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Or buried

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_video_game_burial

kb_lock wrote:
If you ever thought that gw models were anything but children's toys, you're delusional.

There it is!

It's kid stuff, folks. Accept it and move on, and you'll be in a much better place with your hobby.


I think this is shaping up to be a solid move from GW. Only time will tell if it pays off or not, but it's good to see them trying something different.

Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.

Heck, GW mainstreaming their 40k products might even lead to something like the ratings system for videogames aimed at it. I am really interested to see how this pans out and if it ends up popular with kids, the most comparable thing i can think of like this are GI Joes, Transformers, and those other older action figures with their connected toy commercials/cartoons. Best case scenario it blows up in popularity and we get a saturday morning 40k cartoon show!

 Badablack wrote:
Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.

Heck, GW mainstreaming their 40k products might even lead to something like the ratings system for videogames aimed at it. I am really interested to see how this pans out and if it ends up popular with kids, the most comparable thing i can think of like this are GI Joes, Transformers, and those other older action figures with their connected toy commercials/cartoons. Best case scenario it blows up in popularity and we get a saturday morning 40k cartoon show!

[Cartoon episode showing Guardsmen being messily eaten by 'Nids/dismembered by Khorne Berzerkers]
Commissar: DRIVE THEM BACK, FOR THE EMPEROR!
[Fires bolt pistol, blood sprays on face]
[Transition to commercial break]
Commissar, to audience: Remember what happened to Guardsman Granger? He got messily slaughtered in battle because he failed to have a healthy breakfast today! Remember kids, start your day right with a box of crunch Cadi-O's! They're Imperi-licious! Buy some today... OR BE LABELLED A FILTHY HERETIC, TRAITOROUS SCUM!

I dunno, feels like maybe not the best idea with 40k with its present amount of grimdark.

 Badablack wrote:
Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.
......

We don't really have that whole religious moralism bit (in the UK at least) that we read about in the US. Religion is a private thing here if observed at all, so not mainstream like in the US. Declaring a love of God would loose a politician votes rather than garner them here. So while we are aware of the reaction seen in part of the US I can't say that I can remember anything similar here.

Curiously i would imagine the who slaanesh bewbs side of things being ignored while the whole WAR/GUNZ bit would be less palatable to British parents.

Yeah, I remember my mother being a bit concerned about the whole war and violence element of 40K when I was a nipper. Then she saw the amount of creativity, statistics, tactics, and fun involved and decided it wasn't something she needed to worry about.

I can't imagine a few fleshy daemonettes would have been an issue!

My mother actually got me into GW stuff by taking home a little magazine with Gorkomorka on the cover and full of model pics. I think it had rules for a Bretonnian archer vs. a Saurus as well. So cool. That was '98 (or '97?).

 gorgon wrote:

kb_lock wrote:
If you ever thought that gw models were anything but children's toys, you're delusional.

There it is!

It's kid stuff, folks. Accept it and move on, and you'll be in a much better place with your hobby.

Agreed.
Embrace the Lewis'ian approach to "childishness" and be ok with your toys. I wouldn't still be in this hobby if not for all the lovely painted toy soldiers. There is no shame in that and to try and argue that they are not toys is just silly.

While I would find it hard to direct someone of "average" means to introduce their child to the rather expensive 40k hobby, I do hope that this toy-store 40k line draws folks into the wargaming hobby in the same way that so many of us (even those who have now left 40k) were drawn into the hobby by GW in our childhoods.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Don't unsold toys and books usually get crushed and/or shredded?

Anyway, prices:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-battle-for-vedros-starter-sets-and.html

Yes.

When Books-A-Million! was crushing the D&D 4e 'red box' they wouldn't even let the staff pillage the dice before crushing the lot....

Thirty six sets of dice... just... gone....

The Auld Grump - 4e did a lot of damage to the reputation of the brand with book stores. With Essentials WotC allowed stores to destroy, rather than return, unsold product. The stores greatly prefer stripping and destroying unsold stock.

 KommissarKiln wrote:

[Cartoon episode showing Guardsmen being messily eaten by 'Nids/dismembered by Khorne Berzerkers]
Commissar: DRIVE THEM BACK, FOR THE EMPEROR!
[Fires bolt pistol, blood sprays on face]
[Transition to commercial break]
Commissar, to audience: Remember what happened to Guardsman Granger? He got messily slaughtered in battle because he failed to have a healthy breakfast today! Remember kids, start your day right with a box of crunch Cadi-O's! They're Imperi-licious! Buy some today... OR BE LABELLED A FILTHY HERETIC, TRAITOROUS SCUM!

I dunno, feels like maybe not the best idea with 40k with its present amount of grimdark.

Rambo and Mortal Kombat got cartoon adaptations. Don't underestimate the ability of executives to completely misinterpret the material.

 Badablack wrote:
Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.

Bet they stock plenty of model tanks, fighters and guns though!

Wholesome fun for the whole family!

