Why does everyone hate the Inferno Pistol?

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**TheManWithNoPlan**

I recently played a few games with my Blood Angels in a non-competitive but still playing only to win kind of environment, and on multiple occasions people asked why I took the Inferno Pistol instead of a Combi-Melta or Power Fist or even Melta-Bombs, they all said it was the worst weapon in the Codex.

I can see why people prefer Combi-Meltas for the extra range of a full Meltagun (even though it is only one shot). But I can't see why people hate the Inferno Pistol, and then take a Power Fist instead. If you're comfortable to get close enough to hit it with a Fist or Bombs, why are you not comfortable getting close enough to get the 3" Melta?

I can't be the only one who is confused by this. Thoughts?

**GoonBandito**

Generally all the pistols are considered 'trash', because they're 15pts for a weapon you'll probably fire once in a game. Once you're in close combat, it doesn't give you anything extra that a Bolt Pistol doesn't already give you.

Still, I don't mind the Inferno Pistol on my Sisters for gaks and giggles. I don't look at it as an Anti-Armour thing (that's just a bonus that you can sometimes make use of). I look at it as an "Instant Death, Ignore Armour Save against (most) Marines" weapon.

**jade_angel**

Yep, that's it on the button - it's a plasma pistol that doesn't get hot and has ID vs T4. Half range, but what the hey - I might be close enough anyway. Too expensive, but all pistols are (except the Harlequin Neuro Disruptor. That's what pistols should be.)

**HoundsofDemos**

Most pistol upgrades are cost to much for their effect. It's true the combi is one shot but the chance of firing a six inch weapon more than one is unlikely. As for the the fist, it's not worth it on many units these days but one charm assault still has is if you get there your there till you kill everyone.

**CrownAxe**

TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
I recently played a few games with my Blood Angels in a non-competitive but still playing only to win kind of environment, and on multiple occasions people asked why I took the Inferno Pistol instead of a Combi-Melta or Power Fist or even Melta-Bombs, they all said it was the worst weapon in the Codex.

I can see why people prefer Combi-Meltas for the extra range of a full Meltagun (even though it is only one shot). But I can't see why people hate the Inferno Pistol, and then take a Power Fist instead. If you're comfortable to get close enough to hit it with a Fist or Bombs, why are you not comfortable getting close enough to get the 3" Melta?

I can't be the only one who is confused by this. Thoughts?

I don't have to make it to 3" to use a Power Fist because I get a 2d6" charge to do way more damage (3-4 S9 ap2 attacks on the charge against back armor is way better then a single melta shot)

**Slayer-Fan123**

Because they're 15 points for a weapon that might as well be replaced by a Melta Bomb for cheaper?

Quite frankly any of the special pistols should be 5 points max.

**th3maninblak**

The only place they're really worth it are on assault marines, who can akimbo them alongside 2 melta shots in a pod. That or the occasional IC, usually with bs5.

**ionusx**

because nobody cc's anymore, pistol upgrades are worthless

**RazgrizOne**

And when you blow up a tank, there is a good chance the said vehicule blows up with your guys.

**Martel732**

And its range sucks.

**Valkyrie**

If you're within range to destroy a vehicle with the Inferno, you're almost certainly within range to use Melta Bombs, which are cheaper and more effective. In CC the Inferno gives you no advantage over a Bolt Pistol. Bit of a waste to be honest.

**Slaphead**

Valkyrie wrote:
If you're within range to destroy a vehicle with the Inferno, you're almost certainly within range to use Melta Bombs, which are cheaper and more effective. In CC the Inferno gives you no advantage over a Bolt Pistol. Bit of a waste to be honest.

This is pretty much it.

**Roknar**

Eh, how would they be more effective? They're both 2d6 S8 with a single attack, except you have to use the inferior melee hit chart with the bomb. And since you're not technically engaged you can still shoot it in melee vs a tank. Monstrous creatures are a different story.

You can't use a melta bomb to ID a model in a unit you're about to assault. And the luxury of an inferno pistol is to have a real melta that still counts towards you're CC bonus for two weapons. The price you pay being range. I also think it looks cooler. Back in the Witch hunter days the inferno pistol was pretty much an auto-include on my jump canoness, and she was rightly feared, even popping the odd land raider. And nothing is stopping you from still using melta bombs.

