Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 LordofHats wrote:
I don't like girl scout cookies...

Burn heretic

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in Offices, we shall fight on the front of grocery store, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in internet sales, we shall defend our beloved cookie, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the selling grounds, we shall fight in the forums and in the chat rooms, we shall fight in the meeting places of the Girl Scouts; we shall never surrender the deliciousness of our Somoas.

#Somoasforlife

 LordofHats wrote:
I don't like girl scout cookies...

The enemy of my enemy and all that.

 LordofHats wrote:
I don't like girl scout cookies...

Not gonna lie, I think the Boy Scouts have the better product lineup. Jalapeno Cheddar popcorn and white chocholate pretzels > all Girl Scout cookies.

Actually, having written that, I want to see a Girl Scout v. Boy Scout war a la the franchise wars of Demolition Man. In the year 2032, all Scouts will be <insert here> Scouts.

 Orlanth wrote:
Transgender at nine. Is that below the age of legal culpability?

No permanent physical changes or such take place with a trans child. The very most that happens is they are offered hormone blockers that stop the development of puberty until they are legally "culpable" as you put it. At any time they decide to stop taking the blockers, puberty rolls in as normal.
It's less a 'forced choice by the parents' as some view it, and more an abstaining from having a child choose until they are old enough to know for sure.
Considering puberty can hit between 9 and 21 in outlying cases, it's no big deal. Missing out on a little muscle mass and voice development if you're a biological fella. Hormone levels are monitored throughout, along with mental state and physical development.


...I've never had Girl Scout cookies, they don't sell them here.

This is probably a good time to point out that our Arnott's Mint Slice are superior to your Thin Mints, America

 LordofHats wrote:
I don't like girl scout cookies...

Then we both agree that thin mints suck












and somoa is the bestest cookie

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
...I've never had Girl Scout cookies, they don't sell them here.

They are amazing.

 Ouze wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
...I've never had Girl Scout cookies, they don't sell them here.

They are amazing.

They're really not. I've never known a Brit, including myself, to like them. The UK simply has far superior biscuits. Same goes for chocolate.

I can't take anyone seriously claiming "superior biscuit" when the country's biscuits are mainly known for being dry, dry as the desert or dry as your mouth after a night at the pub. That's the reason for why the British have their tea-time thingy, no way you could ever wolf down those "biscuits" without any sort of fluid!

 Ouze wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
...I've never had Girl Scout cookies, they don't sell them here.

They are amazing.

And now I'm sad.
Usually the stuff we don't have here (candy corn, corn dogs, spray cheese) is has folk saying "you're not missing much".

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
...I've never had Girl Scout cookies, they don't sell them here.

They are amazing.

And now I'm sad.
Usually the stuff we don't have here (candy corn, corn dogs, spray cheese) is has folk saying "you're not missing much".

Who said that about the first two? I will fight them.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I think I need the question rephrased.

"This kid is too young to know what they really want,

Precisely this....

You cant know enough to actually be able to commit a crime at nine in most countries, though the US has regional variations on legal culpability. The child is also well below the age at which sexual awareness is acknowledged by society.

 Ouze wrote:

how can their parents/society/evil SJWs/whoever allow them to do this!?!??!!"

.....but without the hysteria.

Whether or not the kid and their parents deal with the issue doesn't really bear on people being dicks to a kid trying to sell cookies.

Just buy the cookies or say you don't want them, but don't try and get a nine year old to hear one's screed on social identity.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I think I need the question rephrased.

"This kid is too young to know what they really want,

Precisely this....

You cant know enough to actually be able to commit a crime at nine in most countries, though the US has regional variations on legal culpability. The child is also well below the age at which sexual awareness is acknowledged by society.

 Ouze wrote:

how can their parents/society/evil SJWs/whoever allow them to do this!?!??!!"

.....but without the hysteria.

I pretty much laid out up above how the medical treatment prevents the kid or the parent from making a damaging uninformed choice due to age.
Without that in place, I could see it being a huge issue. But pressing pause until you are informed enough, seems a more logical answer on face value.
It's not about forcing a choice or indulging a choice, it's about making sure they cannot damage themselves (and parents cannot push for it) before being a young adult. Allowing exploration and understanding of themselves without pressure.

If I were a parent and my child approached me with this, perhaps I'd be less "oh that's wonderful", because kids are very certain of many things at a young age.
However that's why child psychologists exist, to discern the urge to be a dinosaur from the inability to cope with being born male.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I think I need the question rephrased.

"This kid is too young to know what they really want,

Precisely this....

You cant know enough to actually be able to commit a crime at nine in most countries, though the US has regional variations on legal culpability. The child is also well below the age at which sexual awareness is acknowledged by society.

