Warhammer 40k moving to formation only, possible 40k End Times

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Baragash**

Most of GW's cost are central costs, so assigning 40% of their overall costs to it on the basis of relative range size is....not something I would ever present to anyone.

**Kanluwen**

BaronIveagh wrote:
Brother SRM wrote:
If anyone thinks this rumor has merit, they're a moron. GW wouldn't kill their golden goose.

BoLS confirms: Wulfen, Dark Angels, Fenris, BOOM.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/40k-space-wolves-wulfen-edition-confirmed.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/fenris-bombarded-new-dark-angels-art.html

Oh well, if BoLS says so...

Never mind that you can read the actual bit of fluff via Atia--and what you've been saying is not true.
Final bit in spoiler tags:

Spoiler:

**Malisteen**

Based on the narrative events of the space wolf campaign, I absolutely believe GW's gearing up for an 'end times' style event in 40k, plot wise. Whether it has the same sort of cataclysmic repercussions for the rules of 40k that it did for fantasy, I wouldn't put money on one way or the other.

**Accolade**

Kanluwen wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
Brother SRM wrote:
If anyone thinks this rumor has merit, they're a moron. GW wouldn't kill their golden goose.

BoLS confirms: Wulfen, Dark Angels, Fenris, BOOM.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/40k-space-wolves-wulfen-edition-confirmed.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/fenris-bombarded-new-dark-angels-art.html

Oh well, if BoLS says so...

Never mind that you can read the actual bit of fluff via Atia--and what you've been saying is not true.
Final bit in spoiler tags:

Spoiler:

Wait, I don't get it. The story ends with them bombing Fenris; are you just saying it doesn't specify Fenris actually blowing up? I can see how people might be confused about that given the art showing massive explosions on the planet, but I'm not sure either way.

**Chikout**

It says Fenris system not Fenris.

**Accolade**

Ahh, that may be my mistake then

**Crimson**

Now I'm afraid. I like the setting just the way it is. I don't want them to mess with it.

As for removing the points, that would pretty much kill the game and thus entire GW.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

Moopy wrote:
THIS IS AWESOME!

So sick to death of 40k becoming wrestling. BIG FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT but nothing ever changes.

Change is good, necessary even.

About time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

People still bought Superman merchandise when he died.

I completely agree. I had was a part owner of a comic book store when that happened. We sold a ton of Superman stuff.

You can't escape that some people will be pissed off. However, it reenergizes a whole lot more to be part of that change or give it another shot if they left. Every event brings the opportunity for new stories for people to invest their energy in their own fluff. The idea that you can't move forward because it limits older players doesn't hold weight.

I won't lie... this is amazing, and is forcing me to bring a new SW list to my next ITC tournament. I know it and the new Wulfen won't thrive in that meta, but guess what... "Remember Fenris". That's why as a fluff fan I am excited.

And as much as it sounds like something 16 year old me would say, but I am giddy at the thought of angry, now nomadic, Space Wolves, knowing they weren't traitors... until their battle-brothers gakked up. Its a more sensible reason for fluffy SM on SM matches in my head-canon. :-p

**Gamgee**

Crazyterran wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
The Tau are studying warp tech, the FSE is fighting what might be the largest hive fleet yet, there is a matter of Tau revenge for lighting the damocles gulf on fire, and the prophecy of Farsight being one of the only hopes for the galaxy and being helped by the Grey Knights and or Inquisition to try and resist chaos.

The Tau won't be crawling out of the Damocles sector for a good long while. The Ethereals have to figure out what to do now that the driving personality behind the Empire was assassinated, they lost a significant amount of troops to the Imperial retaliation, and after Prefectia their advance is stopped and the Imperium is dug in through the Gilded Worlds. The Tau Empire proper is going to be sitting on its hands or going after softer tsrgets than the Imperium for a while.

That, and setting the Gulf on fire would probably make anyone sensible pause and go back to the drawing board, especially as that was done after they got their first real glimpse on how big, spiteful, and powerful the Imperium is.

