Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Question -

Drop pods arrives *Thunk!*, opponent declares sky-cepter, then,

A) Glances it to death - what becomes of it? Terrain? What about the guys? Normal disembark? Emergency disembark? instant splat death?

B) Becomes Immobilized - Does this lose another HP or does it have to land before interceptor then get hit with immobile again to lose an extra hp? Does it blow up? Still on board if it loses last hp?

C) Becomes Explodes upon entering - What happens to the chums inside? Does the pod get places? Are their now ruins and terrain?



is there any other scenario im missing?

Interceptor occurs at the end of the movement phase, not upon entering. By then, the drop pod will have deployed it's cargo of angry, angry genetically modified men.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
A) Glances it to death - what becomes of it? Terrain? What about the guys? Normal disembark? Emergency disembark? instant splat death?

Same as any Wrecked Vehicle. Unit is already disembarked so unaffected unless the Drop Pod Explodes!

B) Becomes Immobilized - Does this lose another HP or does it have to land before interceptor then get hit with immobile again to lose an extra hp? Does it blow up? Still on board if it loses last hp?

Yes, it is already Immobilized, so loses another Hull Point instead. Drop Pods are still Vehicles so get Wrecked like any other Vehicle that loses its last Hull Point.

C) Becomes Explodes upon entering - What happens to the chums inside? Does the pod get places? Are their now ruins and terrain?

How does it Exlpode on entering? Otherwise like any Exploding Vehicle.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Question -

Drop pods arrives *Thunk!*, opponent declares sky-cepter, then,

A) Glances it to death - what becomes of it? Terrain? What about the guys? Normal disembark? Emergency disembark? instant splat death?

B) Becomes Immobilized - Does this lose another HP or does it have to land before interceptor then get hit with immobile again to lose an extra hp? Does it blow up? Still on board if it loses last hp?

C) Becomes Explodes upon entering - What happens to the chums inside? Does the pod get places? Are their now ruins and terrain?



is there any other scenario im missing?

Your main point of confusion appears to be surrounding timing. Your opponent gets to declare interceptor usage at the END of your movement phase. He's allowed to target any units that came in from reserves that turn. This means that he could choose to target the Drop Pod OR its contents after they disembark. People often miss this.

I was playing Tau Empire versus a Space Marines player. He dropped in a Drop Pod and a Melta-heavy 10 man Sternguard Unit got out. At the end of the movement phase, I declared Interceptor usage and killed 7 out of the 10 Marines. They failed their Leadership test and had to fall back. It was glorious.

Brilliant. Thanks guys. I was forgetting the timing.

This is however a pertinent question when applied to "I've Been Expecting You" rules under Coteaz.

The way we play it is that Coteaz gets to shoot both the Drop Pod and unit that disembarked (so long as they are both within 12" and LOS of Coteaz), as the unit immediately disembarks as per the Drop Pod rules.

In the case of a Rhino coming in from reserves, the Rhino would get shot before the unit gets a chance to deploy, at which point the vehicle could be wrecked.

 ibushi wrote:
This is however a pertinent question when applied to "I've Been Expecting You" rules under Coteaz.

The way we play it is that Coteaz gets to shoot both the Drop Pod and unit that disembarked (so long as they are both within 12" and LOS of Coteaz), as the unit immediately disembarks as per the Drop Pod rules.

In the case of a Rhino coming in from reserves, the Rhino would get shot before the unit gets a chance to deploy, at which point the vehicle could be wrecked.

Actually you may want to re-read the Drop Pod rules - I belive the wording has changed since the 6th edition codex. The passengers in DP no longer have to disembark "immediately", altho they must disembark once DP landed. There may be a time window to shoot at DP and try to explode it before Marines disembark, since Coteaz do shoots immediatelly. Can anyone verify it?

 danyboy wrote:
Actually you may want to re-read the Drop Pod rules - I belive the wording has changed since the 6th edition codex. The passengers in DP no longer have to disembark "immediately", altho they must disembark once DP landed. There may be a time window to shoot at DP and try to explode it before Marines disembark, since Coteaz do shoots immediatelly. Can anyone verify it?

"Once a Drop Pod lands, all passengers must disembark and no models can embark for the rest of the game."

