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Skarbrand is still a MC no LoW no nothing. Still a crap, thanks GW for making me not to give you my money. All other sheets still the same. All formations are crap apart from khorne ones which could be playable. The one with 3 grinders is the only we don't know. So what is left are traits relics and powers, and the decurion which looks interesting.

So is this just Daemons formations or is it a new book?

The Khprne and Nurgle seem interesting. Same with the Soul Grinder Formation. May get it, already have two

Sadly you need one of the all troop formations, 1 GD or prince and 1 auxillory which is one of the more special unit formations.

So it looks like 2k minimum to run the decurion.

nagash42 wrote:
Sadly you need one of the all troop formations, 1 GD or prince and 1 auxillory which is one of the more special unit formations.

So it looks like 2k minimum to run the decurion.

...wut? No, DP is entirely optional. And I have the feeling there's going to be a pretty cheap nurgle list, using tons of MSU nurgling squads and the Grinder Formation.

 Swampmist wrote:

nagash42 wrote:
Sadly you need one of the all troop formations, 1 GD or prince and 1 auxillory which is one of the more special unit formations.

So it looks like 2k minimum to run the decurion.

...wut? No, DP is entirely optional. And I have the feeling there's going to be a pretty cheap nurgle list, using tons of MSU nurgling squads and the Grinder Formation.

Where is information from ? I did not read inforamtion on what the decurion needs to consist of...I was hoping for the Nurgle formation with lots of nurgel beats and one big dronestar with Herold and FnP...

The Tzeentch ones are... ok. For the Troops one you can do 3 units of Horrors, 3 Exalted Flamers, and 3 units of Flamers and get a good mix. The Screamer one is basically as much MSU as you can do. Unfortunately so expensive that they'll be the bulk of your army...

The Slaanesh power that gives a unit furious charge, zealot and rage makes Seekers even more beastly.

A 10-man unit of seekers with the blessing will kill 5 TWC on the charge with average rolls- 2 and a half if they have storm-shields.

So I need 60 Daemonettes costing 540 pts for the first formation and 30 Seekers for 360 pts in the second, because sacred numbers...LOL. I love how they remember them when is least convenient to have. Re-rolling to hit on everything within 12" with LOB is strong, but the other two loci were already pointless, anyway. With -1 WS and I...really? They couldn't just give Slaanesh grenades again, or run+charge, or +3" to charge, or Hit & Run? All my units are already at minimum I5 and WS5. I have Fiends that already reduce enemy by -5 I. Sigh...when would I every need that outside of fighting Eldar, Dark Eldar, or Halequins. Hey, if I'm fighting them how about a very fluffy Preferred Enemy - All Eldar. Automatically running 6" is better but why can't Daemonettes, Fiends, or my Slow KOS get it?

So, Greater daemons get nothing?!!!

Iuchiban wrote:


Models that are able to purchase Rewards, can purchase an (and only one) Artifact as well for the point cost.

Daemon Decurión is:
Basic 1+
Command:0-4
Aux: 1+

Basic: Murderhorde, Warpflame host, Tallyband, Flayertroupe
Command: 1 Daemon Lord (Great Daemons or DP), Infernal Tetrad
Aux: The rest of the formations

So, basically you can't run all for Gods with this Formation, due to costs.

The Slaanesh formations are wicked good, especially the ability to grant the Exalted Locus of '****-you!' to multiple units.

The Tzeentch ones, eh, not impressed...
- Horrors are still boned and just don't work in any way like they're supposed to. It does give a slight boost to Flickering Fire, as with the Exalted Locus you now effectively get +2S, making all your shots S7!
I guess for the Horrors, you could just run the min sized 11 strong unit, and use them to open up transports. 2D6/S7 shots if they're in range of the formation's Tzherald will make it a bit easier to munch through mass Rhino/Razorback spam Gladius companies.
- Flamers can be kept cheap with min-sized 3 gribbly squads and go back to Flamer bombing out of Deep Strikes. (besides, with everyone running MSU nowadays, my large squads of 9 have been getting worse and worse!)
- Exalteds can set up shop either with Horrors, or else just on their own and shoot down av12+.