I actually could see a Tau (Farsight) and Ultramarines team up, as much as I hate to admit it. Marneus Calgar would rather have the comparably quiet Xenos neighbours of Farsight than a large Hive Fleet barreling down on Macragge again. It is the Ultramarines backyard, after all, and it's not like Imperial/Ultramarine cooperation with the Tau is unheard of if the situation is dire enough.

And if the largest tyranid hive fleet to date doesn't draw the attention of the Chapter that literally hates them the most, I'm going to be surprised.

Though they will probably take the opportunity to off a few captains, and either Calgar or Sicarius.

There's simply too much implications in the lore that the Tau are about to get a lot more powerful and a lot larger of an Empire and with how end times is going and sad panda even said the Tau books were the first of the new plot so leading up to some big events that will shake up the 40k story a lot. Well what would shake up the Tau more than having the Ethereals killed off, Farsight Ascend to rule them, and they begin to discover the ability to use warp drives.

That or the Tau will strike out in another diction and expand a lot. Also blow for blow the Tau came out of the campaign with 4 more planets than the 1 they lost. Also they can already get through the fire with the shields they are inventing so it took them all of a few weeks to start adapting. The Tau don't stop adapting ever. The only thing they underestimated was the Adeptus Mechanicus, and there is an Ad Mech Forgeworld in striking distance for a Tau campaign if they go back west.

Prefectia and Agrellan were the only two worth noting. The other two were steamrolled.

And funnily enough, there is an Admech and Red Scorpions versus Tau book coming out sooner or later from FW...

The Tau have been experimenting on warp technology for ages. They can't wrap their heads around it due to the sheer fact it requires something they do not possess, understand, or even really acknowledge - the ability to access and use the warp. They have auxiliaries that are capable of doing so, but the Tau have a overwhelming sense of self superiority, and I can imagine it will never even occur to them to plug in auxiliaries like Navigators. And that is even if the auxiliaries can be used in such a capacity.

And really, the planets the Tau took are inconsequential to the Imperium. They skipped over Voltoris after they got beaten there. The only reason why the Imperium cares about Prefectia was because of the death of Severax (which prompted the Imperial response) and the fact it meant they would have to bolster the worlds that are literally made out of gold, silver, and other precious metals.

And the Tau are adapting to the fire, but it was stated it would take a long time to put the new shields on enough of the fleet to matter. And on top of that, what waits directly on the other side of the Gulf is not the Imperium, but the Farsight Enclaves - the splinter group that is still on the Empire's list of things they need to kill off.

The implications at the end of the Montka book are that the Tau, while technically winning the battle, are reeling from the smack down they received. Agrellan, other than one city, is now useless. Many higher up commanders are dead, Shadowsun is crippled, Aun'va is gone, and their advance has ground to a halt. There are turbulent times ahead, as the Empire is shaken to the core at the retaliation the Imperium delivered, and they haven't even delivered the news that the Supreme Ethereal was assassinated.

There are going to be more supplements, but few of them will have to do with the Tau.

Besides, the Taus fluff has always been that they are moving towards a brighter future. It's part of the reason their fluff gets so much hate, is because they are shown to be on the rise while the rest of the galaxy declines.

And before you think that means that the Empire is going to grow into some huge force, remember - The Imperium has had more powerful foes and Xenos races rise and fall within the last ten thousand years. And, as stated In the 7th fluff book, the Imperiums borders have never been larger, its forces more powerful.

And everything is still going to gak.

The next campaign will probably be resolving the Fenris plot line for now, the next will involve whatever two books they are releasing next, or whatever xenos race they are releasing next plus space marines to push copies.

Who knows. dark Eldar and Salamanders, maybe. :p.

That is my point they have two easily conquered planets and also prefectia and agrellan. So provided they can survive it is a net gain for them and a loss for the Imperium. Your free to your opinion, but when we practically know or think there will be an end times like series of books I don't think we've seen the last of the Tau yet. Once they light every niebula around them on fire I'll truly beleive they've been squatted until rethought, but given their insane sales I doubt we'll see anything but more of them.

**wuestenfux**

Crimson wrote:
Now I'm afraid. I like the setting just the way it is. I don't want them to mess with it.

