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Jancoran wrote:

MoridinUK wrote:
I'm new to 7th ed tau, and I dont have long before my friend arrives with his Eldar craftworld list, including an avatar and I need a list I can be sure a relative noob like me wont be too badly punished..

Battleforged is driving me nuts, I figure that darkstrider can't be taken in a hunter contingent, which is a shame!

In my collection I have:

1 commander
5-6 crisis
2 broadsides
1 ripe tide (unbuilt)
12-15 stealth suits
2 piranhas
2 devilfish
2 hammerheads
30+ firewarriors
8 count as converted fw pathfinders
20ish kroot + hunter + 2-3 kroot hounds.
6 vesipds
1 ethereal
3 sniper drones,
plenty of gun drones, and various 'count as drones'

So what do I want to do?

Some general advice given the list you just posted:
I might suggest a dual CAD. Meaning to take two separate force orgs.
That will maintain your Objective Secured on your Fire Warriors and allow you to play with 5 separate Crisis suits which can drop in.
The riptide: A must given your collection. Build it at once. Plus its really freaking cool looking.

Create a Buffmander with iridium+ Stim +Command and Control + Drone Controller +2 Marker Drones. Add him to six more Marker Drones. Use him to tank wounds with his T5 and 2+ armor while the Markerlights doom anything you want to fire the Ion Cannon at.

Ethereal + Cadre Fireblade (convert one) is boss for Fire Warriors and for Sniper Drones. You have both...

Purchase a Ghostkeel at once. its probably the only thing you "need" to buy that you don't own, to make an effective force out of this. Optimiized Stealth Cadre is just really good.

I've never taken an Ethereal at all. I'll certainly think hard about it, the cadre fireblade is sensible enough, but it is an hq choice, so In your set up, my 2 cads use 4 hqs, Buffmander for drones, ethereal, cadre and probably darkstrider?

I want to be able to do the mirror thing but I'm unsure I'll have the time or money to get the Ghostkeel before my m8 arrives this weekend!

carldooley wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
As you said it a few times before, any independent character cannot join a monstrous creature, this includes the Riptide.

which can be effectively gotten around during shooting with CFP (provided you aren't playing ITC).

I made a list that I wouldn't mind bringing to a game:
2 DBCs with a Culexus(1849 pts):
2x Dawn Blade Contingent
Commander AFP, TL, DC, EWO

3x Crisis Shas'ui 2 Burst Cannons, BKR, EWO

Riptide IA, EWO, VT

Broadside Shas'ui BKR, EWO

Aux Drone Net
6 Marker Drones
5 Marker Drones
4 Gun Drones
4 Gun Drones
Aux Ranged Support Cadre

3x Broadside Shas'ui BKR, EWO
3x Pathfinder Team BKR

DESPERATE ALLY
Culexus Assassin

Lol I just need an extra riptide and 3 more broadsides lol... Is the assassin essential? also can you deploy with both retaliation cadres low flying?

A big, relevant change if the last time you played was 5th: Crisis suits can now take two of a kind for weapons (which is not the same as twin-linked). So, the old favorite missile/plasma combo no longer makes as much sense, since it doesn't synergize especially well.

The best compliment for missiles is more missiles, and plasma goes best with more plasma (though plasma/fusion is an effective pair to take on both MEQ/TEQ and light vehicles, though it's a bit flat against AV13/14). If you want to mix it up, burst/ion and fusion/ion is effective, too. Burst/frag or ion/frag can be effective for anti-infantry, if you need to dig a lot of guys out of cover, but against Eldar you probably won't.

MoridinUK wrote:

I've never taken an Ethereal at all. I'll certainly think hard about it, the cadre fireblade is sensible enough, but it is an hq choice, so In your set up, my 2 cads use 4 hqs, Buffmander for drones, ethereal, cadre and probably darkstrider?

I want to be able to do the mirror thing but I'm unsure I'll have the time or money to get the Ghostkeel before my m8 arrives this weekend!

The Ethereal ability to add shots to Pulse weapons is invaluable. Here is some food for thought on the subject of my favorite.