I think this child is better able to make a judgement on that than you or anyone else.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

I think this child is better able to make a judgement on that than you or anyone else.

No, no and no. Children do not know what is good for them. Period. This isn't even up for discussion.

Children lack the ability to think long-term and need (good) parenting in order to get to the level where they can make such decisions. In regards to the case at hand, it's best to let him do what he wants and passively support his decisions. Be supportive, but neutral. The boy isn't actually debating on whether he feels like a boy or a girl, at the moment, he is just testing his parental relationship, challenging it even. Be neutral and let him do what he wants, show that you care for him and respect his decisions, but do not actively support it by completely changing everything to his will. Show him that you support his decisions, that you go with him whereever he wants to go, that you will always be there, but also show him that it's his decision, not yours.

I am actually very surprised society allows a transgender pre-teen.

Perhaps I should not be, the fear of being labeled 'transphobic', and associating witchhunts means that this sort of stuff gets catered for without societal monitoring.

Yet a pre-teen in many developed countries cant be charged with a crime, due to a lack of understansdin g of criminal responsibility, and this is well before the age at which society determines a person is able to choose their own sexual behaviour, vote or do other adult things.
Despite this it is not too young, for some reason, for a child not to experiment with gender switching. This is clearly an adult choice and an adult matter pressed into the decision making of someone way too young to make that sort of call.

It doesn't matter if the child is given non irreversible treatment, the flat fact is that they have the treatment at all, or have a transgender identity demand listened to is the issue. We generally don't allow pre-teen children to watch movies with adult content, in the event that it damages them, so why should transgender even be allowed to be an issue at that age?

Old enough to enlist or vote or marry means old enough to make an informed personal choice on gender identity. It could even be argued that because transgender demands were pandered to the child in question is mentally endangered as they have had development of their natural birth gender interrupted. An adult perspective is different to that of a child, a pre-teen transgender child will have inadequate experience of their birth gender and their development will be destabilised as a result.

 Orlanth wrote:

Despite this it is not too young, for some reason, for a child not to experiment with gender switching. This is clearly an adult choice and an adult matter pressed into the decision making of someone way too young to make that sort of call

What is childhood but a years long experience in defining oneself?

People are thinking about this way to hard. If the kid wants to be trans, no one has any legitimate reason to say no. It's not a crime. It's not voting in an election, going to war, or driving a potentially lethal piece of machinery. It's an issue of personal identity. That's half of what children spend childhood doing. Putting themselves together.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I can't take anyone seriously claiming "superior biscuit" when the country's biscuits are mainly known for being dry, dry as the desert or dry as your mouth after a night at the pub. That's the reason for why the British have their tea-time thingy, no way you could ever wolf down those "biscuits" without any sort of fluid!

I'll take a Bourbon, Custard Cream or Hob Nob over any girl scout cookies

 LordofHats wrote:


People are thinking about this way to hard. If the kid wants to be trans, no one has any legitimate reason to say no. It's not a crime. It's not voting in an election, going to war, or driving a potentially lethal piece of machinery. It's an issue of personal identity. That's half of what children spend childhood doing. Putting themselves together.

The kid isn't "transgender" and cannot say that he is either. Even sexual orientation is hanging up in there until puberty strikes and people actually wanting to slap the transgender term on others is just up and beyond me. It's /normal/ for kids to have phases of wanting / desiring to be of the opposite sex, even so when you're a child in times when feeling special in any way somehow means you're better. Saying that this immediately means that he has the profound ability to reflect on himself even young adults still struggle with is ridiculous and far off reality. It's like sueing a child for incest when a boy wants to marry his mother.

Let a child be a child and stop trying to push agendas with it. Jesus.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The kid isn't "transgender" and cannot say that he is either.

Really? Cause the OP would seem to suggest this is a flawed notion.

Let a child be a child and stop trying to push agendas with it. Jesus.

Yes. Do. If the kid wants to wear a dress, let them wear a dress. Maybe lets not automatically assume some little boy in a dress or girl with a short hair cut is the vessel of their parent's political agendas? Even if that were true, which it very well might be, so what? Should we ban parents from taking their kids to church/synagogue/mosque? Can't have them brainwashing their kids with religious ideology before they can 'appreciate' it. We'll just lock all the kids in a room and leave them there until they're 18. That way, they'll only go out in the world when they're matured and ready.

