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 sing your life wrote:
Space Marine Terminators

/thread

TH/SS Termies do quite well.

Archon, Mandrakes in 5th DE Codex, Orkanauts, Wyches, Flash Gitz

God the formatting in this thread is horrible. Horrible rules that look sweet, I find land raiders and the IG tanks. How the huge walkers are better than a heavy tank boggles my mind.

Land Raiders. Overpriced, undergunned and surprisingly fragile.

Leman Russ Vanquishers
Grey Knights Venerable Dreads
Deff Dreads
Inquisitors

Dark Eldar. Enough said.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Dark Eldar. Enough said.

I dunno, I've seen Venomspam do some terrible things to opponents. 12 poisoned shots plus a couple of blasters and splinter rifles from ONE platform is pretty obnoxious. The Dark Artisan formation ain't bad, either. I mean, I know it's pretty monobuild but it's not like Ork-level of suck. Now, the Archon's Court certainly qualifies as beautiful models with gak rules, compounded by the tragedy of Finecast-only releases.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Dark Eldar. Enough said.

I dunno, I've seen Venomspam do some terrible things to opponents. 12 poisoned shots plus a couple of blasters and splinter rifles from ONE platform is pretty obnoxious. The Dark Artisan formation ain't bad, either. I mean, I know it's pretty monobuild but it's not like Ork-level of suck. Now, the Archon's Court certainly qualifies as beautiful models with gak rules, compounded by the tragedy of Finecast-only releases.

I agree with this. I played against a Dark Eldar list with like 6 venoms and 3 ravagers, with two units of jetbikes and a flyer. They trashed my Ravenwing very badly, partly due to some serious tactical blunders on my part but also because my opponent really knew how to use his army. I think all the complaining about DE is way off base after that game.

Dark Eldar usually do very well against relatively elite opponents like Ravenwing or Deathwing and the like. The problem is when they come up against something like Tau or Imperial Guard or Craftworld Eldar, they fall apart rather dramatically.

With my CSM's, going all the way back to 4th edition, my wins against DE are very few, but I don't think I've ever lost to DE with my IG in any edition.

Thousand sons.

smackpie wrote:
flash gitz

Flash gitz are not that bad at all, take about 7 and put them in a Big Trakk. I painted mine because I just love the models and since then have been using them consistently. They are not reliable but do some mighty fine execution every other game or so when you roll right for AP.

 Peregrine wrote:
40k Lightning. The 30k Lightning is great, but the 40k rules are stuck in 3rd edition where a single autocannon was a pretty good weapon for a vehicle. It's just laughably undergunned compared to the other IG flyers and costs almost as much. The only remotely useful thing you can do with the model is try to proxy it as an Avenger.

Edit: proof that the model is great:

Lightning

I have never liked it until now, that model looks fantastic. Great paintjob!

What came to my mind when I saw this thread: Flayed Ones - great models, great rules, but bad price.

Tactical Marines - the saviour of mankind.
Jack of all trades but master of none.

 wuestenfux wrote:
What came to my mind when I saw this thread: Flayed Ones - great models, great rules, but bad price.

Tactical Marines - the saviour of mankind.
Jack of all trades but master of none.

I was about to say, Flayed Ones got fantastic rules with their update.

But yeah, terrible price.

 wuestenfux wrote:
What came to my mind when I saw this thread: Flayed Ones - great models, great rules, but bad price.

Tactical Marines - the saviour of mankind.
Jack of all trades but master of none.

Yep - tactical marines win out for me too.

The Tyranid maleceptor is a killer model, but complete garbage rules.

 TheSilo wrote:
The Tyranid maleceptor is a killer model, but complete garbage rules.

Spoken like a true hero.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
What came to my mind when I saw this thread: Flayed Ones - great models, great rules, but bad price.

Tactical Marines - the saviour of mankind.
Jack of all trades but master of none.

Yep - tactical marines win out for me too.

Tactical Marines are bad

 krodarklorr wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The Tyranid maleceptor is a killer model, but complete garbage rules.

Spoken like a true hero.

GW: "hey guys, how about a worse version of a hive tyrant with a 2 warp charge witch fire on BS3 that wounds 50% of the time, doing d3 wounds or a glancing hit?"

"Sounds good, make it 200+ points!"

 TheSilo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The Tyranid maleceptor is a killer model, but complete garbage rules.

Spoken like a true hero.

GW: "hey guys, how about a worse version of a hive tyrant with a 2 warp charge witch fire on BS3 that wounds 50% of the time, doing d3 wounds or a glancing hit?"

"Sounds good, make it 200+ points!"

I honestly would compare it to a worse Tervigon. Both are slow, roughly the same size, and are Synapse. But for 5-10 points cheaper, you get +1 Wound, +1 Armor save, a ranged weapon, and spawns free points of units.

Mmmmm, makes me wanna buy 10 Maleceptors, if you ask me. I mean, after all, I just want them for my painting collection and not for actually using.

Sanguinary Guard. They so desperately need that invun save, another points reduction or some extra rules that makes them more in line with being the cream of he Blood Angels army fluffwise. They are 165 points base, but once you give them some upgrades like the banner and maybe an infernus or plasma pistol, they can easily get to 200 points.

Yes, in the right circumstances they can do alright (attached character/priest/librarian and against the right opponent), but whenever I have fielded them, they just die too quickly due to the amount of AP2 weaponry in the game. Look pretty, but have never impressed for me.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

smackpie wrote:
flash gitz

Flash gitz are not that bad at all, take about 7 and put them in a Big Trakk. I painted mine because I just love the models and since then have been using them consistently. They are not reliable but do some mighty fine execution every other game or so when you roll right for AP.

