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 Swampmist wrote:
I just thought of a way to make the Exalted Flamers better; Take Ahriman in a CAD for D3 Infiltrators, and then infiltrate them up and Baleflame things.

Formed as a single unit to guarantee it, attached to some horrors for ablative wounds.

Yyyyyes, that would do it.

So: Are there any "take a unit" Auxilliaries? Furies would be the obvious candidate.

Got confirmation of the Soul Grinder Formation: Desperate Competition - Each time a Soul Grinder inflicts any casualties during Shooting or Assault phase, all other models from the formation re-roll all failed To Hit and To Wound until the end of the phase.

Chinese whispers fails me! Unfortunately the Grinders don't get to re-roll armour pen either :\

Also, Warlord Traits! As long as you are a demon of the correct type, you can roll on the appropriate table.

Khorne
1: Angel of Death - Enemy unit that fails a Fear test caused by your Warlord suffers 1 Wound of each point the test was failed by, no saves of any kind allowed.
2: Glory of Battle - Warlord has Rampage
3: Oblivious to Pain - Warlord has Feel No Pain. All Friendly Demon of Khorne units within 8" of Warlord get FNP6+
4: Immense Power - Warlord has +1S
5: Devastating Blow - In CC can choose to make a single Devastating Blow resolved at Strength D AP2 (!!)
6: Rage Incarnate - Warlord and all friendly Demon of Khorne units within 8" have Rage

Tzeentch
1: Born of Sorcery - Warlord harnesses Warp Charge on a 3+
2: Incorporeal Flame - Enemy is at -1WS and -1BS when targetting Warlord or his unit
3: Warp Tether - +1 to Invuln saves of Warlord and all friendly Demon of Tzeentch units within 9"
4: Lorekeeper of Tzeentch - +1 to Warlords Mastery Level. If not a psyker, instead becomes a ML1 Psyker and generates from Discipline of Change
5: Tyrant of the Warp - Warlord ignores the first Perils of the Warp he suffers during each Psychic Phase
6: Demonspark - Close Combat attacks of Warlord and all Demon of Tzeentch units within 9" have Soul Blaze

Nurgle
1: Blessed with Corpulence - Warlord has +1 Wound
2: Acidic Ichor - Each time Warlord suffers a wound in the Assault phase, the unit that dealt it takes a S1 AP2 Poisoned 4+ hit.
3: Plaguefly Hive - Enemy units within 7" of Warlord can only fire Snap Shots when targeting Warlord or his Unit.
4: Virulent Touch: If a model suffers any unsaved Wounds from your Warlord in Assault Phase, it must pass a Toughness Test at the end of phase or suffer 1 addition wound with no Armour or Cover saves allowed.
5: Impenetrable Hide - Warlord has FNP. If he already has FNP, he adds +1 to the FNP roll.
6: Miasma of Pestilence - Enemy units within 7" of Warlord that suffer any unsaved wounds during Shooting or Assault phase suffer D6 additional S1 Poisoned 5+ Wounds at the end of that phase. No Armour or Cover saves.

Slaanesh
1: Celerity of Slaanesh - Warlord and unit can Run and Charge.
2: Quicksilver Duellist - Warlord re-rolls all failed To Hits in a Challenge.
3: The Murderdance - Warlord and all friendly Slaanesh Demon units re-roll failed To Hits of 1 in the Assault Phase
4: Fatal Caress - To Wound rolls of 6 by your Warlord have Instant Death in the Assault Phase
5: Savage Hedonist - Warlord has +1 Attack
6: Bewitching Aura - At start of each Fight sub-phase, each enemy unit locked in combat against Warlord must pass Ld or be at -5WS (to minimum of 1) until end of phase.

Tzeentch seems awesome for the 4 DP formation. Any of those would be pretty excellent for 3 other DP's. Though a Khorne DP using the lore of tzeentch would be brilliant.

Also I want to see the actual Daemon Decurion pages. That'll help enormously

Well, there's the "Harness on a 3+" and "Run and Charge" rules. Their just WL traits. Still, I feel like there are atleast 3 traits on each of those tables that are good, which is more than most armies get.

So what does this mean for special characters with set traits? Is the old table still legal?

RAW question on new warlord traits for Nurgle:

1) Nurgle's acid ichor does not specify "unsaved wound", other powers usually do (even virulent touch and miasma of pestilence in this new table). If you save the wound do you still make the poison hit?

2) Impenetrable Hide: if you gain FNP later is it at +1, i.e. Endurance or locus of fenductity?