 LordofHats wrote:


Yes. Do. If the kid wants to wear a dress, let them wear a dress. Maybe lets not automatically assume some little boy in a dress or girl with a short hair cut is the vessel of their parent's political agendas? Even if that were true, which it very well might be, so what? Should we ban parents from taking their kids to church/synagogue/mosque? Can't have them brainwashing their kids with religious ideology before they can 'appreciate' it. We'll just lock all the kids in a room and leave them there until they're 18. That way, they'll only go out in the world when they're matured and ready.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Children lack the ability to think long-term and need (good) parenting in order to get to the level where they can make such decisions. In regards to the case at hand, it's best to let him do what he wants and passively support his decisions. Be supportive, but neutral. The boy isn't actually debating on whether he feels like a boy or a girl, at the moment, he is just testing his parental relationship, challenging it even. Be neutral and let him do what he wants, show that you care for him and respect his decisions, but do not actively support it by completely changing everything to his will. Show him that you support his decisions, that you go with him whereever he wants to go, that you will always be there, but also show him that it's his decision, not yours.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The kid isn't "transgender" and cannot say that he is either.

Really? Cause the OP would seem to suggest this is a flawed notion.

What's mainly flawed about this is that we even discuss an article from Yahoo News / The Christian Science Monitor. Why don't we discuss the Egyptian laptop theory next? Sounds interesting. Ahhhh, Yahoo news!

 Sigvatr wrote:
What's mainly flawed about this is that we even discuss an article from Yahoo News / The Christian Science Monitor.

Then why post in the thread at all?

Why don't we discuss the Egyptian laptop theory next? Sounds interesting. Ahhhh, Yahoo news!

I'm just saying. When the aliens were helping the Egyptians build the pyramids to hide the hole to the center of the Earth after the Lizardman Wars, why wouldn't a few Egyptians have gotten their hands on some laptops? How else were they going to work the Star Gate without a dialing device?

Sigvatr wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

I think this child is better able to make a judgement on that than you or anyone else.

No, no and no. Children do not know what is good for them. Period. This isn't even up for discussion.

Evidenced by the fact that there have been many serious studies into this and that many different people across many different cultures have very different ideas about this, it clearly is up for discussion.
Regardless, at age 9, I knew perfectly well that I was a boy. If the child in question is just so sure he/she is a girl, then what is the objection?

Sigvatr wrote:Children lack the ability to think long-term and need (good) parenting in order to get to the level where they can make such decisions. In regards to the case at hand, it's best to let him do what he wants and passively support his decisions. Be supportive, but neutral. The boy isn't actually debating on whether he feels like a boy or a girl, at the moment, he is just testing his parental relationship, challenging it even.

And of course you know this better than the child herself and those close around her, without even ever having met this child or knowing anything about her apart from the story in the OP? Are you some kind of superhero then, to be capable of seeing into people's minds without even knowing them? Why are you assuming so much about someone you don't even know?

Orlanth wrote:I am actually very surprised society allows a transgender pre-teen.

Perhaps I should not be, the fear of being labeled 'transphobic', and associating witchhunts means that this sort of stuff gets catered for without societal monitoring.

Yet a pre-teen in many developed countries cant be charged with a crime, and this is well before the age at which society determines a person is able to choose their own sexual behaviour, vote or do other adult things.
Despite this it is not too young, for some reason, for a child not to experiment with gender switching. This is clearlty an adult choice and an adult matter.

Not clear at all. Why would it be? Why shouldn't a child experiment with his/her gender identity?

Orlanth wrote:Old enough to enlist or vote or marry means old enough to make an informed personal choice on gender identity.

"Old enough to enlist or vote or marry"? How old is that exactly? And how is this constantly shifting, culturally determined standard of when a person is old enough to do those things relevant to making a choice on whether you are a boy or girl? I fail to see the link between voting and gender identity. When I was 9, I had no knowledge of or interest in politics whatsoever, but I did have a very clear idea of my gender identity. There is a clear difference.

Can we go back to playfully arguing over cookies? Please?

I had a Samoa once, but it told me it wanted to be a Thin Mint.

I didn't judge and ate it anyway.

Do the girl scouts sells cupcakes? I like cupcakes. Or even just normal cake. Really like ice cream cake.

Guess I'm just not a cookie person...

 d-usa wrote:
I had a Samoa once, but it told me it wanted to be a Thin Mint.

I didn't judge and ate it anyway.

That Samoa was just packaged. It has no reason to even think about being a Thin Mint and on the other hand, shouldn't even consider it. Check the ingredients! Thin Mints need mint, but that Samoa had no mint, There is no logical way that Samoa can be a Thin Mint; it clearly has a mental disorder.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I had a Samoa once, but it told me it wanted to be a Thin Mint.

I didn't judge and ate it anyway.

That Samoa was just packaged. It has no reason to even think about being a Thin Mint and on the other hand, shouldn't even consider it. Check the ingredients! Thin Mints need mint, but that Samoa had no mint, There is no logical way that Samoa can be a Thin Mint; it clearly has a mental disorder.

Its' bakers were clearly just indulging its whims...

I hate it when SJBs force their own concepts of identity on their baked goods.