Coteaz's rule says immediately when they arrive within 12" so I'd say once it is placed where it lands (otherwise you have no way of knowing whether it arrives within 12") and Coteaz's rule is resolved at the same time as the unit is required to disembark, at a glance?

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 danyboy wrote:
Actually you may want to re-read the Drop Pod rules - I belive the wording has changed since the 6th edition codex. The passengers in DP no longer have to disembark "immediately", altho they must disembark once DP landed. There may be a time window to shoot at DP and try to explode it before Marines disembark, since Coteaz do shoots immediatelly. Can anyone verify it?

"Once a Drop Pod lands, all passengers must disembark and no models can embark for the rest of the game."

Coteaz's rule says immediately when they arrive within 12" so I'd say once it is placed where it lands (otherwise you have no way of knowing whether it arrives within 12") and Coteaz's rule is resolved at the same time as the unit is required to disembark, at a glance?

The space marine unit is only ever embarked while in reserves. the unit "leaves" the pod as soon as it enters play. both the pod and the unit it brought in are entering from reserves at the same time. there is not a timing break between the two as both units enter simultaneously. Having had this done often in my local LGS and having had numerous looks at the BRB has yielded this.

while the drop pod is on the table a unit is never "embarked" inside of it. the pod dropping and the unit "leaving" it happen simultaneously.

die toten hosen wrote:
The space marine unit is only ever embarked while in reserves.

That's not what the Drop Pod Assault rule says. The unit disembarks once the Drop Pod lands, which I think we can reasonably take as when it is placed on the board in its final position.

the unit "leaves" the pod as soon as it enters play. both the pod and the unit it brought in are entering from reserves at the same time. there is not a timing break between the two as both units enter simultaneously. Having had this done often in my local LGS and having had numerous looks at the BRB has yielded this.

Coteaz's rule is triggered if a unit arrives from reserves within 12" and line of sight of Coteaz. 'Combined Reserve Units' says:

"Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle."

So you make a single roll and both embarked unit and Drop Pod arrive together. When both the Drop Pod and embarked unit arrive together Coteaz may resolve his special rule, but at that point the unit has not disembarked from the Drop Pod.

Even if Coteaz's rule must be resolved at the same time the unit must disembark from the Drop Pod, you run into the rule of Sequencing:

"While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or similar. When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order."

So the player whose turn it is may choose whether Coteaz's rule is resolved first, or whether the disembarking per Drop Pod Assault is resolved first.

while the drop pod is on the table a unit is never "embarked" inside of it. the pod dropping and the unit "leaving" it happen simultaneously.

The Drop Pod must be placed first to measure disembarking from. Disembarking only happens "once" (i.e. as soon as, after) the Drop Pod has landed.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
The space marine unit is only ever embarked while in reserves.

That's not what the Drop Pod Assault rule says. The unit disembarks once the Drop Pod lands, which I think we can reasonably take as when it is placed on the board in its final position.

the unit "leaves" the pod as soon as it enters play. both the pod and the unit it brought in are entering from reserves at the same time. there is not a timing break between the two as both units enter simultaneously. Having had this done often in my local LGS and having had numerous looks at the BRB has yielded this.

Coteaz's rule is triggered if a unit arrives from reserves within 12" and line of sight of Coteaz. 'Combined Reserve Units' says:

"Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle."

So you make a single roll and both embarked unit and Drop Pod arrive together. When both the Drop Pod and embarked unit arrive together Coteaz may resolve his special rule, but at that point the unit has not disembarked from the Drop Pod.

Even if Coteaz's rule must be resolved at the same time the unit must disembark from the Drop Pod, you run into the rule of Sequencing:

"While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or similar. When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order."

So the player whose turn it is may choose whether Coteaz's rule is resolved first, or whether the disembarking per Drop Pod Assault is resolved first.

while the drop pod is on the table a unit is never "embarked" inside of it. the pod dropping and the unit "leaving" it happen simultaneously.

The Drop Pod must be placed first to measure disembarking from. Disembarking only happens "once" (i.e. as soon as, after) the Drop Pod has landed.

The unit inside the drop pod did however arrive from reserve along with the unit inside. the unit disembarks immediately upon determining the final location of the pod.
assuming both units are within the required range of coteaz's ability and are not obscured for shooting then coteaz and his unit may choose to shoot at both targets that have arrive from reserve.

