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Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter






Looking to assemble a list for a future Space Wolves army. Figuring they will be close combat oriented, what are some good basic builds to field for getting up close and personal?

1. Would Tartaros terminator armor be better then cataphractii?

2. Are close combat veterans any use?

3. What would be balanced out support units?

Any tips would be appreciated!!!



   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard






Idaho

1. Use tartaros terminators if you don't want cataphractii, personally I say go for a mix.

2. I find vet. tac. squads to simply not be worth it. you pay way to many points for a squad that tops out a 10 men with 3+ saves.

3. Basically everything is balanced or has a use, this isn't 40k where you need to avoid X unit, and worry about Y unit not being as good as Z unit, bring what you think looks and plays cool. Use support squads to balance out what your melee dudes are missing. a safe bet is probably support/heavy support squads with flamers/heavy flamers so you can charge after melting things


if you are playing melee, you are probably gonna want larger tac. squads with extra CCWs + apothecaries so you can mow things down with weight of attacks as opposed to hoping your 10-man squad in a rhino can manage to still be useful in close combat

DON'T overload on vehicles or non "common" elites until SW get rules, because you will hate yourself if they pull something like the IH have, and have a rule like "you cannot field more vehicles then you have infantry squads" and remember, (if you're not sure) 30k space wolves are actually grey, not blue grey

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/30 07:17:26


I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field.  
   
Made in my
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






At my desk

Your specific questions have already been answered, but here's a few things I've learned about assault-based armies.

1: Chaplains are your friends, if you're running a big 20 man blob (whether it be Assault Marines or Tacticals with CCWs) you don't want them running away, and sometimes just a Vexilla isn't enough.
2: Get some more armoured charge oriented tanks - nobody likes Vindicators going up the board at full steam ahead.
3: But also be sure to keep some ranged units - I like Legion Heavy Support Squads and Predators to just sit back a bit and plink away with heavy fire at range.
4: Find yourself a 'Distraction Carnifex' equivalent - I find Contemptors make good bullet-sponges for your infantry.
5: Dawdling = Death - if it's an assault unit for god's sake get it into assault, the last thing you want is for your huge assault squad to be wasted because they spent the whole game worrying about cover.

Someone else wi more experience may come along and say I'm an idiot and how they do it properly properly, but that's what I suggest you think about when making your list and using it.

3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)

2000pts Free Peoples (Edlynd Fusiliers) - 2000pts Kharadron Overlords (Barak Zilfin) - 500pts Ironweld Arsenal (Edlynd Ironwork Federation) - 1000pts Duardin (Grongrok Powderheads)

Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! 
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Minnesota, USA

My most used unit for melee is actually just a 20 man tactical squad with and extra CCW. With the reaping they can have the rad grenades and on a charge will throw a lot of dice.

There is no Zuul, there is only war!

30k Death Guard W:8 L:5: D:1

Mechanicum W:4 L:2 D:1


 
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

Regular Tac Squads with bolter/pistol/CCW are top dog, unless your have a rite of war or legion rules that makes the other choices better.

-Boarding Squads are strange reverse assault squads that will run you alot more points then just using the tacs, who also come in larger squads. Skip unless your Imperial Fists or Ultramarines.

-Assault Squads: they are alright, and can take some special weapons switch is tempting. But agien the Tac squad blob is MUCH cheaper both in points and money. You can use the points you saved by useing Tac Squads to buy land raiders or something to transport them.


Generally if you want to do melee you want to play other Night Lords, World Eaters, or Sons of Horus. since they have legion rules and/or rites of war that give them a edge over the other legions in CC. Even then, the Tac squads are their melee unit of choice for the back bone of the army.

Since you are doing space wolves I would just build your tac squads for now. If your sitting on a BaC set try to hold on for 4 days, because we should be seeing the 1st previews for Inferno according to the HH weekender schedule.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/03 03:31:07


 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter






Much needed advice so far! I don't really have much for wolves other then B@C set and some extra cataphractii. I have been eyeing some assault squad units but really don't want to jump the gun, though I can't see how they could hurt. I really feel like vindicators would be a nice addition. I will reluctantly drop my veterans for something else.

Do you gents that run 20 man tactical field two units of them or just the single giant one? I do have a Spartan and a Caestus ram waiting to be assembled.

