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Just saw that this launched today .. didn't see it posted yet (sorry if I missed it?)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/widowers-wood-an-iron-kingdoms-adventure-board-gam



I backed it, looks like fun

I backed also. I haven't played the under city, which is the first version of this game, but the support it constantly in no quarter with new missions. I'm sure they will do the same with this, which is one of the reasons I've been excited for this.

I should probably take some of that excitement and just go play undercity.

The name just screams for bad jokes Widowers woody?

At least the board looks slightly better than Undercity's...

I dig this. I haven't ever gotten around to building a WM/H army, but I've always liked the Hordes background and this looks like a perfect opportunity to get into that universe on the lighter side of investment.

Just to be clear they note that the models are not accepted in competitive play as models or bases for conversions. I will say it looks interesting. I know it'll deliver so if the value gets there I'll consider it. Granted I'm not sure it won't be cheaper at retail so the exclusives and stretches have a lot to make up for.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Just to be clear they note that the models are not accepted in competitive play as models or bases for conversions. I will say it looks interesting. I know it'll deliver so if the value gets there I'll consider it. Granted I'm not sure it won't be cheaper at retail so the exclusives and stretches have a lot to make up for.

Oh yeah, I just wanted this as a foray into the universe as opposed to starting any armies with it. That is odd that they specify that though, are the models of a different scale than the existing WM/H stuff? I mean, not even as the base for conversions sounds odd (although I realize WM/H is pretty damn strict on count-as and conversions for games).

That seems strange.. is there a reason why they won't let you use these models for Warmahordes? Or just "because we said so" ? is it like that for the Iron Kingdom RPG too? Haven't followed that.

Seems like a silly idea to not try and make some extra cash from crossover sales..

Yes, it specifies both the undercity game and this one are not legit models for tournaments. It's in the faq at the bottom.

I think the models are slightly smaller that regular warmahordes models, which is another reason.

The bases are slightly smaller than they are supposed to be. But the models in some cases are the same sculpts. If you rebase and paint them the only way to tell is by picking them up since, most of the original models are still metal.

 squall018 wrote:
I backed also. I haven't played the under city, which is the first version of this game, but the support it constantly in no quarter with new missions. I'm sure they will do the same with this, which is one of the reasons I've been excited for this.

I should probably take some of that excitement and just go play undercity.

That's great IF you subscribe to NQ. But as it is, Undercity as a game by itself is horribly overpriced at it's RRP of 95 usd and I feel this might be the same.

Might pick it up when it inevitibly finds it's way into the MM clearance bin, but only for cheap figs.

Sining wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
I backed also. I haven't played the under city, which is the first version of this game, but the support it constantly in no quarter with new missions. I'm sure they will do the same with this, which is one of the reasons I've been excited for this.

I should probably take some of that excitement and just go play undercity.

That's great IF you subscribe to NQ. But as it is, Undercity as a game by itself is horribly overpriced at it's RRP of 95 usd and I feel this might be the same.

I agree that 95$ is over priced for seven scenarios, but the fact that they continue with support helps a lot with that. Plus, you can get it anywhere for 70$ on any online retailer. Seems reasonable to me, but I do get NQ, which helps a lot.

Right now the KS is probably a little high, but I expect them to fill it out with some stretch goals. We'll see.

I got it at gencon. For full RRP. Was a huge mistake since the scenarios were so limited.

I feel like at the very least for their rrp of 95, it should have everything that imperial assault does in terms of replayability. Yet, it's not even close. I would even have accepted zombicide type scenarios but nope.

They really should release those scenarios for free imo because putting it in NQ is a bit like releasing it as DLC since you have to pay for them and the base game by itself feels incomplete without additional scenarios.

I'm really interested in this, and where it goes, but the initial offering was pretty sad.

High initial goal for what amounts to the same thing we'll see at retail, with nothing extra to entice us to pledge now? Sure. Why not.

Pictures of the content? Nah. At least they got content lists up pretty quickly. When this went up there was no explanation at all about the included expansion either.

What will be real telling is how they do the stretches.

