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Hey all,

Yes, another "help me get started with 30k" post

Due to getting a better job (at the cost of nights only) I can afford to splash out on the Betrayal @ Calth set. I've a few questions re: The Heresy-

-Would 2 sets of B@C be enough marines and is a foot-slogging list viable? I kind of want to go infantry heavy supported with dreads, support weapons and 1-2 tanks max
> 6 MLs, 6 HBs and so forth should be a good base for dev squads and so on I think

-Which books do I need? As in are there specific ones I need to have or just the one relating to my chosen legion?

-On that note...er...I might need a bit of help choosing a legion, haha. I want to go with a coloured metallic scheme but unsure as to which legion (let alone whose side I want to be on)

-Most importantly: Does anyone know where one can play 30k in Australia, especially QLD

I know it's a lot of questions but I'm relatively keen on this despite 'not feeling it' with the other GW offerings.

Cheers

-With 2 B@C sets you'll have 60 marines, 2 Contemptor dreads, 10 Cataphractii Terminators and about 4 HQ's

-I'm not quite sure what books you'll need for 30K

-Read into the fluff of legions you think you might be interested in. Every legion is viable with any list so.

Two boxes can give you 2500-3000pts, so if it's infantry heavy you want you'll likely not need any more.

You need the generic Great Crusade Army List, the original (now outdated and incomplete) is in Betrayal, the complete and (currently, there are rumours of that being updated in a few months) up to date list is in the Crusade Army List book. The Legion specific sections of the various other books merely tell you how to modify this list, rather than reprinting the entire thing.

Since one box can easily be made into 1500 points, 2 should mo more than enough.

the points area of your box depends on how you build up your squads. If you wanna foot slog it, you probably wont have to many vet. squads as they die like flies since their is only 10 of them. a decent base for a foot slogging list that can be easily expanded is something along the lines of:

Praetor w/ Paragon Blade, Artificer, iron halo Digital Weapons, combi-weapon (based off of the Chaplain, with super easy conversions with bits spare in the boxes)
Centurion (any kind) w/ Cataphractii, combi-weapon, chainfist
Centurion (any kind) w/ plasma pistol, power weapon, artificer, refractor field

20-man tactical squad (Extra CCW, Legion Vexilia) Srgt. w/ artificer & power weapon
20-man tactical squad (Extra CCW, Legion Vexilia) Srgt. w/ artificer & power weapon
5-man tactical support squad w/ Flamers. Srgt w/ artificer
5-man tactical support squad w/ Plasma (or melta). Srgt. w/ Artificer

10-man Terminator squad w/ P. Fists, 2 chain fists, 2 heavy flamers. Srgt. w/ grenade harness & Power weapon (or fist)
2 contemptor Dreadnoughts w/ kheres, DCCW, and Havok Launchers (if you're fine with minor proxy)

5-man Seeker squad w/ Combi-plas/melta. Srgt. W/ Artificer

5-man Heavy Support Squad w/ Missile Launchers. Srt. w/ Artificer & Augury Scanner (if he can take one without dropping his ML, I cannot remember ATM)

This list uses every model in the boxes (barring 1 Cataphractii HQ), needs nothing other then what comes in the 2 boxes, and should effectively deal with most everything barring heavy tanks, but that would be handled better by future vehicles/expansions. If you are foot slogging it, vet. tacs. are over rated and are mainly chosen (it seems) because they match 40k tactical squads, or people are still in the habbit of taking minimum troops in favor of more 'Big Spoopy Units'.


As for legion choice: look into the fluff. whatever colors/fluff hit you the most, go with them. If you are more worried about painting, Iron warriors hit that metalic itch, though they aren't colored metal. I think this choice really depends on if you wanna go loyalist or traitor.

As for books: the 2 red books (army + legion) will be your best bets. You can still buy the army list book, however it's due to be updated shortly, as well as the fact that the legion book should be on pre-order soon enough since it also just got updated.

Thanks for the replies so far everyone

Legions I'm deciding on are:
Emperor's Children, as metallic purple looks kinda neat, plus y'know, noise weaponry.
BA (my 40k army)
1000 sons as metallic red is sweet
Death guard, maybe? I did enjoy the Flight of the Eisenstein. Open to suggestions though.

I'm going to start with one box, then get a second so I can build some devastator squads with the MLs and HBs within. As for the doubling up of HQ's, I was to kitbash/convert one or two

How recent is the crusade red book?

The Current Incarnation of the red book is only missing a couple of general units, such as the Leviathan, deredo and new Cortus contemptor Dreadnought, Xyphon, and and some other stuff (and never had the legion specific ones) there will be a new legion specific book due out soon. It's still a very valid buy.

I've got a quick question...

Regarding colors, if I do TS, would I have to paint them red and gold? Or can I do any color and say that they are TS?

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I've got a quick question...