Thanks!
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Minnesota, USA

I will whenever possible do the 20 man blob. Cheaper points wise to do 2 20 man squads than say 4 10 man squads. With an apothecary and some terrain in the field they get where they need to thanks to being cheap enough to where acceptable losses actually can mean something.

There is no Zuul, there is only war!

30k Death Guard W:8 L:5: D:1

Mechanicum W:4 L:2 D:1


 
   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard






Idaho

 Greyguy13 wrote:
Much needed advice so far! I don't really have much for wolves other then B@C set and some extra cataphractii. I have been eyeing some assault squad units but really don't want to jump the gun, though I can't see how they could hurt. I really feel like vindicators would be a nice addition. I will reluctantly drop my veterans for something else.

Do you gents that run 20 man tactical field two units of them or just the single giant one? I do have a Spartan and a Caestus ram waiting to be assembled.

Thanks!


it's cheaper (points wise) to run a larger squad, and larger squads have the benefit of being durrable enough (as opposed to 10-man squads). if you take a 20-man tactical squad with extra CCW, you have 60 attacks on the charge, 40 if you are charged (assuming nothing is dead to shooting) as opposed to squishier 10-man squads who can only max out at 30/20.

that being said: build whatever you want if you think it looks cool/ is fluffy. 30k is NOT as competitive as 40k, so you have more leeway with list building, and knowing whats "good" or not (since basically everything is good)

I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field.  
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter






Thanks gentleman, i appreciate the feedback! Which vehicle's/transports are most effective at getting units into combat? Currently I am looking into Anvillus drop pod and the Storm Eagle, both have their interesting styles.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

I run world eaters and as others have said, tac squads are my backbone, 15 backed by an apothecary, sarge with articifer armour, power axe and a melta bomb, 3 units of these for the rite of war to gain hatred, the rage Legion trait and cc is golden for me, I foot slog up the board backed by 2 contemptors, a leviathan for primarch hunting and just adjust my army deadening on what else I fancy using that day.
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

 Greyguy13 wrote:
Thanks gentleman, i appreciate the feedback! Which vehicle's/transports are most effective at getting units into combat? Currently I am looking into Anvillus drop pod and the Storm Eagle, both have their interesting styles.


In All Honesty I run three 10 man Tacs with Bolter/pistol/CCW in rhinos with heavy flamers. I rhino rush 2 of these squads across the table plus a empty rhino, and leave the 3rd squad back to set the objective.

Alot of people consider the rhino the weakest transport but they work for me because I play such a tank heavy Iron Warriors Army, and i get extra-armour for free. With so many scary tanks on the field people don't want to use their heavy weapons to shoot a rhino.

So what works for your army just counts on the composition of the rest of your army. A Foot Slogging Legion army can work realy well by loading up on heavy weapon squads and 20 man blob troops. The enemy probably didn't bring enough anti-infantry weapons to deal with that many marines, so now they suddenly have to choose to shoot the approaching hoard of +3 armour or the heavy weapon squads in the back.

Target Saturation is the Legion's strength.


Land Raider Spartans are more for a "middle of the road" army were you don't want to go to the extreme of target saturation. They cut into alot of your armies points, but they are so hard to kill it's alight. Just take 1 or 2 cheap predators to follow behind it to support it and then everything eals on foot.

their are so many valid army compositions that you can get out of the Legion list, I have only realy scratched the surface.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/16 18:02:00


 
   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard






Idaho

 Lockark wrote:


Land Raider Spartans are more for a "middle of the road" army were you don't want to go to the extreme of target saturation. They cut into a lot of your armies points, but they are so hard to kill it's alight. Just take 1 or 2 cheap predators to follow behind it to support it and then everything eals on foot.

their are so many valid army compositions that you can get out of the Legion list, I have only really scratched the surface.


I honestly feel like Spartan's are over taken. To me, their are a lot like Vet. squads in that they have a use, but to many people think to default to them. It's a stupidly expensive land raider with only a little bit more fire power in my mind. It is nice to be able to lug about 10 terminators + an HQ, but it just makes that ~1000 point unit to much of a bullet sponge.

I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field.  
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

 Brennonjw wrote:
 Lockark wrote:


Land Raider Spartans are more for a "middle of the road" army were you don't want to go to the extreme of target saturation. They cut into a lot of your armies points, but they are so hard to kill it's alight. Just take 1 or 2 cheap predators to follow behind it to support it and then everything eals on foot.

their are so many valid army compositions that you can get out of the Legion list, I have only really scratched the surface.