Yes an irridium suit Commander with stim, a Commmand and Control Node, Onager Gauntlet, Drone Controller and two Marker Drones to lead six more in a unit is my normal setup. with that you can markerlight anything and end it. The Commander is a tank and will handle incoming fire just fine, and only has to Look Out Sir! any wounds that would be instant death basically.

 Jancoran wrote:


The Ethereal ability to add shots to Pulse weapons is invaluable. Here is some food for thought on the subject of my favorite.

Yes an irridium suit Commander with stim, a Commmand and Control Node, Onager Gauntlet, Drone Controller and two Marker Drones to lead six more in a unit is my normal setup. with that you can markerlight anything and end it. The Commander is a tank and will handle incoming fire just fine, and only has to Look Out Sir! any wounds that would be instant death basically.

A quick question on that food for thought, one he fills an etheral slot, which means I need a contingent command slot to take him in a hunter contingent.

Two how does he turn off the supreme loyalty and Failure is not an option as you suggest?

MoridinUK wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


The Ethereal ability to add shots to Pulse weapons is invaluable. Here is some food for thought on the subject of my favorite.

Yes an irridium suit Commander with stim, a Commmand and Control Node, Onager Gauntlet, Drone Controller and two Marker Drones to lead six more in a unit is my normal setup. with that you can markerlight anything and end it. The Commander is a tank and will handle incoming fire just fine, and only has to Look Out Sir! any wounds that would be instant death basically.

A quick question on that food for thought, one he fills an etheral slot, which means I need a contingent command slot to take him in a hunter contingent.

Two how does he turn off the supreme loyalty and Failure is not an option as you suggest?

I'm not certain what this means...

You can jut take it in a CAD, alongside the Hunter Contingent. A Contingent HQ is not actually required by the Hunter Contingent. They are 0-1

I didn't suggest that he turn off his Supreme Loyalty ability but am referring to the Calm of Tides ability which can go unused when you don't want him to activate it.

His Failure is Not an Option ability dosn't turn off either. i am not sure what this is in reference to, but if you mean the Ethereal Guard its simply put because Ethereal Guard dont have that rule.

But he can't turn off Supreme loyalty.. all friendly tau units re-roll failed fear,morale,pinning and regroup tests.. Or failure is not an option so it is rolled against his ld of 10. Although not using stubborn sound good when you have been caught in combat.

An eldar player love to mess with leadership, doesn't he offer a target for them to go for first?

MoridinUK wrote:
But he can't turn off Supreme loyalty.. all friendly tau units re-roll failed fear,morale,pinning and regroup tests.. Or failure is not an option so it is rolled against his ld of 10. Although not using stubborn sound good when you have been caught in combat.

An eldar player love to mess with leadership, doesn't he offer a target for them to go for first?

I'm still confused. i think you might be misunderstanding what I was saying? I didn't suggest he turned off those other things.

I know all about attacking LD. GREAT tactic. Naturally he is a good target. Everyone is in some way or other. That isn't unique to Aun'Va

I did like your thoughts on him... I'll trade up a darkstrider to try him out one day..

MoridinUK wrote:
I did like your thoughts on him... I'll trade up a darkstrider to try him out one day..

Proxy him and give it a couple of games. Its easy to do and the opponents around here don't mind. Don't know if yours do. But the hobby can get up there in price so most of us dont give a rip outside of tournaments. An empty base will do when experimenting. lol.

Hey guys... is there a consensus for how many Tetra are worth owning or fitting into most TAC lists? I see FW sells them in pairs, and the unit can be run as 1-4 Tetra.

I am thinking of buying two sets of two... is that a good choice that I will field fairly often? Should I run them as two units?

Edit: Massive apology. I had two tabs open, and was sure I was posting this in Tau Tactics. Sorry!

I'd asy two set of two, hard to get them both killed, but people will target tetras first. Though I'm unsure what their latest rules say, they used to be able to prevent scatter on a deep sstrike but I dont know if they still do that..

Double checking something, I can't take the Mont'ka Drone Net VX1-0 with with =1bs for 2 units as part of a Tau (rather than Far Sight) hunter contingent can i? or can I?

Its just a formation like any other.

