Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who the hell owns that many Daemons?

I could probably do the Daemonette one if they are min-sized units, but that's it.

It's juuust doable for Nurgle players as well since I, being one, have enough Nurglings and Plaguebearers combined to meet the minimum if I buy a few more boxes. 3 Nurgling swarms = 1 Troop.

Man this is frustrating. Every list I come up with is just so point inefficient. I have to take 60 daemonettes minimum in six units. But I can only get 1 Herald in the formation. Even with the 12" bubble effect of the loci of beguilement, they won't do much. They won't all ever be in range of the loci, and 10 girl squads of Daemonettes are not nearly as effective as 20 in combat. They just could let the Heralds loci effect the entire formation? I could take a CAD for 3-4 more heralds but then I need 2 additional daemonette squads costing 180 pts, giving me a total of 80 daemonettes. Then I can't efficiently maximize their AP2 killing potential either. I used to run Alluresses with Greater Etherblades in 20X squads. I just don't see using the formation as being worth it. The -1WS/I is just so meh. Who do we need that against? The Eldar Aspect warrior formation no one takes?

The Seeker/Chariot formation has the same efficiency problem I have to run them in units of 5 when 15 would be best to ensure they reach combat and break face. Again the bubble loci effects are nice but they won't all be in range to get it. To be honest the +6" run boost does nothing as they were already fast enough. Would it have killed them to come up with something actually useful? What does +6" flat out do for chariots exactly? They still suck regardless.

It also doesn't help that they put to Daemonettes and Seeker ie the good units in separate formation with the bad units: Fiends and Chariots. That no one takes. Khorne is better in that regard as their troop, elite and fast attack choices are all in one formation.

The Daemonic Incursion rules are good, really good. But we'll never get to use these formation effectively under 2250 pts. Think about what imperial armies can take at those point levels.

 Sersi wrote:
Man this is frustrating. Every list I come up with is just so point inefficient.

Check my post above. I think the nurgle dronestar is NOT point inefficient. I also think the Khorne standard list with 8*5 dogs with +1 attack and Loci for everyone in 12 inch (and the other benefits) is not bad.

 Sersi wrote:
Man this is frustrating. Every list I come up with is just so point inefficient.

Why not try a Warpflame host. Making one big bomb horror squad. Adding all exalted flamers and heralds in. Then DS through oracle disc. Then bomb the s&@*^t out of everything. Disc probably lets you DS first turn. Also if grinder formation the decurion would be easier to fit.

Exalted Flamers have heavy weapons

So it actually works in 1850 Points:

Kairos
3 Heralds of tzeentch with Discs, all Psi level 3 and 1 with Grimoire
2*3 Nurglings
9 Screamer

+

Herald of Nurgle
6 Nurgle Beasts
8 Drones with champ and ID

1848 points

The screamerstar is good, no question about that. 15 psi levels are not perfect,, but ok.

Main benefit here: Beasts of Nurgle with FnP because of the Loci and drones with + 3 attacks on a charge. Might be worth a try

Melionodr wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
Man this is frustrating. Every list I come up with is just so point inefficient.

Check my post above. I think the nurgle dronestar is NOT point inefficient. I also think the Khorne standard list with 8*5 dogs with +1 attack and Loci for everyone in 12 inch (and the other benefits) is not bad.

I appreciate that but I play Mono-Slaanesh. That said all those dogs will not be in range of that single loci.

I was mostly referring to Daemonic Incursion decurion being bad. Some of the sub formations are alright taken with a CAD. Like you did above. Not the Slaaneshi ones mind you. But the only good thing about our decurion are the main bonuses. Re-roll instability, Warp Storm mitigation and Daemonic corruption. If your not going all in there's not much point to taking the formations as who need or wants to spam that duplicate units?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
Man this is frustrating. Every list I come up with is just so point inefficient.

Why not try a Warpflame host. Making one big bomb horror squad. Adding all exalted flamers and heralds in. Then DS through oracle disc. Then bomb the s&@*^t out of everything. Disc probably lets you DS first turn. Also if grinder formation the decurion would be easier to fit.