DarkSoldier wrote:

 KommissarKiln wrote:

[Cartoon episode showing Guardsmen being messily eaten by 'Nids/dismembered by Khorne Berzerkers]
Commissar: DRIVE THEM BACK, FOR THE EMPEROR!
[Fires bolt pistol, blood sprays on face]
[Transition to commercial break]
Commissar, to audience: Remember what happened to Guardsman Granger? He got messily slaughtered in battle because he failed to have a healthy breakfast today! Remember kids, start your day right with a box of crunch Cadi-O's! They're Imperi-licious! Buy some today... OR BE LABELLED A FILTHY HERETIC, TRAITOROUS SCUM!

I dunno, feels like maybe not the best idea with 40k with its present amount of grimdark.

Rambo and Mortal Kombat got cartoon adaptations. Don't underestimate the ability of executives to completely misinterpret the material.

AND RoboCop and the hyper violent comic book Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And The Toxic Avenger. They also had toy lines.

Aliens and The Terminator both got a toy line.

Man, the 80s and 90s were great.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.

Bet they stock plenty of model tanks, fighters and guns though!

Wholesome fun for the whole family!

I am tired of this ridiculous argument and cheap swipes at people because of their religion.
It is because of the "badness" of the deed multiplied by the probability of it happening. Everybody agrees violence is bad, much worse than sex. Chance that playing with toy tanks etc. makes my kids into violent sociopaths is low. While not anywhere near as bad as murdering somebody, lots of people make terrible choices about sex with lifelong consequences, especially when they are young. Relative chance that my kids make a big life altering mistake tied up with sex is high ( getting somebody pregnant, getting an STD, photos you can't delete, etc. etc.) I believe that rampant sexualization of every aspect and corner of society is far more likely to push my kids over a low threshold threat line than toy tanks, military aircraft, etc. are to promote actual real world violence. I like to think there's are lots of people who agree.

In summary, I don't want my kids exposed to or playing with nude or sexualized models, but I don't mind them playing with toy tanks (even though I abhor rw violence), because it is much more likely they make a life changing mistake related to sex than related to tanks. If you think that is contradictory, you don't understand probability or lack life experience.

Furthermore, after taking a cheap swipe at people that have different standards, the solution is always what? To get our priorities straight and have kids(or adults) start playing games about fictional sex instead of games about fictional violence? Prodos would love to hear your ideas about the former.

 Gallahad wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.

Bet they stock plenty of model tanks, fighters and guns though!

Wholesome fun for the whole family!

I am tired of this ridiculous argument and cheap swipes at people because of their religion.
It is because of the "badness" of the deed multiplied by the probability of it happening. Everybody agrees violence is bad, much worse than sex. Chance that playing with toy tanks etc. makes my kids into violent sociopaths is low. While not anywhere near as bad as murdering somebody, lots of people make terrible choices about sex with lifelong consequences, especially when they are young. Relative chance that my kids make a big life altering mistake tied up with sex is high ( getting somebody pregnant, getting an STD, photos you can't delete, etc. etc.) I believe that rampant sexualization of every aspect and corner of society is far more likely to push my kids over a low threshold threat line than toy tanks, military aircraft, etc. are to promote actual real world violence. I like to think there's are lots of people who agree.

In summary, I don't want my kids exposed to or playing with nude or sexualized models, but I don't mind them playing with toy tanks (even though I abhor rw violence), because it is much more likely they make a life changing mistake related to sex than related to tanks. If you think that is contradictory, you don't understand probability or lack life experience.

I doubt having Slaaneshi models will turn the children into orgy participants, and as long as they have info of contraceptives and everyone' is consenting, who cares if they are? Tanks are designed for war, and the chances that a toy version will turn the children into war criminals is fairly low. In that same spirit, a daemonette model is unlikely to turn the children towards "unwholesome" things. We really need to stop demonizing sex as if it's the greatest threat to our existence.

 Gallahad wrote:

Furthermore, after taking a cheap swipe at people that have different standards, the solution is always what? To get our priorities straight and have kids(or adults) start playing games about fictional sex instead of games about fictional violence? Prodos would love to hear your ideas about the former.

Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?

Responsible parenting?!?!?! Never going to happen in the U.S. where many parents expect the schools to teach their children morality.

Angry fungus cares not for your puny sexual differentiation!

Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?

Skipping the arguement, but commenting on this statement:

That's pretty tough to actually do until a certain age. Santa Claus, fairy tales, anything on TV, and most of the books they read are very real to young children. Be pretty damn boring if you end every story with "and now lets discuss why the story we just read isn't real".

Let kids have their fun. They'll have to deal with reality soon enough anyway.

I have to agree that the folks poking fun at religious folks are being both generalizing and insulting.

I was raised by very religious American parents and they were equally protective of how we were exposed to sex and violence as young kids. I plan to treat my kids similarly.

 monders wrote:


AND RoboCop and the hyper violent comic book Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And The Toxic Avenger. They also had toy lines.

Aliens and The Terminator both got a toy line.

Man, the 80s and 90s were great.