The Drone Net isn't available for the Hunter Contingent, it would have to be a separate formation that wouldn't benefit from the Contingents' detachment bonuses. Ditto the Riptide Wing. I'm betting they specified they can't for balance reasons as Riptide Wing + uncompred Buffmander shenanigans would be about as stupid as it gets.

Caederes wrote:
The Drone Net isn't available for the Hunter Contingent, it would have to be a separate formation that wouldn't benefit from the Contingents' detachment bonuses. Ditto the Riptide Wing. I'm betting they specified they can't for balance reasons as Riptide Wing + uncompred Buffmander shenanigans would be about as stupid as it gets.

So it would need to be part of a CAD?

MoridinUK wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Drone Net isn't available for the Hunter Contingent, it would have to be a separate formation that wouldn't benefit from the Contingents' detachment bonuses. Ditto the Riptide Wing. I'm betting they specified they can't for balance reasons as Riptide Wing + uncompred Buffmander shenanigans would be about as stupid as it gets.

So it would need to be part of a CAD?

NO.

A Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) is a SPECIFIC thing, not a generic category! A CAD is a Detachment, like any other. Treat CAD's as Detachments. The Drone Net is its OWN Detachment that just doesn't happen to fit into the Hunter Contingent.

 Jancoran wrote:

MoridinUK wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Drone Net isn't available for the Hunter Contingent, it would have to be a separate formation that wouldn't benefit from the Contingents' detachment bonuses. Ditto the Riptide Wing. I'm betting they specified they can't for balance reasons as Riptide Wing + uncompred Buffmander shenanigans would be about as stupid as it gets.

So it would need to be part of a CAD?

NO.

A Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) is a SPECIFIC thing, not a generic category! A CAD is a Detachment, like any other. Treat CAD's as Detachments. The Drone Net is its OWN Detachment that just doesn't happen to fit into the Hunter Contingent.

OK THANKS!

As a new to 7th ed player I was unsure if auxilary formations, which it was listed as, had to belong to a specific detachment as most detachments allow 0-10 1-12 auxiliaries. But thank you none the less for clearing that up so emphatically!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick question,

Target lock, allowing the suit to fire at a different target to his unit, I assume that doesn't include his drones, IE indy char with 2 drones and a target lock joins a drone squad?
He could shoot someone else, but his drones shoot the same direction as the unit?

MoridinUK wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

MoridinUK wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Drone Net isn't available for the Hunter Contingent, it would have to be a separate formation that wouldn't benefit from the Contingents' detachment bonuses. Ditto the Riptide Wing. I'm betting they specified they can't for balance reasons as Riptide Wing + uncompred Buffmander shenanigans would be about as stupid as it gets.

So it would need to be part of a CAD?

NO.

A Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) is a SPECIFIC thing, not a generic category! A CAD is a Detachment, like any other. Treat CAD's as Detachments. The Drone Net is its OWN Detachment that just doesn't happen to fit into the Hunter Contingent.

OK THANKS!

As a new to 7th ed player I was unsure if auxilary formations, which it was listed as, had to belong to a specific detachment as most detachments allow 0-10 1-12 auxiliaries. But thank you none the less for clearing that up so emphatically!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick question,

Target lock, allowing the suit to fire at a different target to his unit, I assume that doesn't include his drones, IE indy char with 2 drones and a target lock joins a drone squad?
He could shoot someone else, but his drones shoot the same direction as the unit?

Only the suit has the upgrade. Drones would fire at the units target while he could fire atr another.

and I use caps for emphasis. some people think its yelling. Its not. So if you thought so, my apology. =)

It would have been less potentially shouty if the sentence had been a little longer than a single word but thank you for your help and attention!

Well we talk about it before the game and played it that the TL would let his war gear fire at his target, but that they also must do so.

I asked before we started because that was wrong, we agree his EWO would not as the rule talked about the models weapons and the drones are wargear.

So I had my first game and tabled him, for the loss of a crisis, piranha and 3 fire warriors... :S

I took hunter Contingent, Hunter Cadre:
Drone Commander, DC, EWO, Stims, Irdium, TL and 2 markerdrones

Ripetide

IA, Vel Tracker,
Crisis x2

2x missle pods each one Shas'vre

Piranha x1
FB, seeker missle

Broadsides x2
HYMP, SMS, Seekers,
1 x Shas'vre

3x 7 FW rulse rifles,+ Bonding knife, + Shas'vre

He handed me the game by start with everything in reserve, bar a unit of guardians, a lvl 4 farseer, Autarch and a Singls Chap on a Vyper.

