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Well, the web store has been rearranged, saying goodbye to the tomb kings and sorting Vamp Counts into their GAoD subfactions.

In the process, the rules links from the web store now show the updated pages from GAoD, instead of linking to the old compendium, and while most everything is the same, there are still a handful of changes here and there, so I'm going to start cataloging them here.

All entries with noteworthy changes are bolded.

Deathlords:
Soulblight:
Deathmages:

Boss factions out of the way, and to recap the notable changes so far:

- Vamp Lords can carry a blood chalice
- Vargheists cannot be summoned
- Mannfred's mortarch ability keys of casting a spell
- Vlad, Konrad, Izzy, Count Mannfred, Kemmler, and Abyssal Terror all missing (though the terror wasn't in the store to begin with, so jury's still out until we do the final count at the end, and get all 35 scrolls without it).

I'm getting sleepy, so I'll leave the rest for tomorrow, unless someone else wants to jump in.

Skeleton Warriors lost the option for Tomb Shields.

Black Knights lost 'Spectral Steeds'.

I'm sad that Vampire on Abyssal Terror is gone simply because that was what I was planning to use my Neferata as in more toned down games.

It's still a no brainier for me to pick up this book at the price it's selling for. I am sad to see the TK go, even if I am only a VC collector.

What about the Varghulf?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it in the flesh-eaters section.

Alright, looking at a few more scrolls:

DeadwalkersDeathrattle (lots of changes here)Flesh-Eater CourtsNighthaunt (no changes)Beasts of the GraveTotal List of Units Included

So, a cumulative list of changes:

- Vamp Lords can carry a blood chalice, as already mentioned by Opp
- Vargheists cannot be summoned
- Mannfred's mortarch ability keys of casting a spell
- Corpse Carts gain additional weapon options
- Krell is now a generic character with one less attack, one worse save, no champion of the dead
- The current wight king now has Krell's command ability as well
- Skeleton Warriors lose the tomb shield option
- Black Knights lose the spectral steed rule
- Varghulfs gain the mordant and hero keywords, lose the vampire keyword, and are single models instead of units

- Vlad, Isabella, Konrad, 'count' Manfred, and Kemmler, and Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror are not included, though they're still in the App. Notably, the VC compendium formations are no longer in the app.

EDIT: updated with info from app.

@malisteen, you said you might just use old rules for a model... Is that viable? Surely the latest rules are canon, and the old rules are now defunct?

In local GW today to pre order the new Grand Alliance Death book and sad to see the TK go. My friend almost cried when they told him that they were being discontinued. He then went and bought Nagash to cheer himself up again...
Rules changes look good overall, shame that they have 'axed' the characters like konrad etc. and we don't have any new releases, but at least we get a nice shiny book, and they haven't done anything to the summoning or synergies, which was my main concern.

 monders wrote:
@malisteen, you said you might just use old rules for a model... Is that viable? Surely the latest rules are canon, and the old rules are now defunct?

Surely it will depend on whom you are fighting. The spirit of AoS supposedly is that people can modify it any way they like. The probable reality is that 90% of players will use the latest official GW war scrolls.

What does defunct even mean? For scrolls that have been changed or updated, sure. I wouldn't try to summon vargheists, or walk black knights through walls. But for TK stuff, the TK compendium still contains latest official warscrolls for those units, and that's not going to change after GAoD comes out.

Find one rule anywhere which states Necropolis Knights, or Skeleton Archers, or the Helcannon for that matter, is no longer a legal choice. You can't find one, and even if you could, AoS isn't the kind of strict, competitive rules setting where "official" has any special meaning or relevance, anyway.


But if you want a source for what's official, then try GW's official Age of Sigmar App. When the Seraphon battletome came out without many of the old lizardmen characters, the battle scrolls for the stuff that got updated were updated in the app, but the scrolls for characters that weren't included didn't change and weren't removed. Same with the grand alliance of chaos book - updated scrolls were changed, but scrolls that weren't included, like the helcannon, are still right there where they were.


Items removed form the store haven't been removed from the rule set.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


Surely it will depend on whom you are fighting. The spirit of AoS supposedly is that people can modify it any way they like. The probable reality is that 90% of players will use the latest official GW war scrolls.

This. I am interested to see what the Midwest does- they seem to have a long history here of preserving overlooked armies (Dogs of War, Chaos Dwarfs for example) for use in tournaments. As far as I'm concerned, if someone has the models and we can find a war scroll for them, let's let 'em fly. It obviously gets a bit more complicated if you are a) using a comp system and b) that same comp system no longer assigns points to the unit in question.

I missed some changes to generic Krell: he loses the 'champion of the dead' ability and has a 4+ save instead of 3+. All the more reason for me to stick with regular Krell.

I also updated with info from the app, which now also has the updated scrolls (you have to long press to delete the old scroll before downloading the new one).

It confirms that Terrorgheist (unridden), Zombie Dragon (unridden) and Abhorrant Ghoul King (on foot) are the three remaining scrolls. Other than names, no changes to any of them.