As for removing the points, that would pretty much kill the game and thus entire GW.

Maybe not.
40k cannot stay as it is. Army rules, model and unit profiles are scattered over codices, WD, and supplement books. Nobody actually has a survey about 40k as a whole. It's a total mess if you ask me. The situation was different in the editions three to five where one was able to get an overview of the whole game. Rant over.

**Alpharius**

Rayvon wrote:
Fenris is still in one piece in the end, no need to worry.

WHAT?!?

So the Title Belt didn't change hands?!?

It does look as if the story is moving forward though, so that's good.

I haven't seen anything yet that looks like points are going away, so that's also good.

**Samurai_Eduh**

wuestenfux wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Now I'm afraid. I like the setting just the way it is. I don't want them to mess with it.

As for removing the points, that would pretty much kill the game and thus entire GW.

Maybe not.
40k cannot stay as it is. Army rules, model and unit profiles are scattered over codices, WD, and supplement books. Nobody actually has a survey about 40k as a whole. It's a total mess if you ask me. The situation was different in the editions three to five where one was able to get an overview of the whole game. Rant over.

I agree, the game is a mess now. GW should do an End Times Lite. A terrible diaster for the Imperium and how they deal with it. Then, reboot the actual game system. I don't think it should go to AOS levels, but the game is bloated right now and needs to be slimmed down. I would be for four main factions like they have in AoS, with everyone in the various factions being battle brothers. Release faction books, again like AoS, with all of the units for that faction in it and update with new stuff via campaign books, with the new unit's base rules posted for free on the site.

**Ratius**

Yeah that fluff seems to indicate an attack on the Fenrisian system. No mention of Fenris or the Fang istelf being hit or destroyed (assuming we're not misisng any other paragrpahs).

Not sure about the changeling being able to influence the DAs. Arent they supposed to be the masters of discovering plots and rooting out heresy?

**Crimson**

wuestenfux wrote:

Maybe not.
40k cannot stay as it is. Army rules, model and unit profiles are scattered over codices, WD, and supplement books. Nobody actually has a survey about 40k as a whole. It's a total mess if you ask me. The situation was different in the editions three to five where one was able to get an overview of the whole game. Rant over.

And removing the points would improve the situation how?

I am not against updating or reorganising the rules, that's completely different matter.

**wuestenfux**

Crimson wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:

Maybe not.
40k cannot stay as it is. Army rules, model and unit profiles are scattered over codices, WD, and supplement books. Nobody actually has a survey about 40k as a whole. It's a total mess if you ask me. The situation was different in the editions three to five where one was able to get an overview of the whole game. Rant over.

And removing the points would improve the situation how?

I am not against updating or reorganising the rules, that's completely different matter.

The game could live without a point system. They already did it in AoS.
They could propose some mild balancing rules as for AoS. For GW this might be totally sufficient.

**Requizen**

Oh look, more unfounded AoS-40k rumors. Never ceases to generate pages and pages of arguments.

**Crimson**

wuestenfux wrote:

The game could live without a point system. They already did it in AoS.
They could propose some mild balancing rules as for AoS. For GW this might be totally sufficient.

AoS is deader than Nagash's scrotum. Only reason it doesn't matter is because FB was already a rotting corpse on life support.

**doktor_g**

wuestenfux wrote:
Nobody actually has a survey about 40k as a whole. It's a total mess if you ask me. The situation was different in the editions three to five where one was able to get an overview of the whole game. Rant over.

Frontline has. 1d4chan is pretty good source, although tongue in cheek.

**SickSix**

C'mon people, we are still doubting GW's ability and willingness to shoot themselves in the foot?

I called the 'Sigmar'ing of 40k' as soon as AoS hit.

GW wants to sell models to collectors and pre-teen/teen boys. They also hate writing rules (probably because they are terrible at it and catch constant hell from community ).

So the AoS system is perfect for them. And AoS was a test. If they feel it was a succcess (and we now their vision can be warped) they will try to do something with 40k.