The Screamer/Chariot formation though is hilariously bad... Great, Chariots can slash attack just like Screamers! Oh, but they're Warpflame hits, and likely to only ever kill at best 2-3 guys, so enjoy handing out FnP like candy!

Still overall, Tzeentch continues to be the worst of the Gods, only now the gap is even more obvious than it already was.

If this is what we get for Daemons who are arguably the most loved of the Chaos factions, I'm setting my bar exceptionally low for what the eventual Thousand Sons release is going to be...

Experiment 626 wrote:
The Slaanesh formations are wicked good, especially the ability to grant the Exalted Locus of '****-you!' to multiple units.

The Tzeentch ones, eh, not impressed...
- Horrors are still boned and just don't work in any way like they're supposed to. It does give a slight boost to Flickering Fire, as with the Exalted Locus you now effectively get +2S, making all your shots S7!
I guess for the Horrors, you could just run the min sized 11 strong unit, and use them to open up transports. 2D6/S7 shots if they're in range of the formation's Tzherald will make it a bit easier to munch through mass Rhino/Razorback spam Gladius companies.
- Flamers can be kept cheap with min-sized 3 gribbly squads and go back to Flamer bombing out of Deep Strikes. (besides, with everyone running MSU nowadays, my large squads of 9 have been getting worse and worse!)
- Exalteds can set up shop either with Horrors, or else just on their own and shoot down av12+.

The Screamer/Chariot formation though is hilariously bad... Great, Chariots can slash attack just like Screamers! Oh, but they're Warpflame hits, and likely to only ever kill at best 2-3 guys, so enjoy handing out FnP like candy!

Still overall, Tzeentch continues to be the worst of the Gods, only now the gap is even more obvious than it already was.

If this is what we get for Daemons who are arguably the most loved of the Chaos factions, I'm setting my bar exceptionally low for what the eventual Thousand Sons release is going to be...

While I certainly agree it's not perfect, I would argue Tzeentch got some of the best relics, and the D power still seems pretty good tbh.

Experiment 626 wrote:
The Slaanesh formations are wicked good, especially the ability to grant the Exalted Locus of '****-you!' to multiple units.

The Tzeentch ones, eh, not impressed...
- Horrors are still boned and just don't work in any way like they're supposed to. It does give a slight boost to Flickering Fire, as with the Exalted Locus you now effectively get +2S, making all your shots S7!
I guess for the Horrors, you could just run the min sized 11 strong unit, and use them to open up transports. 2D6/S7 shots if they're in range of the formation's Tzherald will make it a bit easier to munch through mass Rhino/Razorback spam Gladius companies.
- Flamers can be kept cheap with min-sized 3 gribbly squads and go back to Flamer bombing out of Deep Strikes. (besides, with everyone running MSU nowadays, my large squads of 9 have been getting worse and worse!)
- Exalteds can set up shop either with Horrors, or else just on their own and shoot down av12+.



If this is what we get for Daemons who are arguably the most loved of the Chaos factions, I'm setting my bar exceptionally low for what the eventual Thousand Sons release is going to be...

Exalted Flamers in that formation get s10 do they not? That's rather cool

Red_Drake wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
The Slaanesh formations are wicked good, especially the ability to grant the Exalted Locus of '****-you!' to multiple units.

The Tzeentch ones, eh, not impressed...
- Horrors are still boned and just don't work in any way like they're supposed to. It does give a slight boost to Flickering Fire, as with the Exalted Locus you now effectively get +2S, making all your shots S7!
I guess for the Horrors, you could just run the min sized 11 strong unit, and use them to open up transports. 2D6/S7 shots if they're in range of the formation's Tzherald will make it a bit easier to munch through mass Rhino/Razorback spam Gladius companies.
- Flamers can be kept cheap with min-sized 3 gribbly squads and go back to Flamer bombing out of Deep Strikes. (besides, with everyone running MSU nowadays, my large squads of 9 have been getting worse and worse!)
- Exalteds can set up shop either with Horrors, or else just on their own and shoot down av12+.