There is no area where you would be choosing which happens first between "i've been expecting you" and when a unit leaves the pod. as once the final placement of the pod happens the unit is required to immediately disembark.

die toten hosen wrote:
The unit inside the drop pod did however arrive from reserve along with the unit inside.

When did it arrive from reserve? At the same time the Drop Pod did, because Combined Reserve Units tells us this.

If you choose to use Coteaz's special rule you must do so immediately when the unit arrives within 12" and line of sight, i.e. you must do it immediately when Drop Pod and embarked unit arrive together.

The embarked unit can only disembark after the Drop Pod has been placed, so at best Coteaz's rule must be resolved at the same time as Drop Pod Assault requires the embarked unit to disembark (which invokes 'Sequencing' allowing the player whose turn it is to choose the order) or at worst only the Drop Pod is in line of sight because the embarked unit has not disembarked yet.

the unit disembarks immediately upon determining the final location of the pod.

Yes, which is immediately after it arrives. Which as above, at best is the same time Coteaz's rule must be resolved.

assuming both units are within the required range of coteaz's ability and are not obscured for shooting then coteaz and his unit may choose to shoot at both targets that have arrive from reserve.

If the Drop Pod is considered arriving at the same time it lands then Coteaz must resolve his rule immediately at that point and the embarked unit has not disembarked yet and is thus out of line of sight.

If you have disembarked the embarked unit then you have gone past the point of immediately when the unit has arrived from reserves.

die toten hosen wrote:
There is no area where you would be choosing which happens first between "i've been expecting you" and when a unit leaves the pod. as once the final placement of the pod happens the unit is required to immediately disembark.

Assuming the final placement of the Drop Pod is when it is considered to have arrived (which sounds reasonable, otherwise you've no way to know if it's within 12" of Coteaz) then it's the same time the unit must disembark. Again, if this is the case, then 'Sequencing'.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
The unit inside the drop pod did however arrive from reserve along with the unit inside.

When did it arrive from reserve? At the same time the Drop Pod did, because Combined Reserve Units tells us this.

If you choose to use Coteaz's special rule you must do so immediately when the unit arrives within 12" and line of sight, i.e. you must do it immediately when Drop Pod and embarked unit arrive together.

The embarked unit can only disembark after the Drop Pod has been placed, so at best Coteaz's rule must be resolved at the same time as Drop Pod Assault requires the embarked unit to disembark (which invokes 'Sequencing' allowing the player whose turn it is to choose the order) or at worst only the Drop Pod is in line of sight because the embarked unit has not disembarked yet.

the unit disembarks immediately upon determining the final location of the pod.

Yes, which is immediately after it arrives. Which as above, at best is the same time Coteaz's rule must be resolved.

assuming both units are within the required range of coteaz's ability and are not obscured for shooting then coteaz and his unit may choose to shoot at both targets that have arrive from reserve.

If the Drop Pod is considered arriving at the same time it lands then Coteaz must resolve his rule immediately at that point and the embarked unit has not disembarked yet and is thus out of line of sight.

If you have disembarked the embarked unit then you have gone past the point of immediately when the unit has arrived from reserves.

die toten hosen wrote:
There is no area where you would be choosing which happens first between "i've been expecting you" and when a unit leaves the pod. as once the final placement of the pod happens the unit is required to immediately disembark.

Assuming the final placement of the Drop Pod is when it is considered to have arrived (which sounds reasonable, otherwise you've no way to know if it's within 12" of Coteaz) then it's the same time the unit must disembark. Again, if this is the case, then 'Sequencing'.

Once that pod hits its final location units inside MUST disembark, they have come in from reserves with the drop pod making them a legal target. embarked or otherwise they have arrived from reserves. the sequencing is not the issue.
The marines count as coming in from reserves and are legal targets for coteaz.

die toten hosen wrote:
Once that pod hits its final location units inside MUST disembark, they have come in from reserves with the drop pod making them a legal target. embarked or otherwise they have arrived from reserves.

If they have yet to disembark they are not a unit that has arrived from reserves within 12" and within line of sight of Coteaz. Coteaz may only draw line of sight to them after they have disembarked, which must occur after the Drop Pod (and they, per Combined Reserve Units) arrived/landed.

the sequencing is not the issue.

