Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was wondering what the current thinking is on the best way to varnish. This question is for metal models in particular, as I've had very bad experiences with them getting chipped even though I am very careful with them.

Is the best advice still to gloss varnish, then matt varnish over the top? I remember hearing in the past that this leads to detail being obscured. Is there any way around that?

What are the best products out there right now? I've never had the frosting effect, but how do I make certain I avoid it on some important models?

Thanks in advance...

I use Krylon Crystal Clear UV protection spray. It's never gone on too thick for me as long as I make several quick passes, and it's been amazing at providing fade protection against sunlight. Just make sure if you use it attach any clear plastic pieces last or they will fog up.

So long as you clean models properly before painting, a single good coat of decent satin varnish through an airbrush should be fine for most purposes. It's all I use.

I do suggest airbrushes for priming and varnishing - it's a heck of a lot more cost-efficient, as you don't use up or waste paint you're not spraying - no nozzle blockages ruining a bottle of paint etc and far less frosting effect (the worst I get is the occasional tiny white speck of matting agent, which is easily covered later).

I use both Daler Rowney's soluble Gloss and matt varnish and they both work very well. The matt takes a lot of stirring before use but looks good when dry.

I use pledge floor wax for the main varnish and then Windsor and Newton UV Matt varnish to protect from fading and take the shine off, both through an airbrush.

Pledge floor wax through an airbrush?! Wow okay!

So, unfortunately, a big part of the advice is to get an airbrush. Not remotely practical where I am living now, but when we move soon, it is already high on my list of purchases, so this just moves it further up.

I like to stick the heating on in the room for an hour before varnishing, helps stop clouding as it dries.

I use Vallejo Matt Varnish spray from Amazon. If you brush on some gloss from a Vallejo dropper bottle from Boyes, they protect well.

I play exclusively metal IG (up to 150 figures), and I'm yet to chip a figure that I primed using Vallejo primer and finished with those varnishes.

Primer is a big part of chip protection too.

Yeah, I always prime.

I've also changed my painting techniques to avoid one problem of mine, which is rubbing off paint as I go. These days I am attaching stuff to old, empty paint pots and hold them insead.

The Krylon stuff is crazy expensive. I might try he Vallejo option above - I can just get it from Dark Sphere, I expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JamesY wrote:
I like to stick the heating on in the room for an hour before varnishing, helps stop clouding as it dries.

I always spray outside. Is it the temperature of the can that matters, or the temperature of the air you spray in? Or the temperature of the model?

Temperature of the environment. Cold and moisture tend to go together, which creates clouding on the model. As far as the can goes, unless it's frozen, it's the pre-shake that's important. Matt cans or tubs need properly shaking for a couple of minutes first to properly mix the matting agent back into the varnish, otherwise it will dry with a satin finish.

In general when spraying temperature of the can itself is important because it effects the pressure of the spray. That's why people say to warm cans in a bucket of warm tap water before spraying. As you spray the temperature drops (as liquid propellant is converted to gas it sucks up heat, making things cold) so if you have a lot of spraying to do people recommend using multiple cans and alternating them in to the warm water to bring the temperature back up.

Environment temperature affects spraying distance and how long the paint takes to dry. In the context of varnishes I don't really know how that'll affect it, I'd assume if it's too hot you'll get a grainier finish, if it's too cold and you build up too thick of a coat (maybe?) you'll get frosting as the matting agent has more chance to separate out, (maybe?) the matting agent dissolves easier in warm? I don't really know.... I don't spray varnishes from cans very often. I tend to airbrush my varnishes, the temperature control in my airbrushing room isn't great so I try not to do it if my room is much above 22 degrees C. When it comes to airbrushing I seem to encounter more problems related to heat than cold, but where I live it never goes much below 10 degrees C here.

I don't use spray cans for varnishing enough to make any real suggestions other than lacquer based varnishes seem to be the better ones from what I've used, like Testors spray varnishes.

For airbrushing, Humbrol Clear (which is Humbrol's attempt to make an alternative to Pledge's acrylic floor varnish) is one of the tougher glosses I've tested. Though I reckon Testors Glosscote must be tough simply because it's a lacquer and lacquers usually seem to be tougher... but I haven't tested the Testors to know for sure, it's on my to do list! For removing the shine afterwards, I like Vallejo's Polyurethane Satin (the regular acrylic resin satin frosted on me more often than not so I gave up on it). It's relatively glossy, has a sheen similar to many regular paints so tends to bring models back to how they looked when I first painted them. You do have to shake the hell out of it before using it because the matting agent separates easily and takes a while to mix back in. I've also started to get in to the habit of mixing my own "satin" by mixing gloss varnish and matte varnish. When I'm painting something I usually have an idea of how much sheen I want it to have so I just play around adding more gloss or more matte until I get what I want.

The primer choice itself is important too. Think of it like the tar that keeps the gravel on the road. If the tar sets and doesn't grip the surface beneath, it can be lifted as one layer with the gravel.
Doesn't matter if you put more tar, gravel or cement over it, if there's no adhesion at the very base, you're fighting a losing battle.

So wash your minis, even the metal ones, and choose a primer that has a little tooth to it, allowing a good grip.
Personally I'm not into GW sprays/brush on for this reason.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
The primer choice itself is important too. Think of it like the tar that keeps the gravel on the road. If the tar sets and doesn't grip the surface beneath, it can be lifted as one layer with the gravel.
Doesn't matter if you put more tar, gravel or cement over it, if there's no adhesion at the very base, you're fighting a losing battle.

So wash your minis, even the metal ones, and choose a primer that has a little tooth to it, allowing a good grip.
Personally I'm not into GW sprays/brush on for this reason.

I used army painter and didn't like it, so I've largely switched back to GW, which I find is better but also not great. What else do people recommend?

 Fifty wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
The primer choice itself is important too. Think of it like the tar that keeps the gravel on the road. If the tar sets and doesn't grip the surface beneath, it can be lifted as one layer with the gravel.
Doesn't matter if you put more tar, gravel or cement over it, if there's no adhesion at the very base, you're fighting a losing battle.

So wash your minis, even the metal ones, and choose a primer that has a little tooth to it, allowing a good grip.
Personally I'm not into GW sprays/brush on for this reason.

I used army painter and didn't like it, so I've largely switched back to GW, which I find is better but also not great. What else do people recommend?

There are literally hundreds of posts on "spray primer" do a search - you will get a LOT of hits.

However, those hits will result in a few common themes -

* some folks love the colored primers (army painter).
* MANY people use krylon or rustoleum primers from the hardware store (cheap, but works).
* some love airbrush primers (vallejo surface primer is an amazing choice).
* once in a while you will get someone who uses some other brand, or who says "why should i use primer".

Me, personally, I use either army painter or, hardware store primer, or very rarely, for an exceptionally high detail single model I use vallejo surface primer in the airbrush.

best of luck.