Flash Gitz are awesome, people are just jealous of that flash dakka But seriously Flash GItz just need 4+ armor and then they would be great. Rolling the right AP turns them into a murder machine and they aren't chumps in close combat either (they can out punch most shooty infantry). I find them great at killing MEQs but are incredibly dependent on a transport (Battlewagon with Killkannon works well). I've seen some near jaw drops from my opponent who watched his unit of 10 man Grey Hunters turn into a fine red mist from the Gitz packing basically micro railgun rounds.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Space Marine Terminators

/thread

TH/SS Termies do quite well.

They... they do ok. The shields can't do gak against high volumes of non-AP2 shots that will utterly unless they take a land raider that costs over 500pts in total, but they can beat down most TEQs and MCs if get their positioning right. They're at least not an obselete trainwreck like regular SB/PF terminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Khorne Berserkers (lol! models aren't even from this century!)

They're not even from this millennium

Experiment 626 wrote:
Great Models (especially with tons of conversion potential!) + Horrendously Awful Rules;
Forge/Maulerfiend

In what world are Maulerfiends bad?

I'm just going to echo what everyone else says, but the huge stand-out for me is the Tyranid Maleceptor. Possibly the single most beautiful plastic Tyranid model, yet it has the worst rules of any of the Tyranid monstrous creatures. A real shame.

Caederes wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Great Models (especially with tons of conversion potential!) + Horrendously Awful Rules;
Forge/Maulerfiend

In what world are Maulerfiends bad?

They're better in the Khorne Daemonkin book, but really, they need higher WS and at least double their current basic attacks. The new Dreadnought profiles tear these guys to pieces quite literally.
The only way to use Maulers is you have take 2-3, because 1 simply can't kill anything of even remote value.

At least Forgefiends get 8 shots to make up for their lousy BS3... (though they still cost too much, like pretty much everything does in that train wreck of a Codex)

 Vankraken wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

smackpie wrote:
flash gitz

Flash gitz are not that bad at all, take about 7 and put them in a Big Trakk. I painted mine because I just love the models and since then have been using them consistently. They are not reliable but do some mighty fine execution every other game or so when you roll right for AP.

Flash Gitz are awesome, people are just jealous of that flash dakka But seriously Flash GItz just need 4+ armor and then they would be great. Rolling the right AP turns them into a murder machine and they aren't chumps in close combat either (they can out punch most shooty infantry). I find them great at killing MEQs but are incredibly dependent on a transport (Battlewagon with Killkannon works well). I've seen some near jaw drops from my opponent who watched his unit of 10 man Grey Hunters turn into a fine red mist from the Gitz packing basically micro railgun rounds.

And that's what makes them worth it. Perhaps not every game, perhaps only one in three, but when they are killy they are dead killy.

I prefer the BIg Trakk since it is cheap and ignores 'crew shaken' results.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Space Marine Terminators

/thread

TH/SS Termies do quite well.

Archon, Mandrakes in 5th DE Codex, Orkanauts, Wyches, Flash Gitz

Tactical Termies are in the same boat as Tactical Marines.
Power fist and stormbolter. They usually die before they can dish out some damage.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Caederes wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Great Models (especially with tons of conversion potential!) + Horrendously Awful Rules;
Forge/Maulerfiend

In what world are Maulerfiends bad?

They're better in the Khorne Daemonkin book, but really, they need higher WS and at least double their current basic attacks. The new Dreadnought profiles tear these guys to pieces quite literally.
The only way to use Maulers is you have take 2-3, because 1 simply can't kill anything of even remote value.

At least Forgefiends get 8 shots to make up for their lousy BS3... (though they still cost too much, like pretty much everything does in that train wreck of a Codex)

A Maulerfiend also moves twice as fast as a Dreadnought - meaning you don't need to buy a Drop Pod for it - and is much harder to both stop and destroy. At worst it is a mediocre unit. It's actually one of the few decent units that Chaos Marines have access to.

The WS3 and I3 on the maulerfiend hurt a lot. It's faster than most walkers and gets a 5+ invul, but being an AV12 Heavy Support combat walker with A2 means it is, at best, mediocre.

WraithLords and WraithBlades. Both are gorgeous models with fantastic kits, but horrible rules. Points cost and slow movement make them unusable.

WraithLords are basically Eldar Dreadnaughts without the option to take a Drop Pod or be taken in squads. At least the WraithBlades can be alternately built as WraithGaurd to be used

 Galef wrote:
WraithLords and WraithBlades. Both are gorgeous models with fantastic kits, but horrible rules. Points cost and slow movement make them unusable.

WraithLords are basically Eldar Dreadnaughts without the option to take a Drop Pod or be taken in squads. At least the WraithBlades can be alternately built as WraithGaurd to be used

It actually makes me sad that these guys are terrible, but the Wraithknight is so OP. I love the WraithLords, I just wish they got more play time.

 Galef wrote:
WraithLords and WraithBlades. Both are gorgeous models with fantastic kits, but horrible rules. Points cost and slow movement make them unusable.

WraithLords are basically Eldar Dreadnaughts without the option to take a Drop Pod or be taken in squads. At least the WraithBlades can be alternately built as WraithGaurd to be used

If I had no soul and wanted to play Eldar those would be the models I would want to use. I absolutely hate the Wraithknight model (even when it was just a heavy support) but I generally like the way the smaller wraith models look.