It lost some of its appeal due to vehicles being tougher in general, but I wouldn't write it off completetly. I also don't think it's as expensive as most people consider it to be. Half of the time I'm standing next to the tank with a normal melta anyway, and combi meltas are also 10 points, but can only be used once. So to me it's pretty much a normal melta gun except you have to be standing next to the tank.

I'm not saying you should replace all your melta guns with inferno pistols, but if you find yourself in punching distance of tanks more often than not, they're an option to consider.

**HoundsofDemos**

I can pay 15 points for a weapon I'll never fire more than once if that unless my opponent is an idiot or I can take a combi Melta that can also be shot one time, but has longer range and leaves you with a bolter afterward.

With how bad assault is in this addition outside of deathstars, losing one attack isn't that bad and if that is a major concern then just stay with the bolt pistol.

**Roknar**

Depends on your meta I guess. I've had a few games where I would have liked to have an additional shot. But I suppose my group plays a different game compared to the rest of the internet, since assault is widely used and csm are absolutely viable without a single mark of nurgle in sight.

**Nevelon**

Roknar wrote:
Depends on your meta I guess. I've had a few games where I would have liked to have an additional shot. But I suppose my group plays a different game compared to the rest of the internet, since assault is widely used and csm are absolutely viable without a single mark of nurgle in sight.

There are a lot of things that are nice to have in certain circumstances, but aren’t worth paying the points for every game. Pistols are like that. It’s not like they are bad they still blow things up pretty good. But are they 15 points good? Could those points be spent more efficiently elsewhere? IMHO, yes.

That said, I’ve seen crazy seraphim drops where a squad over massively overpriced sisters successfully DS’d into inferno pistol melta range. Would I recommend doing it? Heck no! There were so many things that could have gone wrong there. Are there better way to blow up tanks? Yup. Was it crazy awesome cool and hilarious? Yes, yes it was.

**Roknar**

I never said that they were epic sauce lol. I agree that they are too expensive. But it's not like you suddenly gain 100 points by talking a combi-melta over an inferno pistol.

I'm gonna exaggerate (massively) here, but sometimes I get the impression that people act like any unit/gun/item/etc that isn't the absolute best ever conceived for your army, is simply trash.

The existence of units or whatever that are almost universally useful/good, doesn't mean that the rest shouldn't be taken. It depends on a bunch of stuff. For instance, some people say that csm bikers are objectively better than raptors for anything that matters. Fine, let's roll with that. Now good luck making a night Lords army with no jump units.

I guess, what I'm saying is that people hate them due to having niche value only. And the notion that melee in general is an too weak. But if that niche is something you find yourself in often enough, then you may as well consider taking one.
And contrary to popular belief, those fringe cases do happen. The general meta sense that I'm getting from dakka is purely competitive for the most part, which plays a large part in shunning stuff like inferno pistols imho. So anything that only works every other game is considered worthless.

In this case, it's only like what, a 5 point price difference? So I'd say it depends on which meta your asking whether they are hated or not. They're certainly not warp talon bad.

**Leth**

The problem is that whenever I make a list I always find that I want more things than I can take. I have had to nearly completely restructure a list for want of 5-10 points as some combo would not work.

So for anything where it is nice but I could find something almost as good for cheaper it becomes a no-brainer.

Also it becomes really hard to justify spending additional points on things when they are going to die just the same

**HoundsofDemos**

I'll admit I change my answers on questions like this depending on context and what forum I'm in. I'm not a very competitive player and many of my post reflect that especially in the general chat. However when it comes to tactical questions I'm willing to put that away for a second an analyse things based on what I believe to actually be the best option. Your correct in stating that on it's the pistols cost isn't a big deal and might be useful, but this can lead to death by a thousand cuts for a list. 5 points here, 10 points there in bad options can add up quickly and soon you have a lot of fat in your list. Blood Angels are already in a tough spot, I can't see holding back even more as a tactic.

**Red Marine**

They cost too much for what they do. I use them semi regularly because Dante has one. I certainly get to fire it more than once, but rarely twice at its intended prey.