I made him go first with so little on the table, I was feeling nice.


He cast 8 inch shrouded from the farseer and invisibility on the Vyper. shuffled forward 6 inches.

My turn,
MArkerlights, the two drones fired on the vyper and missed, and 4 landed on the farseer (he should have joined it to the unit not stood it behind)

The broadsides demolished the Vyper. Death by paper cuts.

The fire warriors co-ordinated fire to take out the Farseer.

Piranha had zoomed forwared droped off his drone and Fired on the Autarch but he saved it.

Ripe tide droped an overcharged Ion on the guardians, killing 3 and the warlock, wounded the Autarch but he saved.

Crisis finished the Autarch.

After than his army came on a bit at a time, the crimson hunter and the wraithlord the next turn,

My oponent was startled to find that he couldn't charge on the turn he came on from reserves, and we hunted a lot for that as we were both unsure that this could be right.

Wraithlord died to 32 co-ordinated pulse rifle shots, the crimson hunter droped to sms fire from the ripetide.

Then his wave serpent came on and his unit of 5 wraithguard armed with D weapons.

Thankfully they score 3 solid hits on my ripe tide and I save them with the invulnerable.

They almost died, the wave servants +2 reduction of penetrating to glancing was a shock as was the realization that my hundreds of s5 shots couldn't glance it! IT killed 3 fw with its wave attack, took a crisis which was done to a wound and wounded the other.

Not bad first outting but it may easily have been different if he had brought it all on at once, his worry of course is the short 12 inch range on the D weapons I presume. I didn't know the Autarch would guarantee reserves on a 2+!

i bounce back and forward with my tau tactics, ranging from heavy vehicle lists to heavy suit lists to heavy firewarrior + ethereal lists.

The ethereal bonuses to a lot of firewarriors is nothing to scoff at. The biggest threat is keeping him alive, but heres a trick:
Devilfish with Dpods.
Keep the ethereal in the devilfish. He has a 3+ jink now and 12/11/10 armor protecting him. His bubble effects are not canceled in a fish, so everyone around him still gets his effects.
Doesnt work for Aun'Va though since the devilfish cannot transport bulky units, and hes extremely bulky if memory serves. Stupid pope mobile.

I may try that tonight..

So I tried a couple of things that didn't work yesterday evening.

CAD:
DArkstrider,

Breacher team x 10
Shasui, BK,
Devilfish.

Breacher team x8

Breacher team x8
Shasui, BK,

Drone net xv Man'atu

4 x markerlight drone
4 x markerlight drone
4 x markerlight drone
4 x gun drone

Tau Retailiation CAdre

Buffmander, CnC, Puretide, meso thing.
To join Crisis
4x Crisis with 2x CIC, TL
1x Crisis with 2x FB
1x Crisis with 2x PR

2X Broadsides, HYMP, TLSMS, EWO, 1x seeker each

1x Ripetide, IA, EWO, TL SMS

Turn 1, the retaliation is low deploying, DArkstider in the fish is outflanking.

My opponent has first turn. I forgot to try to sieze.

Lack of cover, the drones jink but only 3 gun drone and 1 markerlight survive the round. He held only hawks in reserve.

Amusingly the 2 D shots from his wraithknight do nothing to the markerdrones

My 2 breachers are intact one moves into a runis the other hides behind some LOS blocking cover.

Next round of shooting from him kills the remaining drones, clips a model off my hiding breachers, then hawks land directly behind them and fail to score a hit.

Other breachers got to ground in the ruins and takes the whole of the enemies fire, they surivie with only 3 left and pass their leadership rolls.

Darkstrider is delayed.

My Crisis unit with Buffmander lands perfectly within 18 inches of the wraithknight.

My broadsides mishap and die,

Fusion crisis scatters but we roll of on whether he can see the fire prism rear armour, he can.

Plamsa Crisis gets placed a long way away by my opponent due to mis hap,

Ripe tide arrives in range of his war walkers, but far from the d weapons. He fires killing one war walker and doing one HP on another.

