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 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Removing pts wouldn't be so bad. You could just use MSRP instead. Instead of exchanging army lists you would just exchange receipts. You could even do away with all the dice rolling and moving models around. Just total up the receipts and whoever has the highest number wins.

Shh... GW might hear you.

Has it crossed anyone's mind that AoS might be paving the way for a new Warhammer fantasy game with a new rulebook, points costs, ranks, etc. etc.? I could see them using the 40k end times to do the same thing as all these formations are getting out of control and killing the game imo.

p.s. Where are my plastic SoB's at GW?

 mjl7atlas wrote:

p.s. Where are my plastic SoB's at GW?

Well you see. In the far future of the 51st millennium, the Emprah goes hurtling through the universe holding onto the Milky Way but he gets saved by the void Dragon and with the help of the God of Squats, he simultaneously defensively deep squats every race and reforges the souls of the goodest boys and girls into Squallforged Immortals. The goodest of the good that can never really die and they're definitely not Space Marines but they can be girls too so you just get shiny new gold kits with no boobplate and no faces and square jawlines that you can pretend are nuns in SPAAAAAAACE.

Noooo don't touch horus heresy!

 hanshotfirst wrote:
Noooo don't touch horus heresy!

Okay like I know time is mutable and chaos is fickle and evil gods playthings yada yada. But I still can't work out how a big shake up in the *future* would undo the *past*. You're gonna have to run that one by me again.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Removing pts wouldn't be so bad. You could just use MSRP instead. Instead of exchanging army lists you would just exchange receipts. You could even do away with all the dice rolling and moving models around. Just total up the receipts and whoever has the highest number wins.

This! Too bad I can only exalt once! You sir win the internet.

When GW removes points, $$$$ becomes the new army builder unit.

Seriously look at any game of Age of Sigmar. The side with the more expensive army will win!

In theory, 'Formations only, no points' could work.

However that would mean all Formations would have to be balanced with each other and equal in power level (which they won't be) and even then it would lead to armies being very restrictive and stale.

As far as the End times thing: apparently in the new (now confirmed) Space Wolves:Wulfen codex, Fenris is destroyed by the Dark Angels, and apparently the two biggest 'dark secrets' in 40k get let out of the bag (Wulfen and the Fallen).



So, I'll say it looks a little more likely.

Wait...the Dark Angels and Space Wolves are officially at war with each other?

Man, sure kind of settles the whole debate on how epic, badass and totally undefeatable the Fang is, and the Wolves by extension.

Can't wait to see how this plays out.

I wouldnt mind an endtimes, but the changing of rules will do it in for me.
But again, GW knows how bad AOS is doing, they are not gonna do that for 40k. the reason it happened to fantasy is because it started to fail

Well dam.... well finally the plot is advancing YES at last!

Oh gak.

They finally really did it.

You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

The even better part about it: The Dark Angels were tricked into doing it by the Changeling who was impersonating Azreal.

So wait... that means Chaos technically won something...
I expect GW to come out in 3 months time and say this never happened.

That happens all the fething time

Bastard Changeling.

If they've even the slightest shred of sense left to them they better get to work on that retcon quick-sharp, because I guarantee you for every person who's jumping for joy at this idea there will be five or ten folk out there in the world going "Wait, they blew up my faction's home planet and killed a bunch of characters I like?! feth this, I'm out." - you can't get people to invest the ridiculous amounts of time and money required to get into GW games and then just feth about with the stuff that drew many folk in in the first place, because the investment of that much emotional energy into something inspires a sense of connection and ownership.

It's why an evolving storyline is fundamentally incompatible with a hobby that requires players to funnel in their creativity to such a degree - everyone who likes the background will have their own "headcannon" version of what happens when the clock does hit midnight, and you can be damn sure that for most people it won't include their own favoured aspects of the fluff being mangled, which just pisses folk off.

Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

People still bought Superman merchandise when he died.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

People still bought Superman merchandise when he died.