I don't play Tzeentch. But I could probably get 30 seekers for a similar price to that Soul grinder formation.

I'm thinking Warpflame Host could be fun. Use it as a Summoning/Flickering Fire spam.

Here's what I'm thinking for it.

Warpflame Host
Tzerald ML3 with relic Disc and +1 str to powers loci.
6x 11 Horrors
3x 3 Flamers

Daemons CAD
Fateweaver
3x Tzerald ML3. One has exalted gift for Portal.
2x 11 Horrors

Fortification
Skyshield Landing Pad
WC - 33 if I counted correctly.

Fateweaver blasts that str d shot around.
Horrors from formation roll on Tzeentch powers, Heralds and Horrors from CAD roll on Tzeentch and Maleificent powers.

Shot and summon. Could be fun. Could be long and tedious to roll for powers.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who the hell owns that many Daemons?

I could probably do the Daemonette one if they are min-sized units, but that's it.

I have enough tzeentch to run the Warpflame Host

Fateweaver knows all of Ts powers...so yeah, that is a funny thing.

But I would try to get get 9 Screamers in for the screamerstar, to have at least one resistant melee unit.

And well...I will actually NEVER own 88 Horrors ;-)

Recently returned player here, I'm confused about how this supplement works with the standard Chaos Daemon codex. Do I pick only one(which means I can't use hell forge artifacts and psychic powers form both ) or does this new release just adds extra stuff to the old codex ? Or is this the new edition and the old codex is not valid anymore?
thanks in advance,

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
Recently returned player here, I'm confused about how this supplement works with the standard Chaos Daemon codex. Do I pick only one(which means I can't use hell forge artifacts and psychic powers form both ) or does this new release just adds extra stuff to the old codex ? Or is this the new edition and the old codex is not valid anymore?
thanks in advance,

This is all extra stuff to add to the current codex. Nothing is getting replaced

For a unit to be in range, only one model needs to be.

That is actually a LOT of board coverage...

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
For a unit to be in range, only one model needs to be.

That is actually a LOT of board coverage...

Was just going to post this. The wording should just let the entire unit benefit as long as one model of that unit is in range.

If the herald is in a bastion, do you measure from the bastion for the loci, or does it not work like embarked in vehicles?

EricBasser wrote:
I'm thinking Warpflame Host could be fun. Use it as a Summoning/Flickering Fire spam.

Here's what I'm thinking for it.

Warpflame Host
Tzerald ML3 with relic Disc and +1 str to powers loci.
6x 11 Horrors
3x 3 Flamers

Daemons CAD
Fateweaver
3x Tzerald ML3. One has exalted gift for Portal.
2x 11 Horrors

Fortification
Skyshield Landing Pad
WC - 33 if I counted correctly.

Fateweaver blasts that str d shot around.
Horrors from formation roll on Tzeentch powers, Heralds and Horrors from CAD roll on Tzeentch and Maleificent powers.

Shot and summon. Could be fun. Could be long and tedious to roll for powers.

It's nowhere near as good as it looks on paper, since the majority of your Flickering Fires are only BS3. Plus, those Horrors will bleed a WC point each with only 2 casualties per unit, thereby drastically limiting how many FF's you can viably throw out per turn.
If you start tossing around Prescience to boost the hit rate of your Witchfires, you suddenly find yourself short on dice for fueling said Witchfires.

The Tzeentch one is probably best off running only 1-2 units of Horrors, and taking a bunch of min-sized Flamer bombs + Exalted Flamers... And even then, the Exalts are a PITA to use, since they lack Relentless when on foot and yet are saddled with Heavy type weapons.

I feel like a lot of the feasibility of using the decurion at all depends on the exact terms of the soul grinder formation. Dying to see it,

I disagree. I believe the seeker/chariots to be also powerful. I use in my most games a 20 seeker squad with two heralds. And it is powerful indeed. But this, the exalted chariots super powerful in attacks, though quite made of glass. Definitely will play test most of these in order to have a clear opinion.