If you consider they must disembark immediately once the Drop Pod lands, and that when it lands it counts as arriving, then both Coteaz's special rule and the unit disembarking per Drop Pod Assault must be resolved at the same time (once/immediately after the Drop Pod lands/arrives). Sequencing absolutely is an issue in that case.

The marines count as coming in from reserves and are legal targets for coteaz.

Again, they arrive at the same time because of Combined Reserve Units. They arrive at the same time as the Drop Pod, embarked upon the Drop Pod. They can only disembark once the Drop Pod has actually landed though, so at that point they have already arrived, and disembark either after Coteaz's rule must be resolved (immediately once the Drop Pod has arrived) or at the same time, in which case... again... Sequencing.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
Once that pod hits its final location units inside MUST disembark, they have come in from reserves with the drop pod making them a legal target. embarked or otherwise they have arrived from reserves.

If they have yet to disembark they are not a unit that has arrived from reserves within 12" and within line of sight of Coteaz. Coteaz may only draw line of sight to them after they have disembarked, which must occur after the Drop Pod (and they, per Combined Reserve Units) arrived/landed.

the sequencing is not the issue.

If you consider they must disembark immediately once the Drop Pod lands, and that when it lands it counts as arriving, then both Coteaz's special rule and the unit disembarking per Drop Pod Assault must be resolved at the same time (once/immediately after the Drop Pod lands/arrives). Sequencing absolutely is an issue in that case.

The marines count as coming in from reserves and are legal targets for coteaz.

Again, they arrive at the same time because of Combined Reserve Units. They arrive at the same time as the Drop Pod, embarked upon the Drop Pod. They can only disembark once the Drop Pod has actually landed though, so at that point they have already arrived, and disembark either after Coteaz's rule must be resolved (immediately once the Drop Pod has arrived) or at the same time, in which case... again... Sequencing.

The pod landing and the unit disembarking happens simultaneously though.

either way we aren't going to agree. my interpretation is clearly different. I still fail to see where or why you would break the sequencing of a drop pod unloading its units immediately upon landing(after resolving scatter as per drop pod rules. the unit does come in from reserve, where else is it coming from?) to resolve a shooting attack that doesn't, to me, have any priority to supersede that.
I respect your opinion on the subject but I disagree.

The rules clearly say the unit must dissembark once the Drop Pod lands, not at the same time. It's impossible for the unit to disembark at the same time as the Drop Pod landing; you cannot roll scatter and place the Drop Pod at the same time you llace the embarked models in base contact with an access point and measure their disembark within 6".

Coteaz may only use his special rule immediately when a unit arrives from reserves, and at that point they have not disembarked from the Drop Pod. Once they have disembarked from the Drop Pod it is after the point at which they arrived from reserves.

You're welcome to disagree but you're not doing so on the basis of playing and resolving the rules.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
The rules clearly say the unit must dissembark once the Drop Pod lands, not at the same time. It's impossible for the unit to disembark at the same time as the Drop Pod landing; you cannot roll scatter and place the Drop Pod at the same time you llace the embarked models in base contact with an access point and measure their disembark within 6".

Coteaz may only use his special rule immediately when a unit arrives from reserves, and at that point they have not disembarked from the Drop Pod. Once they have disembarked from the Drop Pod it is after the point at which they arrived from reserves.

You're welcome to disagree but you're not doing so on the basis of playing and resolving the rules.

i still don't see where you can say the embarked units are not coming in from reserve as they clearly are, you cannot claim one rule and disregard it for another. Also, until there is a ruling from GW you cannot speak from a place of authority either, nor can you tell me my interpretation is incorrect and yours the correct one.
As they disembark the drop pod they are coming in from reserves, after resolving scatter you disembark IMMEDIATELY as that's how units arriving from reserves works. a full drop pod is a unit when it arrives.

I am disagreeing based on rules and playing, you happen to disagree. In absence of GW being in anyway helpful with such interpretations we as the players are left to find what works based on our interpretations within our individual communities. Your solutions are no more or less valid then the ones other communities find. If i wake up tomarrow and GW has agreed with your way of doing things Via an official FAQ then i will follow it but until then please do not talk down to me from any place of authority.

I get what Mr Shine is saying - you can't declare the passengers inside a transport as the target of a shooting attack. At the instant the squad inside the drop pod arrives from reserves, and therefore the moment when "I've been expecting you" can be triggered, the unit inside is not a valid shooting target.