Ah good oh, implying that people who're in the hobby for different reasons than you and so value different parts of it to you must not be adults.

Some folk don't consider their models to be interchangeable game pieces, for a fair few actually they only have value in the context of the fiction, so drastically changing the fiction in ways they don't like is hardly likely to make them more enthusiastic to play, particularly if it's combined with similarly drastic rules changes they also dislike. But hey, to prove that hypothesis GW would have to have done something extremely similar in the recent past and have caused substantial numbers of people to walk away or move to other systems explicitly because of a combination of massive background changes they disliked and a drastic shift in rules format, and that's just outlandish

 BaronIveagh wrote:
As far as the End times thing: apparently in the new (now confirmed) Space Wolves:Wulfen codex, Fenris is destroyed by the Dark Angels, and apparently the two biggest 'dark secrets' in 40k get let out of the bag (Wulfen and the Fallen).



So, I'll say it looks a little more likely.

Not just the Dark Angels but its been stated that Ultramarines have dropped a fleet in as well.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Iyou can't get people to invest the ridiculous amounts of time and money required to get into GW games and then just feth about with the stuff that drew many folk in in the first place, because the investment of that much emotional energy into something inspires a sense of connection and ownership

They can; they did it to WHF.

But to those people saying "yay, storyline advancement!" keep in mind that's what people were saying when the first End Times book hit. It only went downhill from there plot-wise, until it devolved into Skaven shooting down the moon followed shortly after with the entire world blowing up, rendering all of the other events moot.

Yeah, the only problem I have with advancing the storyline is the fear that it will go all AoS on us and invlode the scrapping of the entire setting.

Fenris being blown up is fine in my book, as was killing off Aun'va (or what his name was) the Tau space-pope.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

People still bought Superman merchandise when he died.

As for a friendly discussion (and not an argument), surely the recent Fantasy Battles to AOS saga disproves this theory? Some people shrugged their shoulders and kept playing, some people stepped back, some people signed on, and some people literally burned their armies.

For better or worse, we are all tied to to this hobby in different ways. Honestly don't see how the Superman example has any bearing on this either.

Yes, this is not near as extreme as AOS, but still represents a significant and massive departure from the 40k we know, and definetly sets the stage for equally drastic and controversial moves.

Personally, I like the story moving forward, but using what are arguably the two most popular marine armies, and perhaps even armies themselves is a huge jump that is going to cause a huge range of emotions - especially from those directly affected.

ajescorcia025 wrote:

Not just the Dark Angels but its been stated that Ultramarines have dropped a fleet in as well.

As well as the Ruinous Powers AND the Grey Knights are involved. So hang on to your hat.

Reese wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

People still bought Superman merchandise when he died.

As for a friendly discussion (and not an argument), surely the recent Fantasy Battles to AOS saga disproves this theory? Some people shrugged their shoulders and kept playing, some people stepped back, some people signed on, and some people literally burned their armies.

I think it had a lot more to do with AOS rules and, less importantly, subsequent world (a total reboot which, let's be honest, wasn't deep or interesting), than End of Times itself. Had EoT ended with the Empire crippled, unified Elves and Undead and O&g + OK, I doubt there would be a lot of people who would had quit. There's a way to advance the storyline, even significantly, without basically restarting at 0.

 mjl7atlas wrote:
Has it crossed anyone's mind that AoS might be paving the way for a new Warhammer fantasy game with a new rulebook, points costs, ranks, etc. etc.? I could see them using the 40k end times to do the same thing as all these formations are getting out of control and killing the game imo.

p.s. Where are my plastic SoB's at GW?

if by paving you mean burying it six feet under, yup it is!

Didn't Sad panda said that they would be a few relatively big advance in 40k, but nothing close to the End times????

Good good let them choke, fail, and die.

If anyone thinks this rumor has merit, they're a moron. GW wouldn't kill their golden goose.