Relics! They are listed as Hellforged Artefacts, and any model that can take an Exalted reward can take one of the new ones. They don't count towards the points spent on Demonic Rewards, however a model can only have 1 Hellforged Artefact of any type.

Khorne:
* A'rgath, The King of Blades: 15pts. S+1, AP3, Melee, Specialist Weapon, Blade King (Bearer always hits on a 2+ in a challenge). Demon Prince of Khorne or Herald of Khorne only, replaces the bearer's melee weapon.

* Deathdealer: 15pts. S User, AP2, Melee, Decapitating Blow (Instant Death on To Wound of 6), Specialist Weapon, Searing Gore (Each time a model is removed as the result of attack by this weapon, its unit immediately takes an additional D3 S3 AP4 hits starting on closest models to bearer. Bloodthirsters of any type or Demon Princes only. Replaces bearer's melee weapon

* The Crimson Crown: 40pts. +1 Attack to all Demons of Khorne models within 8" of bearer. Bloodthirsters, Demon Princes and Heralds.

* Skullreaver: 30pts. S Uer, AP2, Melee, Specialist Weapon, Anathema (To Hit rolls of 6 are Strength D!!!). Bloodthirsters of any type or Demon Princes, replaces melee weapon. Fluff describes it as a huge axe with a Bloodthirster bound inside it

* Khartoth the Bloodhunger: 25pts. S+1 AP3 Melee Sunderer of Time (When a model suffers any unsaved wound from this weapon, it is removed from play but make a note of the models position. At the start of each turn, the controlling player rolls a die - on a 4+ the model re-enters play via Deep Strike within 12" of where it was slain. Model counts as slain if the game ends before it returns to play). Demon Princes and Heralds only, replaces melee weapon.

* Armour of Scorn: 30pts. 3+ Armour save, Adamantium Will. Reduce the Strength of any attack that targets the bearer by 1. Bloodthirsters and Demon Princes only

Tzeentch
* Paradox: 25pts. S User, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Warp Contradiction (Once per turn when taking Psychic Test, bearer can pick up and turn all dice he has rolled to their opposite side instead (ie 1,3 and 5 become 6, 4 and 2). Lord of Change and Herald of Tzeentch only.

* The Endless Grimoire: 35pts. If your Warlord generates all his powers from Change, he knows all the Change powers. Herald of Tzeentch only.

* Soul Bane: 15pts. S User, AP*, Melee, Fleshbane, Incorporeal (AP is equal to target's Initiative. If target is higher Initiative 6, it is AP-. Against vehicles it is AP1). Demon Princes or Heralds only.

* The Oracular Dais: 35pts. Counts as Disc of Tzeentch. At start of each of your turns, choose one friendly Chaos Demon Faction unit that is reserve and automatically pass its reserve roll. Herald only.

* The Impossible Robe: 25pts. 3+ Invulnerable save. Each time wearer suffers an unsaved wound, must pass Ld or be removed from play. Lords of Change, Demon Princes or Heralds only. Note the wording on that downside...

* The Everstave: 20pts. Two profiles - S User, AP4, Melee, Soul Blaze, Warpflame and Range: Template, S5, AP3, Heavy 1, Soul Blaze, Warpflame. Lord of Change or Herald only

Nurgle
*Grotti the Nurgling: 40pts. Reduce the Toughness of all models, friend or Foe, by 1 whilst they are in 6" of a model accompanied by Grotti, unless they are a Demon of Nurgle. Great Unclean One, Demon Prince, Herald only. The fluff for this little dude is epic!

* Corruption: 25pts. S*, AP-, Melee, Touch of Rust (always glance on a 6), Hyper-infection (Hits by this weapon automatically Wound, no need to roll. Use the bearer's Strength for Armour Pen and Instant Death). GUO, Demon Princes and Heralds.

* Horn of Nurgle's Rot: 35pts. After resolving bearer's close combat attacks, add 1 model to friendly Plaguebearer units within 12" of the bearer for each enemy model that was slain. Models must be placed in coherency and more than 1" away from enemy models. Demon Prince and Heralds only.

* Epidemia: 20pts. S+1, AP- Melee, Specialist Weapon, Mass Contagion (Each time a model is removed as the result of this weapon, its unit must pass a Toughness nest or suffer an additional wound with no armour or cover). GUO only.

* The Doomsday Bell: 30pts. Counts as Instrument of Chaos. Whilst bearer is on the field, all enemy units are at -1Ld. Herald Only.