If the special pistols were cheaper tthey'd see some use. Cowboy sergeants would certainly be popular. As it stands the majority of SM upgrades are mysteriously overpriced, like flak missles or powerfists.

**HoundsofDemos**

PP, Grav and Inferno should be five points to ten in my view that's pretty much the only way to make them worth it.

**Nevelon**

Roknar wrote:I never said that they were epic sauce lol. I agree that they are too expensive. But it's not like you suddenly gain 100 points by talking a combi-melta over an inferno pistol.

I'm gonna exaggerate (massively) here, but sometimes I get the impression that people act like any unit/gun/item/etc that isn't the absolute best ever conceived for your army, is simply trash.

The existence of units or whatever that are almost universally useful/good, doesn't mean that the rest shouldn't be taken. It depends on a bunch of stuff. For instance, some people say that csm bikers are objectively better than raptors for anything that matters. Fine, let's roll with that. Now good luck making a night Lords army with no jump units.

I guess, what I'm saying is that people hate them due to having niche value only. And the notion that melee in general is an too weak. But if that niche is something you find yourself in often enough, then you may as well consider taking one.
And contrary to popular belief, those fringe cases do happen. The general meta sense that I'm getting from dakka is purely competitive for the most part, which plays a large part in shunning stuff like inferno pistols imho. So anything that only works every other game is considered worthless.

In this case, it's only like what, a 5 point price difference? So I'd say it depends on which meta your asking whether they are hated or not. They're certainly not warp talon bad.

There is a lot of extremism online. People focus on what is the best. Toughest army, nastiest list, best options, etc. Some of it has a lot of math behind it. Some of it is based an an assumed metagame, normally the tournament circuit. Those are the kind of questions we can answer here. But it is not the entirety of the game. If you play at a more casual store, bringing a lean, mean, optimized list might be the worst thing you can do. If you can’t get a game because everyone thinks you are a cheesemonger, nobody is happy.

I like to think about efficiency and effectiveness. For the most part, the units in the game are effective at their role. Some more then others, and their are exceptions or provisos that need to be applied to a few. But efficiency is all over the place. Some units don’t do their job well for the points they cost. When trying to make your list more competitive, this is something you need to focus on.

I take sub-par options all the time. I like them, they are fluffy and fun. But I acknowledge that I do, and generally try to tighten up my list in other spots to compensate. And if I’m building a list for a tournament, leave them on the shelf. When giving advice I try not to tell people not to take units they want to, even if they are not the best. But I will tell them games might be a little harder, or that they need to do something else to shore up the weakness in their army. Unless you are playing at the top tables of a tournament, where you spent those last 10 points is not going to be a huge deal. What kind of mood Lady Luck is in will be more relevant to the game’s outcome.

HoundsofDemos wrote:PP, Grav and Inferno should be five points to ten in my view that's pretty much the only way to make them worth it.

At 10 points I’d still probably not take many. 5 would see them all over the place. I’d honestly value them around 8, but that’s an awkward number. Roughly half where they are now.

**Red Marine**

Yeah 5-10. Damn would that make asm worth it. To hell with 1 attack chainfists.

**talljosh85**

Deepstriking with Dante in the old BA codex (no scatter FTW!) made an extra inferno pistol or two useful; you could land 1" away from a tank, a couple inferno shots, and poof! no more tank. Against IG tank lines this was fun, get really close to a couple of Leman Russes or Manticores etc, kill one then hop over and kill another, or break off and kill two a turn. In current edition, I sometimes run one with my SG, but my sisters don't get them, nor would I spend the points elsewhere. Its 15 points that could be three extra melta bombs.

**HoundsofDemos**

I wish it wasn't so awkward to price things in anything other than multiples of 5. any time an option is something a lot of the time you might as well round up cause your wasting points.

**MechaEmperor7000**

GW never balanced pistols right because on top of usually costing the same as the full variants, they always had crap range and 1 bullet just doesn't go as far as it should anymore.

The Inferno Pistol suffers this in spades since you pretty much have to be within kicking range of a tank to make it worthwhile, and at that point you can literally just charge in with either a power fist or melta bombs. If you try to use it on anything else, you'd either find yourself being counter-charged (monstrous creatures) or have the pistol be complete overkill and ineffective at the same time (it will kill the crap out of 1 infantry model, but infantry units generally wouldn't care about 1 casualty).

