and Neck?

 hippyjr wrote:
That's roughly along the lines of what I expected....

So does the difference in geneseed cause any major physical differences between a typical space marine and a grey knight other than the grey knights' all being psykers and incorruptible? I get that they're not each as strong as a primarch, but on a scale between SM and primarch, where does the GK sit? A fraction above the SM? Neck and Neck?

I'd say neck and neck from a purely physical standpoint. A Grey Knight's superiority would be from the psychic abilities and their equipment.

 hippyjr wrote:
That's roughly along the lines of what I expected....

So does the difference in geneseed cause any major physical differences between a typical space marine and a grey knight other than the grey knights' all being psykers and incorruptible? I get that they're not each as strong as a primarch, but on a scale between SM and primarch, where does the GK sit? A fraction above the SM? Neck and Neck?

Well, there is differences between one Space Marine and the other too, depending on their geneseed and its flaws. But I'd say a Grey Knight is somewhat above the average Space Marine, but not much. The Space Wolves for example had no problem killing them during the Months of Shame, altough it has to be mentioned that Space Wolves were specifically designed to kill other Marines. The main difference between a Grey Knight and an average Space Marine is in the Grey Knight's psychic potential, I think. On a scale of SM to Primarch, the Grey Knights would fall somewhere between Custodes and Astartes, altough closer to Astartes. The most powerful amongst the Grey Knights could probably match the Custodes. They are nowhere near the level of a Primarch though.

 hippyjr wrote:
That's roughly along the lines of what I expected....

So does the difference in geneseed cause any major physical differences between a typical space marine and a grey knight other than the grey knights' all being psykers and incorruptible? I get that they're not each as strong as a primarch, but on a scale between SM and primarch, where does the GK sit? A fraction above the SM? Neck and Neck?

No.

And Grey Knights are psykers because all their recruits are psykers, collected from the Black Ships. The geneseed doesn't give them psychic abilities, it is special because it doesn't have any of the genetic instability of the other chapters and hasn't degraded.

Depending on the fluff you read and believe, the Grey Knights are either given their Geneseed literally from the Emperor, or metaphorically.

If it's metaphorically, they actually came from the loyalist elements of the traitor legions.

That or they're ultramarines with more PSYCHIC.

It all depends on the version, edition and writer. They are Space Marines though, this is literally spelled out in the first few sentences of the Codex.

 thegrav wrote:
They are Technically not Space Marines. Coming from the Emperor themselves, and outside of the founding.

Basically they are on the same level as the Primarchs. However they are from after the first founding, and where largely introduced to be above the corruption of Chaos.

So like the Legio Custodes they are similar to the space marines, but removed.

Primarchs were space marines, even if their creation differed to that from the 'more normal' space marines.

According to the chaos marine codex, grey knights are space marines and to be hated by the veterans of the long war.

Think of them more as brand x space marines. or a version of space marines just as Custodes, the various legion types and Primarchs are just versions.

A model T ford and formula One racing car are still "just cars".

TheWanderer wrote:
Think of them more as brand x space marines. or a version of space marines just as Custodes, the various legion types and Primarchs are just versions.

A model T ford and formula One racing car are still "just cars".

I agree about Grey Knights, but you can't really say that Custodes are Space Marines.

And if we're being precise, "Space Marines" is not an official in-universe term. It is an "idiom" that was made-up by the people of the Imperium because the Astartes reminded them of their comics where the hero was a "space marine". Therefore we should talk about Astartes/legionnary/etc.

Engrenages wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:
Think of them more as brand x space marines. or a version of space marines just as Custodes, the various legion types and Primarchs are just versions.

A model T ford and formula One racing car are still "just cars".

I agree about Grey Knights, but you can't really say that Custodes are Space Marines.

And if we're being precise, "Space Marines" is not an official in-universe term. It is an "idiom" that was made-up by the people of the Imperium because the Astartes reminded them of their comics where the hero was a "space marine". Therefore we should talk about Astartes/legionnary/etc.

I am not sure I would agree on either count.

Yes the genetic modification done to a custodies is different than that done to a traditional space marine but I would argue its only as different as that done to make a primarch or a grey knight compared to a space marine.

With regards to the naming "space marines" I am not entirely clear where the suggestion it is an idiom comes from but on face value I would happily concede that its likely that's the case but would argue the very fact that the people of the in-universe setting use that term means it is official no?

If people call you a space marine you are a space marine. if people call an apple an apple its an apple?

Grey Knights are definitely Space Marines and are definitely part of the Adeptus Astartes as Chapter 666. Whoever Arch Warhammer is, he's wrong.

It isn't just the people of the Imperium who refer to them as Space Marines, the Emperor did as well. "They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear", if that doesn't make it an official term then I don't know what does.

Also, Custodes are not Space Marines. Custodes are not born human and then modified, they are vat-grown. It is a completely different process than the creation of a Space Marine.

 Orblivion wrote:


Also, Custodes are not Space Marines. Custodes are not born human and then modified, they are vat-grown. It is a completely different process than the creation of a Space Marine.

interesting can you point me in the direction of where that's stated?

As an aside why does being vat-grown make them different per say? A vat grown human is still a human?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orblivion wrote:
"They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear".

excellent quote by the way, I had forgotten that one.

epronovost wrote:
You are correct. Each Grey Knight is actually 5 Gretchins and two Snotlings (those two are where the eyes are supposed to be). You were not ment to discover this before the new Ork release of 2018. I am afraid you will have to die...

Wearing a gigantic trench coat, no doubt?

TheWanderer wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:


Also, Custodes are not Space Marines. Custodes are not born human and then modified, they are vat-grown. It is a completely different process than the creation of a Space Marine.

interesting can you point me in the direction of where that's stated?

Rogue Trader.

Incidentally, they carried laser spears (which were lascannons) and not bolter spears (which are just bolters), and their armor included a force field generator in their hat.

 hippyjr wrote:
Arch Warhammer (a guy on youtube for those who haven't heard of him) has a video where he mentions that "grey knights aren't actually space marines".

Is it true??? If so, then what are they?

It's false. GK's are Space Marines, their gene-seed comes from the Emperor instead of a Primarch.

The Arch Warhammer guy doens't know as much as he lets on. A lot of his lore videos are read verbatim off Lexicanum. I should know because I wrote the articles he's reading from.

Hehe, geneseed... Did the emperor spank off into a petri dish to create the space marines? XD

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Hehe, geneseed... Did the emperor spank off into a petri dish to create the space marines? XD

No, he implants the geneseed personally.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Hehe, geneseed... Did the emperor spank off into a petri dish to create the space marines? XD

Basically.

And, as mentioned before, the source is wildly inaccurate. The GK are Space Marines and are part of the Adeptus Astartes. They just happen to be designed for fighting very specific threats, rather than a TAC army (in fluff). Historically, they were reserved to the Ordo Malleus of the Inquisition.