Plasma crisis fires at from striking scorpions but dont wound.

Fusion crisis scores an immobilized.

Breacher team wipes out hawks in one round of closer than 5 inch shots... awesome..

Crisis with commander generate 14 wounds, he armour saves all bar six and then 5 more vanish to feel no pain. The wraitknight took 1 wound.

IT is the end of turn two and late, with no markerdrones left and my broadsides gone, and a 3 and 5 year old to look after at 5am I declared, a bit early too, but his next move would be to engage the big buffed crisis in CC with the cursed knight. everything else would hit the ripetide, one unit of ranges to take out the fusion, and the scorpians the plasma guy.

I don't like having to go second as Tau not one bit, very dissapointed about the knight, I've no idea how to kill it as I have no D weapons and the only one we do have is short range on a £90 model I don't own! :(

Giving he only has 2 D shots a turn I think my best bet is to ignore him... sadly...

Any advice for tonights list? I'm back to a dronemander and a hunter contingent I think.. He certainly learned his lesson about markerlights

You have some choices in my view:

Stormsurges, 4 Str D long range missiles each (needs markerlights).

Forgeworld KX139 Supremacy armor.

Melta Crisis

Volume of fire from riptides/Broadsides

How many melta Crisis to hurt the knight? He will still get his 4+ feel no pain...

I have no stormsurge, certainly no kx139 sigh,

only 1 ripetide and 2 crisis... If I went that route, I'd need the railgun on the ripetide right?

WKs are a pain in the ass to hurt because nobody really can field enough S8+ weapons in a standard game.

Melta suits would work, but its a lot of them.
Lets assume you have the marker support to make them BS5 and ignores cover:
5 suits = 10 meltas, at BS5 thats 8.5 hits (1 expected miss, one iffy miss) on dice averages.
4s to wound, thats now 4-5 wounds.
No cover
Invul save + FNP = 2-3 unsaved wounds
FNP only = 3-4 unsaved wounds.

Thats strictly average dice with heavy marker support. It would take you on average 2 turns to kill a WK with 5 melta suits, but your bigger problem is keeping all of them alive since 18" range means the WK is going to charge unless you get one hell of a jetpack move away or out of sight.
The other problem is thats 260pts w/o drones and w/o a 3rd Support slot selected to attempt to kill a model barely more expensive than that. WK is way too undercosted.

Riptides actually are pretty bad at hurting WKs. The Ion Accelerator only does 1 wound that wounds on a 4+, or potentially 3 hits that wound on a 5+. He'd actually have better odds of hurting it if he went HBC and just hoped for Rending luck, which is still pretty bad.

Also FNP on a GMC is a 5+, not 4+. Very very very few things have access to better than 5+ FNP anymore, and i cant even think of one off the top of my head but i know they exist and the WK isnt one of them.

Ah I read the feel no pain rules wrong "on a roll of 4 or less you must take the wound as normal" and my brain in a hurry went 4+... ah, so my cics did hurt him more than one wound... still....

Nova the HBC?

I think ignoring it is about the best move. other wise it is just too many points and too vulnerable to counter?

Pretty much.

It hurts but if you cant reliably damage something youre usually better off ignoring it. It sucks because its D weapons, but 2 D shots is far less painful than 2/3's an army's worth of dakka. Kill the most dangerous thing you can reliably kill first, not the most dangerous thing regardless of how tough it is.

Also fun tidbit: unless i am mistaken, which is possible, Wraithknights are not immune to Blind. it does have a stupidly high init for a golem so its unlikely to go off, but if it does oh boy will it piss him off lol.

Blind? How would I Blind him? Grenades? You mean choose to attack him in CC? Are you one of Far Sights mad nuts? lol

Remember that photon grenades don't blind in CC - they blind with a shooting attack - so that's not quite as insane as it sounds.

i throw a photon grenade any time i can, its only 8" but often if i had rapid fire one turn im usually able to throw a grenade next turn after he moved forward a bit.
Though i conga-line it a bit, so only 1-2 guys are actually close while the rest fall back to around 15" lol

Theres also the Y'vahra that causes blind.

CAn drones still get in devilfish?