Regarding colors, if I do TS, would I have to paint them red and gold? Or can I do any color and say that they are TS?

Well, I mean, you can obviously paint them any which way you like. They're your models. Thousand Sons appear to mainly some kind of metallic red with gold and white detailing, though which exact shades and proportions are up to you. If you want to paint one squad mainly red and another mainly gold then that's fine. It may not be exactly the official version but the whole crusade and heresy period was big enough that most anything could have happened at some point. If you want to paint them all in camo then that's fine, too. You can copy what you see in the books and on the FW site or you can just let yourself be inspired by the general idea of their colour scheme. Maybe you prefer some kind of very earthen, matte red over metallic ruby red. Maybe you want to do the really old-school white armour with purple trim and use simply an M for their emblem.

Really the only true rule is that you aren't trying to mislead people. Anything else is just a matter of telling your opponent you're using the TS list and point out any conversions that might not be obvious.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I've got a quick question...

Regarding colors, if I do TS, would I have to paint them red and gold? Or can I do any color and say that they are TS?

well, there were some variations throughout the legions, how far were you lookin' to deviate?

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I've got a quick question...

Regarding colors, if I do TS, would I have to paint them red and gold? Or can I do any color and say that they are TS?

well, there were some variations throughout the legions, how far were you lookin' to deviate?

I haven't decided a color scheme yet. I'm thinking of doing something between IW and TS. That way I'll magnetize the one shoulder pad for easy conversion through the 2 legions

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I've got a quick question...

Regarding colors, if I do TS, would I have to paint them red and gold? Or can I do any color and say that they are TS?

well, there were some variations throughout the legions, how far were you lookin' to deviate?

I haven't decided a color scheme yet. I'm thinking of doing something between IW and TS. That way I'll magnetize the one shoulder pad for easy conversion through the 2 legions

OH! you mentioned in the other thread that you wanted to go blackshields yeah? well one way to do that is go with all black, and then minor red (for TS) or silver (for IW) markings to point out the original legions.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
The Current Incarnation of the red book is only missing a couple of general units, such as the Leviathan, deredo and new Cortus contemptor Dreadnought, Xyphon, and and some other stuff (and never had the legion specific ones) there will be a new legion specific book due out soon. It's still a very valid buy.

Ok, so if I want to go Thousand Sons (reading through A Thousand Sons at the moment) I'll have to wait until the big black-leather book 7 to come out but can use the crusades army list in the mean time?

There's a box of Calth and a pot of Tamiya enamel clear red sitting on my desk so I think I may actually be a heretic

Brennonjw wrote:OH! you mentioned in the other thread that you wanted to go blackshields yeah? well one way to do that is go with all black, and then minor red (for TS) or silver (for IW) markings to point out the original legions.

Yeah, I was. I like how it allows me to have multiple Legions, both Traitor and Loyal. I like that idea, have a base color and then have the other colors be for the parent legion.

SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
The Current Incarnation of the red book is only missing a couple of general units, such as the Leviathan, deredo and new Cortus contemptor Dreadnought, Xyphon, and and some other stuff (and never had the legion specific ones) there will be a new legion specific book due out soon. It's still a very valid buy.

Ok, so if I want to go Thousand Sons (reading through A Thousand Sons at the moment) I'll have to wait until the big black-leather book 7 to come out but can use the crusades army list in the mean time?

There's a box of Calth and a pot of Tamiya enamel clear red sitting on my desk so I think I may actually be a heretic

Would you say that's... Heresy?

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
The Current Incarnation of the red book is only missing a couple of general units, such as the Leviathan, deredo and new Cortus contemptor Dreadnought, Xyphon, and and some other stuff (and never had the legion specific ones) there will be a new legion specific book due out soon. It's still a very valid buy.

Ok, so if I want to go Thousand Sons (reading through A Thousand Sons at the moment) I'll have to wait until the big black-leather book 7 to come out but can use the crusades army list in the mean time?

There's a box of Calth and a pot of Tamiya enamel clear red sitting on my desk so I think I may actually be a heretic

you'll need to wait untill book 7, yes. We all do :(

Beyond that, don't call Thousand Sons heretics

Ok, yeah to be fair I'm actually enjoying A Thousand Sons, the Legion is far more interesting than I first thought. Statement about heresy redacted

Do we know what's in the pipeline for 1k Sons?

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, yeah to be fair I'm actually enjoying A Thousand Sons, the Legion is far more interesting than I first thought. Statement about heresy redacted

Do we know what's in the pipeline for 1k Sons?