Facts:
1. GW wants to sell models
2. They hate writing rules
3. They could care less about 'veteran players' and the vocal community
4. 40K is nearing critical mass. It is so complicated right now gamers can barley understand it or keep up with the constant changes. (3 books for one army?)

**Bull0**

There's all kinds of things GW could do, I just don't see any evidence that AOSing 40k is one of the things they are going to do in the foreseeable, and am not generally interested in pessimistic speculation.

**gorgon**

Requizen wrote:
Oh look, more unfounded AoS-40k rumors. Never ceases to generate pages and pages of arguments.

Yeah, I'd say that it's gold for the clickbait sites, but platinum is probably a better analogy.

**horuslupercal1988**

I personaly think it would be cool, in some sort that all primarchs came back and you can use them but I would hate if the destroy al the fluff and setting like whf,

**Crimson**

horuslupercal1988 wrote:
I personaly think it would be cool, in some sort that all primarchs came back and you can use them but I would hate if the destroy al the fluff and setting like whf,

There already is a full game where you can use Primarchs, it's called Horus Heresy, is that not enough? And bringing back the Primarchs would be destroying the setting.

**Requizen**

horuslupercal1988 wrote:
I personaly think it would be cool, in some sort that all primarchs came back and you can use them but I would hate if the destroy al the fluff and setting like whf,

Yeah, I'd definitely be happy with an End Times style event. Maybe not destroying the universe, but at least moving the clock to a minute to midnight. With the 13th legion returning, we should technically see Russ soon as well. The new DA book said that The Lion was stirring within the Rock, as well, which would just be the coolest thing to happen for the next part of this supplement.

**kestral**

I'd say they'd never AOS 40K, except that I would have said they would never AOS Fantasy a year ago.

**daemonish**

So as people have already said, if this was a couple of years ago I would have dismissed it immediately, but with AOS killing fantasy I am nervous that they will do the same with 40k. My real horror comes with the possibility that they could incorporate 40k into the AOS universe just to sell more models. Sure move the fluff on, sure try balancing the rules by beta testing in the community, even don't do that and update the rules but making it a game without points and just another pay to win scenario is just a interest killer for me.

**Sword Of Caliban**

GW didn't kill fantasy they IMPROVED it. AOS is epic and every game I have had so far has been fun contrary to what most 40k players believe. I haven't played 40k since picking up AOS and I can't see myself playing it for a while yet, but I forsee a time when 40k gets the same treatment as fantasy did, so you guys better get used to it.

**Accolade**

Or people could just quit/play an old edition

Time will tell!

**Chairman Aeon**

Like 40K fluff as it is now? That's nice because it wasn't always this way. That's why us old timers still talk about Squats, Zoats and Slann. It's why I still have pre-Aspect warrior Eldar.

I personally would like them to blow the damn thing up and start over with a more coherent setting and more modern rules. Until AoS I thought GW was incapable the either. Now I just don't know if they have the courage to do so.

There is nothing wrong with the AoS style rules other than it isn't what you know (or love). Again, the rules haven't always been what you know them as. (Not that they were better either.) Most importantly you'd still be able to use your expensive models to game with... what ever system you chose.

I'll believe it when I see it, but if it does happen I might get back into 40K.

Iain.

**455_PWR**

I almost hope it does go to an aos type game. Then there will be no more changes, no op units with power creep, etc. There is a ton of gw product out there, so 40k would continue with the models having a dual purpose.

Oh and free rules? Thank you! No more $50 books every month... not to mention having to replace them ever year or so (dark angels, Imperial knights, space wolf additions, tau additions, etc...)

As for the dark angels, I have played them since the end of 2nd edition. They have always been the good, but bad army. It would be cool to see good armies become 'rogue', like the alpha legion. Blood angels and wolves because of the flaws, dark angels because of their hidden war, etc. I will always love the dark angels, no matter which direction they take. I could care less if they become chaos born ax long as I have deathwing, ravenwing, and greening

I wish they would make some units for the da that would rival the power of grimnar, wolven, thunderwolf cavalry, mepheston, or lysander. We still have the weakest characters...