If this is what we get for Daemons who are arguably the most loved of the Chaos factions, I'm setting my bar exceptionally low for what the eventual Thousand Sons release is going to be...

Exalted Flamers in that formation get s10 do they not? That's rather cool

thatm or they become mini Helldrakes. Is pretty good sounding honestly.

Too bad the foot exalted flamer can't take any sort of mobility option or rewards and is stuck with heavy weapons

Who wrote these artifacts? Why are there even any AP3 weapons listed? We have Etherblades.

Lazy Claw: (10 pts) a single attack counts as: +2S, AP2, Rending, and Specialist.

- You can pay 10 pts for an AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative.
- So why pay 10 pts for a single +2S/AP2/Rending attack?
- All Slaaneshi Daemons have rending anyway.


Forbidden Gem: 15 pts in a challenge, the enemy rolls 3D6 - LD.

- The enemy suffers a penalty to WS and I equal to the result [to a minimum 1].
- Excellent for mitigating Slaaneshi characters lacking in defensive wargear and bonuses.


Agony whip: 15 pts: AP5/Melee/Re-roll to wound.

- It’s an S: user and AP5 weapon so how it’s not going to wound anyone.
- Unless you roll a Rend due to the Slaanesh Daemon Rending rule.
- Better to take a +1S/AP2 Greater Etherblade for 5 more point and simply kill them.
- Than spend 15 pts to try and stop them from attacking.
- Could be worth it on a KOS or MOS/DP in a challenge.


Mark of excess: 15 pts + attack, after killing a monster or Character.

- Challenge out a weak upgrade character for the bonus.
- Needs clarification as to whether the rule is cumulative or not.


Soul Stealer: 20 pts to recover a wound for each enemy killed.

- Excellent on a KOS or MOS/DP as they as S6/AP2/Rending already.
- Nothing says you have to use the sword to gain its benefits.
- Needs clarification as to whether it’s one recovered wound per model slain.
- Or whether they simply recover one wound per combat phase that they killed a model.


Silver Shard: 30 pts for a AP3, +2 attack weapon.

- A Herald can take already an Etherblade and a Greater Etherblade for 30 pts, and get +1S, +1A and AP2 at initiative.
- While MC are AP2 anyway, are +2 S6/AP2 attacks worth 30 pts?

 Swampmist wrote:

While I certainly agree it's not perfect, I would argue Tzeentch got some of the best relics, and the D power still seems pretty good tbh.

I think the Slaany & Nurgle ones are better honestly... Too many of Tzeentch ones are still combat based, and only DP's (who are still borderline unplayable) will really benefit from them.
The LoC has no reason to EVER trade out his Boomstick, because S8 for only 10pts is just too good an option not to take! (ID anything T4 and bypass FnP? Yes please!)

Tzheralds meanwhile want to avoid combat like the damn plague, or else can take a basic ap2 ccw which will serve them better.
The only thing I can ever really see a Tzherald taking is the Paradox, and that's purely for the psychic boost. Or else the 'Loremaster of Tzeentch' book for a Disc Herald.

Exalted Flamers could have *really* benefited from relics, but GW decided in their infinite stupidity to not bother fixing them and even allowing them to take basic Gifts!


The Str.D power depends entirely on the casting cost. If it's WC2, then depending on who gets it, (or just take the Loremaster relic on a Disc Tzherald), then it'll be something you can occasionally blow 4-5 WC dice on attempting.
If it's WC3 however, it can get in line alongside all the Summoning powers, which people will probably continue to spam instead.

Can anyone tell me anything about the new Space Wolves formations?

Anything?

 Garrlor wrote:
Can anyone tell me anything about the new Space Wolves formations?