* Death's Head of Duke Olaks: 15pts. Range 12", S1, AP4, Assault 1, Large Blast, Poison 2+, One Use Only. Herald Only

Slaanesh
* Soulstealer: 20pts. S User, AP3, Melee, Soulgreed (each time a model is removed by this weapon, the bearer immediately regains 1 lost wound). Keeper of Secrets or Demon Prince only.

* Silvershard: 30pts. S User, AP3, Melee, Blade Blitz (bearer has +2 attacks). KoS or DP only.

* The Slothful Claw: 10pts. When bearer attacks in melee, roll one attack separately with the following profile S+2, AP2, Melee, Specialist Weapon, Rending. KoS or Herald only.

* The Forbidden Gem: 15pts. At start of Fight Sub-phase, after challenges issued but before blows are struck, any model in a challenge must roll 3D6 and subtract their Ld. That model suffers penalty to WS and Initiative equal to the result for the rest of the phase. Herald Only

* Whips of Agony: 15pts. S User, AP5, Melee, Agonising (the bearer can re-roll all failed To Wound rolls. Any model that suffers unsaved wounds cannot make attacks for the rest of the Fight Subphase). Exalted Alluress only....

* The Mark of Excess: 15pts. At the end of a Fight Sub-phase in which the bearer kills a Monstrous Creature or Character, it gains +1 Attack for the rest of the game. KoS, Demon Prince or Herald.

 GoonBandito wrote:
Relics incoming They are listed as Hellforged Artifacts, and any model that can take an Exalted reward can take one of the new ones. They don't count towards the points spent on Demonic Rewards, however a model can only have 1 Hellforged Artifact.

Would you mind finding out if the daemon detachment has any non-formation auxilliary choices, such as units of furies?

Any confirmations or pictures of the actual Decurion and its benefits?

Id love to see the exact wording on that objective claiming thing.

Well, all of the stuff other than formations will be usable in 30k too, so that's something to consider. The D power is gonna be crazy when taking these guys as allies.

Thanks for the wording of the relics, but what of the forgehost?

All relics posted above

So... unless the expansion changes the wording of how Daemons generate their powers, The Endless Grimoire does nothing as Daemons are only allowed to generate up to half their powers from a god discipline.

*slowclap*

EDIT: Also wow all the AP3 Slaanesh Relics can only be taken by models with Smash. What was even the point?

And the Whip can only be taken by the Exalted Alluress? 10 pts for an AP2 sword is better...

Why do you hate Slaanesh, Goon?! ;P

Oh, looks like you edited them in, sweet!

Matt, unless I am mistaken there is no such requirement/restriction for Chaos Daemons psykers in that regard. Just for CSM.

In fact, on Aeteos'Rau'Keres' rules (big FW Lord of Change), it says that he ignores the restriction of generating half his powers from Change as per the demons book but that is a typo because there is no requirement for him to do so otherwise.

Not trying to go all "ACTUALLY" on you, just trying to help If I am wrong, I apologize.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So... unless the expansion changes the wording of how Daemons generate their powers, The Endless Grimoire does nothing as Daemons are only allowed to generate up to half their powers from a god discipline.

Means you can only take it on a ML1 char.

I'm very happy with the Slaanesh stuff from this supplement, the formations are good, the warlord table is amazing especially run and charge and entire army gets re-roll to hit of 1 in combat.

The Relics

The Soulstealer: Is great increases the durability of melee Daemon Princes and Keeper of secrets quite allot once there in combat.

The Silvershard: Is good shame it can't be paired with eternal blade that would have been fun

The slothful claw: Is good since if it will grant +1 attack when paired with a greater Either-blade while allowing the heralds to instant death toughness 3 characters.

The Forbidden Gem: Is ok not sure if I will use it

Whips of Agony: Could have been good on a Hellflayer Exalted Alluress if it was unit couldn't attack sadly it isn't, though a Hellfalyer/or chariot armed with this could go suicide monster hunting.

The Mark of Excess: Good on a Herald with Exalted Locus, nothing bad about sniping squad leaders for +1 attack.

Thanks for posting all that up Goon

Not sure the Claw is good. Is it a weapon itself or an artifact?

Also, can't see myself giving up the chance to reroll warpstorm in order to roll on that Slaanesh table.

Real shame the Tzeentch disc passes a roll and thus can't be used turn one. No longer interested. :(

 Brometheus wrote:
Matt, unless I am mistaken there is no such requirement/restriction for Chaos Daemons psykers in that regard. Just for CSM.