I honestly feel like Spartan's are over taken. To me, their are a lot like Vet. squads in that they have a use, but to many people think to default to them. It's a stupidly expensive land raider with only a little bit more fire power in my mind. It is nice to be able to lug about 10 terminators + an HQ, but it just makes that ~1000 point unit to much of a bullet sponge.


I don't disagree with you.

The problem is they don't come into their own till your playing 2500-3000 point games, because they are like mini super heavies you can buy in your heavy support choice, and the stupid expensive units you are putting in that tank can actully make some of their point cost back, besides just over-killing a couple of units.

Met a guy once who had alot of fun putting a 20 man breacher squad with forge-lord with Rad-Gernades in one. Never got a chance to play him before he moved, but looked like a fun unit.

It's not realy worth putting a 20-man tac squad in one. As people mentioned the cheapest way to help get thows squads across the table is apothecaries.

I felt it was worth mentioning the Spartan since the OP mentioned he already owns a Spartan and a Caestus ram. Witch sadly for him you can only realy take one of the other due to the cost of the beat stick units you will want to put in them.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/02/16 18:57:32


 
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

The thing I'd add on Tactical Squads is that from a practical perspective, 15 men are probably better than 20. 20 models on 32mm bases is a fething massive footprint that is going to be super-unwieldy and will logjam as soon as it hits terrain, and have real trouble bringing its weight to bear either in shooting or CC as there will always be a lot of models out of effective range. While it's cheaper, the lack of manoeuvrability and force concentration is a trade you make.

They probably work as a defensive unit, but for moving anywhere, I'd cap at 15 and a character. Speaking of which, Apothecaries are golden for larger units.

 
   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard






Idaho

 Paradigm wrote:
The thing I'd add on Tactical Squads is that from a practical perspective, 15 men are probably better than 20. 20 models on 32mm bases is a fething massive footprint that is going to be super-unwieldy and will logjam as soon as it hits terrain, and have real trouble bringing its weight to bear either in shooting or CC as there will always be a lot of models out of effective range. While it's cheaper, the lack of manoeuvrability and force concentration is a trade you make.

They probably work as a defensive unit, but for moving anywhere, I'd cap at 15 and a character. Speaking of which, Apothecaries are golden for larger units.


Speaking as someone who uses 2 21-man squads MINIMUM (woot apothecaries!) It's not really as much of a problem as you would think. whenever you're charging, yes (unless you charged something around the same size) men are being left out. However, in shooting, I've never really noticed the units who couldn't fire.

I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field.  
   
Made in ca
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions






It depends on the environment. Often people will play with blobs until things like the scorpius and typhon show up, then they change into more msu or alpha strike lists designed on eliminating the big threats and mopping up the rest.

Keep in mind that one contemptor or leviathan can feth up a 20 (or) 15 man squad and sweep them in one turn of combat. Stuff can die fast in 30k if you're not prepared

5,000 Raven Guard
3,000 Night Lords  
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Massed infantry, certainly. The fact that a 3,000 point army (not uncommon at the events I've seen) can include two sodding Typhons makes massed power-armoured infantry, even with apothecaries, a lot less useful than you might imagine.

Veterans can be useful - for melee units, outflank is a nice trick.

Essentially, unless you've got some serious tricks up your sleeves, a headlong celtic charge of close-packed infantry will just result in removing marines en masse before they get anywhere near an enemy line.

The firepower that 30k armies put out is insane.

Outlflanking units, drop pods, whatever, you've got to close that gap fast.




Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

I speak from playing 30k at the 1500 and 1850 level, and people rarely bring a lord of war. So the effectiveness of mass infantry can depend on point level. Because even the cheapest lords of war eating 25% of your army means you have to build around a single unit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/17 21:04:53


 
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Minnesota, USA

Another thing that can help massed infantry out is target priority. A "distraction carnifex" can really divert attention from the boys. I often use a durable firebase to present a clear and immediate threat to shift target priority away from my infantry.

There is no Zuul, there is only war!

30k Death Guard W:8 L:5: D:1

Mechanicum W:4 L:2 D:1


 
   
 
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