**HoundsofDemos**

They over value the extra attack way to much. It's a nice bonus but doesn't make up for the cost.

**Roknar**

Spoiler:

Nevelon wrote:
Roknar wrote:I never said that they were epic sauce lol. I agree that they are too expensive. But it's not like you suddenly gain 100 points by talking a combi-melta over an inferno pistol.

I'm gonna exaggerate (massively) here, but sometimes I get the impression that people act like any unit/gun/item/etc that isn't the absolute best ever conceived for your army, is simply trash.

The existence of units or whatever that are almost universally useful/good, doesn't mean that the rest shouldn't be taken. It depends on a bunch of stuff. For instance, some people say that csm bikers are objectively better than raptors for anything that matters. Fine, let's roll with that. Now good luck making a night Lords army with no jump units.

I guess, what I'm saying is that people hate them due to having niche value only. And the notion that melee in general is an too weak. But if that niche is something you find yourself in often enough, then you may as well consider taking one.
And contrary to popular belief, those fringe cases do happen. The general meta sense that I'm getting from dakka is purely competitive for the most part, which plays a large part in shunning stuff like inferno pistols imho. So anything that only works every other game is considered worthless.

In this case, it's only like what, a 5 point price difference? So I'd say it depends on which meta your asking whether they are hated or not. They're certainly not warp talon bad.

There is a lot of extremism online. People focus on what is the best. Toughest army, nastiest list, best options, etc. Some of it has a lot of math behind it. Some of it is based an an assumed metagame, normally the tournament circuit. Those are the kind of questions we can answer here. But it is not the entirety of the game. If you play at a more casual store, bringing a lean, mean, optimized list might be the worst thing you can do. If you can’t get a game because everyone thinks you are a cheesemonger, nobody is happy.

I like to think about efficiency and effectiveness. For the most part, the units in the game are effective at their role. Some more then others, and their are exceptions or provisos that need to be applied to a few. But efficiency is all over the place. Some units don’t do their job well for the points they cost. When trying to make your list more competitive, this is something you need to focus on.

I take sub-par options all the time. I like them, they are fluffy and fun. But I acknowledge that I do, and generally try to tighten up my list in other spots to compensate. And if I’m building a list for a tournament, leave them on the shelf. When giving advice I try not to tell people not to take units they want to, even if they are not the best. But I will tell them games might be a little harder, or that they need to do something else to shore up the weakness in their army. Unless you are playing at the top tables of a tournament, where you spent those last 10 points is not going to be a huge deal. What kind of mood Lady Luck is in will be more relevant to the game’s outcome.

HoundsofDemos wrote:PP, Grav and Inferno should be five points to ten in my view that's pretty much the only way to make them worth it.

At 10 points I’d still probably not take many. 5 would see them all over the place. I’d honestly value them around 8, but that’s an awkward number. Roughly half where they are now.

I pretty much agree with everything you said. But I want to add that people here are comparing them to melta bombs a lot. Which I think is a mistake. The inferno pistol isn't competing with melta bombs imho, rather it is competing with the other 2 melta options.
In which case it is "only" a 5 point difference. And the OP said it was in a non competitive meta, where 5 points don't have quite the same impact.

So as far as I see it, you already have all the melta bombs you wanted. The bombs serve a slightly different role imho, not to mention you can take both.So if you want to bring a melta, you have a choice between a normal melta, combi melta or the pistol. With the pistol costing a mere 5 points more over the other options. Which is too expensise, but still possible to fit into your list occasionally. Although I am assuming you're building different lists all the time and/or people aren't building the same lists rather than trying to maximize the utmost out of one.
Which one you take depends on your list.

**koooaei**

They're functional for a SoB canoness.
The thing is +1 attack rarely makes any difference for wielders of such pistol. While 5 pts and 3" range does. Don't know, maybe sanguinary guard could utilise them but you'd be paying astronomical points for it.

**Yoyoyo**

Roknar wrote:
I'm gonna exaggerate (massively) here, but sometimes I get the impression that people act like any unit/gun/item/etc that isn't the absolute best ever conceived for your army, is simply trash.

That's hardly an exaggeration!