There is unfortunately. It differs from CSM in that Daemons aren't forced to take up to half, just that they can't generate more than half.

skarsol wrote:
Not sure the Claw is good. Is it a weapon itself or an artifact?

Also, can't see myself giving up the chance to reroll warpstorm in order to roll on that Slaanesh table.

Real shame the Tzeentch disc passes a roll and thus can't be used turn one. No longer interested. :(

I play Mono slaanesh so I rarely got to reroll the warp storm table anyway, and I have the decurion bonuses to protect me from the dreaded snake eyes on the table now.

The only bad one is Bewitching Aura and Quicksilver Duelist (on a Herald with exalted Locus) the rest are good, re-rolls to hit of a 1 for the entire army is incredible.

Mono-slaanesh is already not super competitive; not sure I can give up even more in order to run the Decurion.

skarsol wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So... unless the expansion changes the wording of how Daemons generate their powers, The Endless Grimoire does nothing as Daemons are only allowed to generate up to half their powers from a god discipline.

Means you can only take it on a ML1 char.

It doesn't say the bearer has to generate all his powers from Change, only the Warlord. So if you made a different Herald the Warlord you could give him a different artefact, like Paradox, and stack the effects.

On the other hand, if he rolls the +1ML warlord trait I guess you're gak outta luck.

Very well matt, i was dead wrong. Sorry! : )

 Swampmist wrote:
Well, there's the "Harness on a 3+" and "Run and Charge" rules. Their just WL traits. Still, I feel like there are atleast 3 traits on each of those tables that are good, which is more than most armies get.

Truth! At least Fear is not in any of them. Tzeentch made out like a bandit with their traits, as did Nurgle. Khorne is solid as well with to solid 8" bubble powers. Slaanesh is the weakest. Plus 1 attack....really? Slaaneshi daemons tend to have extra limbs and claws why not +2 attacks? An why to different traits that re-roll to hit? Slaaneshi warlords are all WS7-9. And another trait that reduces WS by -5 with an LD test in combat. Come on... Some grenades would have be nice. Or beast movement, hit & run, dusk strider. Or forcing range units to only snap fire at the Warlord. I was really hoping for something to help a KOS survive to reach combat.

 Brometheus wrote:
Very well matt, i was dead wrong. Sorry! : )

Nothing to be sorry about, it was just a simple mistake.

* Skullreaver: 30pts. S Uer, AP2, Melee, Specialist Weapon, Anathema (To Hit rolls of 6 are Strength D!!!). Bloodthirsters of any type or Demon Princes, replaces melee weapon. Fluff describes it as a huge axe with a Bloodthirster bound inside it

This is Awsome! Referencing Rouge Trader and 2nd Ed. Bloodthirster's wielding axes that turn into Bloodthirsters.

Huh, I've never seen that rule for Daemons generating powers. So yeah, literally the only way to get it would be to have a ML1 Psyker as the Warlord. So... bollocks for the most part.

Oracular Dias is still confusing. "At start of each of your turns, choose one friendly Chaos Demon Faction unit that is reserve and automatically pass its reserve roll." On Turn 1, you can't pass a Reserve roll because you don't start until Turn 2. But it is one of your turns, so you pick the unit?

Corruption is... kinda cool. Nurgle Princes wound on 2s against most things anyway (and reroll with Balesword thanks to that Poison if they're T5 or lower), but it's extremely good against Wraithknights or other GCs.

Is Whips of Agony only for the chick on the Chariot? That doesn't even work! She can't take Hellforged Artifacts, which seems to be the thing that allows you to take the new relics. Freaking lol.

skarsol wrote:
Not sure the Claw is good. Is it a weapon itself or an artifact?

Also, can't see myself giving up the chance to reroll warpstorm in order to roll on that Slaanesh table.

Real shame the Tzeentch disc passes a roll and thus can't be used turn one. No longer interested. :(

The Slothful claws pretty good on a Herald. Its better than the Greater Etherblade/Etherblade combo I usually take now. As you still gain +1S and +1 attack. But now you get a single +2S/AP2/Rending attack for the same cost. So the herald is S5 with a GEB, and S7 for a single attack. I'd never take it on a KOS though.

What I'm not sure about is Silver Shard, +30 pts for 2 attacks? Greater Etherblade/Etherblade combo grants +1S and + 1 Attack. If you taking a KOS or DP why wouldn't you take The Soul Stealer and regain wounds for each model slain?