The thing is, Seekers are great, but they only survive if you put them in a huge group and keep them alive with invisibility or grimoire. If you have a bunch of tiny groups, suddenly you have much more trouble. The only solution I can think of with having to be in a bunch of small groups is auras (i.e., have a central unit with 1-2 Heralds casting cursed earth and maybe also shrounding).

Well, I could see a big group of Seekers+Herald paired with small groups and Seeker Chariots. The main point that held Seeker Chariots back is the fact that they took a heavy support slot and putting them into a Cavalcade just makes no sense. But having 3 or so running over the board is quite a nice thing.

EricBasser wrote:
If the herald is in a bastion, do you measure from the bastion for the loci, or does it not work like embarked in vehicles?

If it works similarly to Tyranid synapse/spore cloud it should be measured from the Bastion.

I know that the auxilary formations are expensive, but most decrion detachments have 1-2 auxilaries that are a single model (suc as engine of war, wraith engine, etc.).
My favorite idea is a 40 flesh hounds murderpack with juggerherald+S on 6 weapon, plus fateweaver and belakor.

Cinderspirit wrote:
Well, I could see a big group of Seekers+Herald paired with small groups and Seeker Chariots. The main point that held Seeker Chariots back is the fact that they took a heavy support slot and putting them into a Cavalcade just makes no sense. But having 3 or so running over the board is quite a nice thing.

The only downside to the Slaanesh auxiliary formation is that those Chariots are such a massive PITA to transport!
If I was to do a Slaanesh one, it would easily be 1 big unit of Seekers + Herald, and then solo Chariots to fill out the rest of the required units. Even the super chariot is quite cheap for what it can achieve on the charge.

It's too bad that Tzeentch formations are so heinously bad... Sure you can run a bunch of Exalted Flamers, but it's just too static, and they're not difficult at all to remove. (easier than Mutilators).

The auxiliary formation for Tzeentch is just pure garbage. Will be interesting to see if they add the Warpflame rule to the Screamer slash attacks, as that would add an extra level of hilariously unnecessary nerfing to the already weakest God!

How about Murderhorde + Gorethunder Battery, putting the 2 Heralds in one big group of Flesh Hounds. So we would get Hounds with 5 Attacks, Rage and Hatred. Should be still possible to fit in something like BeLakor in a 1850+ points game.

Edit: I have to agree on the Chariots. What I am doing with mine is magnetizing the Daemonette which is wielding the whips around. That makes it a bit easier.

I think gw is testing the waters with these massive formations. They know that most gamers have half these models. I believe they're trying to see if they can get us to buy the other half. Imagine if we all bought an additional 3-4 boxes of troops.

Not gonna lie i was interested in this, so dissapointed.

the new artefacts looks nice and interesting thought.

The only formations that i find worth it as a Khorne player is the Gorethunder, and then i fail to see how an Herald is really relevant to the role the formation as to play..

Also dissapointed that the Gorethunder isn't Apocalyptic barrage X, where X is the number of skull cannon still on the table.

At least the shot is AP3...

Long shot, but would it change things if Exalted Flamers were Relentless per a faq/Errata?

I am bringing at least one for the formation

Interested to see the traits and Oracle Disc wording.

Has anyone considered running 9 exalted flamers? That a TON of s10 ap2 shooting, or s6(?) ap3 shooting from templates. Peopel are bitching about mobility but you could always deepstrike some of them. Seems like a great anti tank formation. Aren't the flamers only 50 pts?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Has anyone considered running 9 exalted flamers? That a TON of s10 ap2 shooting, or s6(?) ap3 shooting from templates. Peopel are bitching about mobility but you could always deepstrike some of them. Seems like a great anti tank formation. Aren't the flamers only 50 pts?

Deep Striking doesn't work because the weapons are heavy. No one minds hoofing it, they mind having to snapshoot while doing so.

If they move or DS they can't shoot that turn though (well, they can make a single snap shot which might as well be no shooting). That's why most people don't like them.