NO guarentees but:

they are book 7 (confirmed)

probably will have at LEAST scarab occult terminators
we have confirmed upgrade kits for the special power armor dudes

They might also be getting the Hidden Ones, which are scout auxillias

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
They might also be getting the Hidden Ones, which are scout auxillias

I doubt it. Most legions get about 2 special units, some get 3, and hidden ones were less field support, and more 'deep cover agents' to the point where psycick blocks were put into place so that even the hidden ones didn't know they were hidden ones. All I'm 100% sure on (hopefully ) Is that Custodes get released at the same time, so I can make a shiny golden man army.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
They might also be getting the Hidden Ones, which are scout auxillias

I doubt it. Most legions get about 2 special units, some get 3, and hidden ones were less field support, and more 'deep cover agents' to the point where psycick blocks were put into place so that even the hidden ones didn't know they were hidden ones. All I'm 100% sure on (hopefully ) Is that Custodes get released at the same time, so I can make a shiny golden man army.

Yeah, true, do you think the Scarab Occult will have Brotherhood of Psykers style Mastery Level? And I'm salivating over the Contemptor dread

And what do you mean by special power armor dudes?

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
They might also be getting the Hidden Ones, which are scout auxillias

I doubt it. Most legions get about 2 special units, some get 3, and hidden ones were less field support, and more 'deep cover agents' to the point where psycick blocks were put into place so that even the hidden ones didn't know they were hidden ones. All I'm 100% sure on (hopefully ) Is that Custodes get released at the same time, so I can make a shiny golden man army.

Yeah, true, do you think the Scarab Occult will have Brotherhood of Psykers style Mastery Level? And I'm salivating over the Contemptor dread

And what do you mean by special power armor dudes?

Hopefully, I'm also hoping that one of their legion special rules is that they can go to ML 3, or something along those lines.

Achaen patter upgrade kits are what I was talking about. they are probably going the UM route with them.

ML 3 would be amazing...

Where can I find a picture of the upgrade kit?


And to stay on topic. SpinCycle, how are you liking thousand sons?

Magnus has just been saved by the corrupted webway tentacle monster so things are starting to get somewhere. Out of all the heresy novels I've read thus far,I'm enjoying this one the most. Magnus does seem to have that "I'm so much smarter than you, I know what I'm doing" attitude which is kinda hilarious.

Will 1k Sons gain fancy sorcerer conversion kits? I'd like to eventually have a few with their staffs/robes. Scarab occult termies would be pretty ace

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Magnus has just been saved by the corrupted webway tentacle monster so things are starting to get somewhere. Out of all the heresy novels I've read thus far,I'm enjoying this one the most. Magnus does seem to have that "I'm so much smarter than you, I know what I'm doing" attitude which is kinda hilarious.

Will 1k Sons gain fancy sorcerer conversion kits? I'd like to eventually have a few with their staffs/robes. Scarab occult termies would be pretty ace

I've been wondering that as well... I plan on using bits from several online retailers and what not

What I did with 2 Calth boxes, I went Iron Warriors.
I got some extra cyclones and this gave me

GOLG (IW special character)

10 Tyrant Siege Terminators

2x 20 tacticals

6 Iron Havocs with missle launchers

6 men special weapons with plasma.

Than I bought
2x apotechary,
1x scorpius,
2x basilisk
2x Rapier Laser Destroyers.
1x Vindicator

Which together gives a very solid 2500 point list using Hammer of Olympia, has a nice fluffy feel to it and it infantry heavy.

If you want coloured metallic armour then Word Bearers do this really well. Ignore the paint scheme GW use for the Betrayal at Calth set and instead look at some of the Word Bearer models on the Forge World web site.

Silver (rub'n'buff drybrushed over a black undercoat, but metallic silver airbrushed on also works and is much easier for bigger models). Then several thin layers of Tamiya Clear Red and a final layer of Carroburg Crimson. Forge World recommend an initial layer of Carroburg Crimson before you start with the Clear Red, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

Comes out darker and more crimson than the Thousand Sons colour scheme.

You also have the advantage of not having to wait to the end of the year for their rules. And some of the Word Bearers specific models are fantastic once you start looking beyond your initial Betrayal at Calth sets.

Otherwise Alpha Legion can look great, but are more fiddly since you need two different (green & blue) clear colours and you really can't get away with not using an air brush. Whereas with Word Bearers (and I guess Thousand Sons), you only need an airbrush for vehicles.

And as if on queue, photos of my Word Bearers contemptor in metallic-style crimson appear on natfka's blog: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/whats-on-your-table-word-bearers_17.html

The extra layers of Carroburg Crimson (plus a little oil washing in the recesses) give it a much more grungy look than the metallic red Thousand Sons comtemptor that also appeared on the same site a few weeks ago,

Yeah, AL is an absolute PITA to get right as my pile of old test models will attest to.

Those are sweet looking Word Bearers and and this is from someone who hates red legions. They look like their armor is anodized.

Hey all,

after experimenting around with metallic colour schemes (on some 2nd edition space marine bitz no less), I mixed some kabalite green with come VMC blue blue pale and gained a shade that I can only call 'Heresea-green'. Sons of Horus it is then I suppose Why commit a little heresy when you can commit a lot of heresy