Which leaves Vampire on Abyssal Terror out of the Grand Alliance of Death book.

Notably, however, it, and the other special characters that didn't make the cut, as well as the entire tomb king line, are all still in the App. Same with the lizardmen and chaos characters and units that weren't in their new books. So again, stuff that didn't get printed in the physical books might not be sold anymore, and might not appear in the fluff going forward, but the rules aren't going anywhere if you already have the models to use them with.

What notably isn't in the app anymore is the vamp count compendium formations, the deathrattle horde and charnel pit carrion. I don't know what to make of that.

 monders wrote:
@malisteen, you said you might just use old rules for a model... Is that viable? Surely the latest rules are canon, and the old rules are now defunct?

Man these codices/warscroll changes are just way too fast.

The latest rule for "Vlad Von Carstein" is still the vamp compendium version. That's the version listed in the app. Just like the latest rule for the Helcannon is from the Chaos Warrior compendium, and, again, that's the version in the app.

The compendiums don't seem to be disappearing from the website, either. Lizardmen and all the chaos ones don't appear in the store section anymore, but they still show up under 'AoS rules'.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if GW just forgot that those compendiums were there.

The stuff is still in the App, going all the way back to the dropped Lizardmen characters. Some of the compendium formations have been removed from the app, but none of the units have.

Apparently the only formation in the book is the same units as the old deathrattle horde, but with slightly different benefits - move in the command phase instead of minimum run, bring back an extra slain model to each unit in the command phase instead of re-rolling ones on saves.

All in all, underwhelming - not in that it's a bad formation, but in that it's just disappointing to lose two existing formations and only get a doppleganger of one of the lost formations back.

I'm still shocked that there's only one formation in the book.

But nothing stops you from playing the formation in the app.

 Haechi wrote:
But nothing stops you from playing the formation in the app.

Until you clear the cache.
It's a known 'bug' - once you've downloaded it, it doesn't auto update.
Easy visual check - if it's a white background, it's the original compendium warscroll. If it's a coloured background, it's an updated / 'current official' warscroll.

The death rattle horde isn't on the app at all at the moment, which means the compendium one has gone but the new one isn't on there yet.
(Or could just be my app)

I re downloaded Mannfred's scroll and it is a mess, totally unreadable. First trouble I have had with the app tbf but c'mon GW don't you know I am an entitled customer and want my free stuff perfect dammit!

Azyr will never remove the old scrolls they will always be playable. I find it hard to grasp that people would legitimately say that you can no longer use a model because GW decided to remove the war scroll. If you have the warscroll, feel free to use it.

Yeah, but Azyr comp is so unfriendly to undead to begin with that I wouldn't play a Death army at an azyr event anyway (20 grave guard with command is really equivalent to 40 chaos warriors? Really?). Also azyr uses a bucketload of extra rules, only about half of which are necessary. It's kind of the most awkward of all the comps, especially for undead players, so... yeah.

RoperPG wrote:


The death rattle horde isn't on the app at all at the moment, which means the compendium one has gone but the new one isn't on there yet.
(Or could just be my app)

I still have the deathrattle horde formation after clearing the cache. Under Vampire Counts.

Deathrattle horde and Charnel ghoul formations are both totally absent from the app for me.

Additionally, for me both the 'crypt ghouls' and the 'crypt horrors' load the horrors' warscroll. There is no way to access the ghoul warscroll from the app for me, this despite multiple cache clears and deletions & redownloads of the scrolls in question.

 Malisteen wrote:
Yeah, but Azyr comp is so unfriendly to undead to begin with that I wouldn't play a Death army at an azyr event anyway (20 grave guard with command is really equivalent to 40 chaos warriors? Really?). Also azyr uses a bucketload of extra rules, only about half of which are necessary. It's kind of the most awkward of all the comps, especially for undead players, so... yeah.

20 GG do not equal 40 CW...20GG are pretty much half the cost of 40 CW.

Now if you want to say 20 GG have half the wounds as 20 CW yet equal points,then you have a point..but the GG can bring back d3 models every turn ,so theres that.

Minijack wrote:

 Malisteen wrote:
Yeah, but Azyr comp is so unfriendly to undead to begin with that I wouldn't play a Death army at an azyr event anyway (20 grave guard with command is really equivalent to 40 chaos warriors? Really?). Also azyr uses a bucketload of extra rules, only about half of which are necessary. It's kind of the most awkward of all the comps, especially for undead players, so... yeah.

20 GG do not equal 40 CW...20GG are pretty much half the cost of 40 CW.

Now if you want to say 20 GG have half the wounds as 20 CW yet equal points,then you have a point..but the GG can bring back d3 models every turn ,so theres that.

This has not always been the case in Azyr comp.