Its a really shame you can only take on per model...while a Space Marine Chapter Master can take well everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:
Huh, I've never seen that rule for Daemons generating powers. So yeah, literally the only way to get it would be to have a ML1 Psyker as the Warlord. So... bollocks for the most part.

I'd complete forgotten about it because in 3 years I've never used the CD book powers. I made sense when the Lore only had half the number of power. It'll probably received a FAQ in a year or so.

Is Whips of Agony only for the chick on the Chariot? That doesn't even work! She can't take Hellforged Artifacts, which seems to be the thing that allows you to take the new relics. Freaking lol.

S3/AP3/Melee/ Re-rolls to wound? It does nothing because it will wound nothing. Well maybe a guardsman or fire warrior, who would be dead anyway. Spring for the extra 5 pts and get the Greater Etherblade for S4/AP2/Specialist/Mastercrafted; or the Lash of Despair for S3/AP-/2D6 shots. But really why bother she'll be dead after the first charge anyway, so save the points for something else.

 Sersi wrote:
What I'm not sure about is Silver Shard, +30 pts for 2 attacks? Greater Etherblade/Etherblade combo grants +1S and + 1 Attack. If you taking a KOS or DP why wouldn't you take The Soul Stealer and regain wounds for each model slain?

Greater Etherblade/Etherblade on a DP/KOS takes up 2 of your gifts while the silver shard takes up none. The Soul Stealer is superior however shame neither of the weapons are specialist but at least there both good/decent.

 Sersi wrote:
S3/AP3/Melee/ Re-rolls to wound? It does nothing because it will wound nothing. Well maybe a guardsman or fire warrior, who would be dead anyway. Spring for the extra 5 pts and get the Greater Etherblade for S4/AP2/Specialist/Mastercrafted; or the Lash of Despair for S3/AP-/2D6 shots. But really why bother she'll be dead after the first charge anyway, so save the points for something else.

You can use her against some solo monsters to disable them due to shred + rending combo, that is the only niche I can think about for a chariot armed with the whip of agony.

Can we get a confirmation on how many soul grinders have to be in the formation? That will be a big tip-off as to how expensive it will be to try to run the decurion, since the soul grinder one can fulfill the auxiliary requirement.

Anyway, now that we have more points and info, here is what I would do at 1850 if I wanted to run my Daemons for a fun game while still at least trying to be competitive:

Tzeentch CAD:
1x Fateweaver (Warlord)
1x Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 3, the Oracular Dais
1x Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 3, greater gift (Grimmoire)
12x Horrors
12x Horrors

Nurgle Allied:
1x Herald of Nurgle, lvl 2, greater + lesser gift (ap2 etherblade + Instant Death Balesword), palanquin, FNP Locus, Grotti the Nurgling
1x Herald of Nurgle, lvl 2, greater + lesser gift (ap2 etherblade + Instant Death Balesword), palanquin, Horn of Nurgle's Rot
20x Plague Bearers, plague banner

Chaos Space Marine Allied:
1x Sorcerer, lvl 3
1x Rhino, Death of Kasyr Lutien
5x Chaos Space Marines
1x Chaos Fire Raptor, balefire missiles, vessel of tzenkh the occluder

21 psychic dice base.

Turn 1, fly in with 2++ fateweaver and/or hide the herald on a disc, depending on which has Cursed Earth. Turn 2, no-scatter drop in the plague bearer super-unit right in front of the enemy army, drop grimmoire on them, boost them with the +3 toughness power if you have it. You should now have a 22-model, 2++, toughness 7, FNP, shrouded unit with two Heralds inside lowering enemy toughness by -1, causing poisoned Instant Death by the heralds (poisoned 2+ for 1 round), and spawning some replacement plague bearers into the unit every combat (and they can glance vehicles to death).

Meanwhile, Fateweaver is casting novas, D-shots, and summoning burning chariots in the middle of the enemy army. The rhino in the back is helping your herald(s) and horrors reliably cast summoning spells on very few psychic dice, with screamers, seekers, and daemonettes moving upfield fast for objectives or to help your nurglestar. The Fire Raptor deals with enemy fliers and light armor/infantry that moves around too fast to catch. Fateweaver's warp storm re-roll helps you keep the table in your favor.

It's not good against everything, but any army that can't deal with both the nurglestar in the backfield + all the psychic powers + the warpstorm at the same time is going to have fits.