Anything?

there's a thread for that m8

Does anyone have a picture of the Daemon Decurion page?

So, after calming down and looking at the rules again. Its not so bad for Mono-Slaanesh. I was already running 40 Daemonettes in two 20 girl strong squads, and 15 Seekers in one squad, and 4 heralds. To maximize the Locus benefits. Since the locus effects all units with 12" now I just have to break the squads up and add 35 more models.

The problem is the Heralds. It doesn't look like you can take more than one per formation, and their not and option under the Command formation apparently. So you have 2 heralds, and one has to give up her rewards for the Grimoire. I suppose I could take a CAD for up to 4 more heralds but then that's another 20 Daemonettes. Hmmmm....


Still, at least Chaos Daemons are no longer stagnant. To the Tactics thread!

I could actually see an artillery tzneetch army being ok with the decurion. The core gets lots of good shooting, and the new disc relic looks to make reserves much simply for flamer drops. Then take a grinder formation.

I hope there are other Aux choices that are just units, like most armies have. Being forced to take the Soul Grinder formation makes it gak, but if you could just take a Core and like one unit of Furies or something then it's cool.

 Swampmist wrote:
I could actually see an artillery tzneetch army being ok with the decurion. The core gets lots of good shooting, and the new disc relic looks to make reserves much simply for flamer drops. Then take a grinder formation.

You still need to add in a CAD to get some added Tzheralds to fuel the bulk of the shooting though... Exalts are basically static platforms due to their shots all being 'Heavy', while Horrors are only BS3 which makes all those Witchfires dreadful for their casting cost.

Flamer bombs are definitely back it seems.

Tzeentch still won't be able to hang with the other 7.5 stuff. The only lists that are potentially considering Tzeentch a threat would be Razorback based Gladius, since the Horrors can (hopefully) set up shop within range of the Tzherald and then try to pop off S7 Flickering Fires on 2 dice.
However, if there's a Librarius Conclave around, they can probably help neuter it.

I think what hurts the most is that Tzeentch got literally next to nothing to help boost our casting abilities, yet Marines of all flavours keep getting formations that make WC harnessing a whole lot better!
So much for being the supposedly psychic dominance army...

It's super frustrating that they updated the demons book with new relics powers and traits, but didn't address the outdated daemon of tzeentch rule

Red_Drake wrote:
It's super frustrating that they updated the demons book with new relics powers and traits, but didn't address the outdated daemon of tzeentch rule

We got exactly the same treatment that Guard got in the Tau campaign books.

This is nothing more than a cheap Band-Aid, likely so that GW can just ignore us entirely until 8th ed or whatever Age of Sicarius styled BS they decide to pull.

We still don't know what the new Warlord Trait are yet. Might be some good Tzeentch boosts there. I no I'm hoping for some reserve manipulation ability. That said we don't know all the formation restrictions either, there could be some hidden costs involved like must take instruments and standards.

Arrrgh. I just remembered we can still only take half of your powers from the gods lore. So even with ML3 you still only have 1-2 shot at getting the: Rage, Furious Charge, Zealot power.

You can probably guess some of the Warlord Traits by looking at the set ones on the Special Characters. For instance, Tzeentch will probably still have reroll Warp Storm because Fateweaver has that one.

Depending on the exact wording the Oracle Disc could usher in the age of the turn 1 Heldrake!

Cilithan

* Oracle disc: Disc of Tzeentch. At the beginning of your turn choose a unit in Reserves. That unit enters the game automatically. 35 points.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:
It's super frustrating that they updated the demons book with new relics powers and traits, but didn't address the outdated daemon of tzeentch rule

We got exactly the same treatment that Guard got in the Tau campaign books.

This is nothing more than a cheap Band-Aid, likely so that GW can just ignore us entirely until 8th ed or whatever Age of Sicarius styled BS they decide to pull.

You can not compare the demons update to the am update. The cadia detachment is 100% overpriced and 90% useless. Demons get some nice things.