The last version of Azyr I saw was the 2/9 version here:

http://www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/AzyrComp.pdf

Which prices grave guard at three points per five, plus one point per five if they have their banner, while chaos warriors were two points per five with shields and no extra price for command. So yes, 20 grave guard with command, was priced as equal to 40 chaos warriors, as recently as this month.

Undead unlike anyone else get charged extra for our banners, and skeletons, unlike most other units with bonuses for extra models, get charged extra to be fielded in large units, and these things together are a pretty heavy and arbitrary punishment for trying to play tomb kings or vamp counts in the system.

Azyr guy says extensive testing showed undead winning everything and impossible to price because of all the scaling benefits.

I talked him, for awhile at least, into scaling price for undead units based on the number taken, to account for their bonuses.

Other factions also have scaling bonuses. Even with three attacks apiece, skeletons aren't worth even close to 4 per ten, let alone five per ten with a banner. Grave guard aren't worth 3 per 10, either.

AZYR in it's entirety is way, way too fiddly. To many fiddly changes to the core game rules, and their points costs are way, way too blunt for the kind of fiddly price differentials for every. little. option. That they try to put in. When units are only two or three points per five or ten model chunk to begin with, that isn't fine grained enough to start trying to put different points costs on different weapon options, and undead are hit by that hard. with the banner thing.

I would suggest that maybe their undead player was just better than everyone else. Or maybe they were handling summoning wrong (which they have done and continue to do).


But in general, no, I do not recommend playing Azyr at all, and I ESPECIALLY don't recommend trying to play undead at Azyr events. Clash is ok. SCGT's alright (apart from banning discontinued models). But Azyr is fiddly and hasslesome and their points system is just all over the place.

 Malisteen wrote:
The last version of Azyr I saw was the 2/9 version here:

http://www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/AzyrComp.pdf

Which prices grave guard at three points per five, plus one point per five if they have their banner, while chaos warriors were two points per five with shields and no extra price for command. So yes, 20 grave guard with command, was priced as equal to 40 chaos warriors, as recently as this month.

Undead unlike anyone else get charged extra for our banners, and skeletons, unlike most other units with bonuses for extra models, get charged extra to be fielded in large units, and these things together are a pretty heavy and arbitrary punishment for trying to play tomb kings or vamp counts in the system.

OK,,perhaps I'm counting them wrong,,but lets go over what I came up with as originally I forgot to add the 4pts for the banner part-

20 GG cost 3 for the first 5 then 1 point per each 1 model added to the warscroll. This is because the number in parenthesis is the amount of models you can add to the warscroll for each point spent.So certainly in this case if we are talking a warscroll of 20 GG with banner then the total cost would be 22 points.
Now if you want to just have 4 units of 5 in your army then the total cost would be 16 as each warscroll would be base cost 3 +1 for the banner.

Now for the CW-With shields(the non great weapon line) they are 2 per 5 with every 2 models added costing one point.So with a huge warscroll of 40 you would be looking at base cost 2 pts for the first 5 then another 17 pts for the added 35(rounded down here) for a total of 19 pts...so yes less expensive but not nearly half the cost..Take these guys in 8 scrolls of 5 and you have 16 pts..which is equal to the GG.

Now along with the GG being able to bring back models ,they can also be summoned to the field by any death wizard.

Am I wrong here?,if so please show me.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be honest though,I don't have any CW to field.But I have played my Undead several times and both GG and just base Skeletons or any unit with 10+ models that can bring back models each turn is a pain to deal with.They are the best tarpits in the game locking down even monsters for multiple turns.

Matching up 40 CW vs 20 GG seems to me that it would end up the same,,sure the CW would probably eventually beat them down but likely several turns later.Unless by some miracle the CW player was able to get all of their models into striking range in one round.

The number in perenthesis is the amount of models you can add with a spare point, it's for spare points left over at the end, its not for filling out units to begin with, you buy chunks at the base price for that.

In this case 3 for 5 grave guard, plus one extra per five for the banner (the banner is one point per choice total, grave guard come in fives) ****EDIT: banner is per 10 infantry, not per choice, so 2 extra points instead of four****, so 16 points for a block of 20 with command. Chaos warriors with shields are two points per five, so 16 points gets you 8x5 = 40 chaos warriors.

***EDIT: 14 points for 20 with command, so that's 35 chaos warriors, not 40.***

That said, even still, pretending 35 chaos warriors, each with two wounds, superior saves (including reroll ones for their big unit bonus, which unlike skeletons they don't pay extra for), and 5++ against mortals, is equivalent exchange for 20 grave guard is ridiculous.

I mean, heck, how many skeletons could we get for that? 34: 3*3 (base cost per 10 when the total unit is over 20, under 40) +3 (for the banner for a unit of 30) + 2 (4 extra skittles from the leftover points). And that's assuming the banner cost doesn't round up, which isn't clear from what I've read.

So Azyr would have me believe that even plain old skellies are somehow worth more than chaos warriors?

Do you see what I'm getting at, here?


Don't play Azyr to begin with, but whatever you do don't play undead in Azyr.