That's a good point, but I think there are two separate situations here. Its not at all uncommon for an IP to have both an adult and child version. TMNT and Robocop is a good example of this. Most kids who whatched any of the TV versions of TMNT had no idea about the comics and kids could play with robocop toys and watch the cartoon without seeing the movie.

However, the Terminator and Aliens toys are certainly a good example of adult-only IP with toy lines. Very much of my generation. I remember being baffled how my friends (Young elementary age) had seen these movies and had the toys based on R rated movies. I had TMNT and GI Joe, but both of those were based on heavily sanitized TV cartoons.

 mikhaila wrote:
Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?

Skipping the arguement, but commenting on this statement:

That's pretty tough to actually do until a certain age. Santa Claus, fairy tales, anything on TV, and most of the books they read are very real to young children. Be pretty damn boring if you end every story with "and now lets discuss why the story we just read isn't real".

Let kids have their fun. They'll have to deal with reality soon enough anyway.

I'm not saying we need to tell the kids that Santa isn't real. I might be bitter but I'm not a Grinch. The statement was in response to Galahad's comment: "...get our priorities straight and have kids(or adults) start playing games about fictional sex instead of games about fictional violence?"

If we're dealing with mature themes such as sex or violence, a sitdown and discussion might benefit everyone involved, an acknowledgement that there is a difference between reality and fantasy. As they mature, deepen the gap between the 2. I got into the hobby at 10, and I believe many others did too, and by then that distinction had been made.

I doubt having Slaaneshi models will turn the children into orgy participants, and as long as they have info of contraceptives and everyone' is consenting, who cares if they are? Tanks are designed for war, and the chances that a toy version will turn the children into war criminals is fairly low. In that same spirit, a daemonette model is unlikely to turn the children towards "unwholesome" things. We really need to stop demonizing sex as if it's the greatest threat to our existence.

Amen (Praise Slaanesh?) I'm tired of the thought that sex should be harder to talk about and explain than mass genocide.

Didn't mean to start a religious argument, but conservative christian run businesses and organizations not stocking/allowing certain things is usually less about the religion itself and more the committees that run them being full of opinionated old buttheads pushing their own particular beliefs over everything else.

Have the contents of the various boxes been posted anywhere?

 Swara wrote:

Amen (Praise Slaanesh?) I'm tired of the thought that sex should be harder to talk about and explain than mass genocide.

I mostly agree with you, but there is a difference. As an example, 5 year olds can (and inevitably do) play at low-level and controlled violence without notable negative consequences and this is even without "playing" war. Wrestling, most team sports, imitating comic book heroes, etc.

However, 5 year olds cannot play at sex.

That is not in any way to say that sex is more harmful than violence or to justify various taboo's, but the two are not equivocal or necessarily age-appropriate at the same ages or to the same degrees.

 RFHolloway wrote:
Or buried

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_video_game_burial

E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial for the Atari was the worst piece of gak ever made. You couldn't walk through 2 screens without getting caught. I still have no idea how you were supposed to play that fething game.

 Gallahad wrote:

In summary, I don't want my kids exposed to or playing with nude or sexualized models, but I don't mind them playing with toy tanks (even though I abhor rw violence), because it is much more likely they make a life changing mistake related to sex than related to tanks. If you think that is contradictory, you don't understand probability or lack life experience.

Can you see how relating nude models to potential sexual behavior is different than equating models of tanks to tank-related behavior? In the former instance, You've equated nudity with something commonly associated with it, namely sexuality. In the latter you've equated tanks with tanks. Either you'd have to be worried about raising potential nudists, or you'd have to admit that tanks have a common association with violence to be consistent. I'd go further to say that when speaking about probabilities, roughly 25% of US high school students report having been involved in physical violence, contrasted with roughly 5% reporting having sex before age 13 (YRBS).

I think you're absolutely right that there are things that parents can and should do to ensure that their children don't receive unhealthy cultural messages. I just don't think it is realistic to say that violence is somehow less of a problem than poor sexual choices, or that one has fewer consequences long-term.

If you wish to discuss this particular tangent there is currently a thread in the discussions board.

Let's get back to the actual topic now thank you.

My good lady is hoping that this is successful enough for GW to spin off a line for young gamers - more orks, less marines.

She entered gaming via HeroQuest, at a very young age.

I can agree, having a gateway drug game might be something that will bring in, and hold, gamers from a very young age.

The Auld Grump, molding little minds, because the world needs more moldy little minds....

 mikhaila wrote:
Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?

Skipping the arguement, but commenting on this statement:

That's pretty tough to actually do until a certain age. Santa Claus, fairy tales, anything on TV, and most of the books they read are very real to young children. Be pretty damn boring if you end every story with "and now lets discuss why the story we just read isn't real".

Let kids have their fun. They'll have to deal with reality soon enough anyway.

Well said.

For the bargain hunters out there. The prices so far don't seem terrible, but I'm thinking that being sold at more outlets may make for may more chances to get them on sale.

Gosh, I'm genuinely surprised by this move from GW. I sure hope it is successful. I'd love a chance to pick up some more Khorne Berserker clones, and even some old Plague Marine clones.

Not my models.