Instead of a Drop Pod, maybe consider a Rhino with some Marines inside coming in from Outflank that happens to a from a part of a board edge within 12" of Coteaz. The Rhino is certainly a valid target to shoot at, but the Marines inside are not. Coteaz and his unit do their shooting, and afterwards the Marines disembark from the Rhino. But at this point the time to trigger "I've Been Expecting You" on the Marines has passed, since it's no longer 'immediately' after the Marines have arrived from reserves.

die toten hosen wrote:
i still don't see where you can say the embarked units are not coming in from reserve as they clearly are, you cannot claim one rule and disregard it for another.

I've never said that. Combined Reserve Units tells us clearly that both transport and embarked unit arrive together, so when the Drop Pod arrives the embarked unit arrives also. Embarked upon the Drop Pod. The point I'm making is that Coteaz must resolve his special rule immediately when the intended target arrives. That's what his rule says. He has no permission to do so at any other time.

After the Drop Pod and embarked unit arrive (or the Drop Pod lands), then Drop Pod Assault requires the embarked unit to disembark. If you try to use Coteaz's rule after the embarked unit disembarks it's a step after they've arrived, so it's not immediately after they arrive. They've arrived and then disembarked at that point, so Coteaz has missed his opportunity.

Of course too though when they arrive he cannot draw line of sight to them, because immediately after they arrive they are still embarked upon the Drop Pod.

Also, until there is a ruling from GW you cannot speak from a place of authority either, nor can you tell me my interpretation is incorrect and yours the correct one.

If you disagree that's up to you - I'm free to provide my evidence and attempt to disprove yours, though.

As they disembark the drop pod they are coming in from reserves, after resolving scatter you disembark IMMEDIATELY as that's how units arriving from reserves works. a full drop pod is a unit when it arrives.

Well, no. The unit arrives together with the Drop Pod. That's how combined reserve units work - I provided you the rules quote. Disembarking is not arriving from reserves, it's disembarking from a transport vehicle. A unit can only disembark from a transport vehicle after it and its transport vehicle have arrived from reserves.

I think you've confused mandatory disembarking from the Drop Pod with the unit arriving from reserves, when they're separate things.

I am disagreeing based on rules and playing, you happen to disagree. In absence of GW being in anyway helpful with such interpretations we as the players are left to find what works based on our interpretations within our individual communities. Your solutions are no more or less valid then the ones other communities find. If i wake up tomarrow and GW has agreed with your way of doing things Via an official FAQ then i will follow it but until then please do not talk down to me from any place of authority.

Okay let's just not have rules discussion forums at all, they're meaningless and only one person's non-Games Workshop opinion per post, or something

 GoonBandito wrote:
I get what Mr Shine is saying - you can't declare the passengers inside a transport as the target of a shooting attack. At the instant the squad inside the drop pod arrives from reserves, and therefore the moment when "I've been expecting you" can be triggered, the unit inside is not a valid shooting target.

Instead of a Drop Pod, maybe consider a Rhino with some Marines inside coming in from Outflank that happens to a from a part of a board edge within 12" of Coteaz. The Rhino is certainly a valid target to shoot at, but the Marines inside are not. Coteaz and his unit do their shooting, and afterwards the Marines disembark from the Rhino. But at this point the time to trigger "I've Been Expecting You" on the Marines has passed, since it's no longer 'immediately' after the Marines have arrived from reserves.

Quite correct. The only difference is that disembarking from a Drop Pod is mandatory as soon as the Drop Pod has been placed in its final place on the table.

The confusion is that both embarked unit and Drop Pod arrive together, but arriving is not necessarily the same as being on the table.

What monster did i create?!

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
What monster did i create?!

The same kind I did in my Clan Raukan techmarine in a gladius topic. There are so many technicalities and a bunch of guys on this forum know their rules really well. It leads to some awesome discussions to read.

IMO I believe Mr. Shine is correct. The marines get out once they arrive. Coteaz shoots the very moment the pod arrives. When it arrives it has not yet disembarked the marines. Coteaz's rule triggers before the marines make the their mandatory disembarkation meaning he can only shoo the pod and not the guys inside.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
What monster did i create?!

You did not create the monster, you just recognized it and questioned it. The monster is GW's creation.