Still, it's the first day, but for a "big" company like Privateer to step up to the KS plate, I'd expect a better showing.

Yeah I agree, I was hoping for a bit more. I like what I see so far though and just like the other big boys I'm sure it will be a great deal in the end

Funded.

25k (?!?) until next goal.



Not sure how I feel about that big of stretch, but it'll get crossed no doubt.

We'll let the Circle players have their fun I guess. More heroes are more heroes at least. I wonder if they'll alter the sculpt up of the Hunter any.

Sure, make good Gatormen and a great Pendrake and forbid people from playing with them to protect your hideously expensive units cast in a terrible plastic. Your fanboys will protect you from mean comments on your forums and praise you for being the underdog compared that other company (as they call GW).

Same as with GW I'd enjoy PP products if they were cheaper with higher quality standards (finecast, PP's crap plastic, Trollkin changing their hand sizes, brutal scale variations a la Black 13, wrong amount of fingers even for some models) and just a sliiight attitude makeover.

Binabik15 wrote:
Sure, make good Gatormen and a great Pendrake and forbid people from playing with them to protect your hideously expensive units cast in a terrible plastic.

To be fair, these box will be "Board game plastic" which is a rubbery PVC derivative anyway, so if you hate the PVC figures (and as a big PP fan, I loathe it and won't have it in my collection if at all possible) then this box won't improve your situation. PVC killed any and all interest in Relic Knights for me, which was a big shame as I am not afraid to admit I enjoy the anime aesthetic in all its forms. Its a blight on the hobby that needs to go away, but sadly its ever increasing in popularity among companies as it lets them sculpt in metal style (undercuts) but cast in plastic prices :(

I've played half of undercity and its not a bad game at all, the criticisms of the maps were fair, but it doesn't hamper the fun too much.

I'd be looking to pick this up as much for the IKRPG possibilities than anything else, but the initial pledge price is a little rich for my blood. maybe when the expansions arrive it will be better value.

Having backed all the SDE kickstarters to date, I don't mind PVC as much for board gaming, but it is a shame PP can't get a hustle on with the conversion to HIPs. Its slowly gaining pace, but China keeps throwing them curveballs I fear.

Not really interested in board games. Is it worth it?

I hate the PP plastic as well, it is way worse than even modern boardgame stuff. My Blood Rage minis blow away my PP plastics (some of the Fennblades have almost completly flat arms, wth, resculpted every single one of them). With their joints set up like SDE minis I have I guess it's the same factory and my SDE stuff was wayyy cheaper. Which is why I probably wouldn't have backed this game anyway, but how they immediatly make the minis tournament illegal is rubbing me the wrong way. And I never, ever would even WANT to play in on official setting, but it's so needlessly restricitive right off the bat.

Perry Miniatures and other small-ish companies can afford to make HIPS moulds partnering with Renedra or Chinese companies, PP are not that small, I bet they could. But why do it if you can sell 5 mould-line brimming Trollkin with soft details for 45€.

Until they switch to HIPS I'll continue to sculpt my own minis or convert other ranges to expand my Circle force (except for a metal figure every now and then, but the distiribution kerfuffle made my favourite shop stop selling PP, so that'll stop as well).

 wuestenfux wrote:
Not really interested in board games. Is it worth it?

How familiar with the WM/H combat system? It uses that, with a little bit of game AI, to create a dungeon crawl a la Descent/SDE/Warhammer Quest etc.

Undercity is good enough fun, though a little limited in replayability due to the scenario nature of the game (though NQM has included new scenarios and the cahracters have a skill tree that means you can play in different styles every campaign) This is essentially the hordes (wilderness) version.

If you IKRPG its great for some useful models (the tatzylwurms for example) as well as giving some new options for gaming tiles.

I've certainly played worse board games, and I think the PP core ruleset is pretty solid, and actually works well at lower model counts, so is well suited to a board game nature. If you have never played WM or IKRPG, this is as good a way to learn it as any other option as they all use the same core 2d6 + stat vs stat system. Its a much better system than single die rolling as there is a curve.

Though if you are not interested in board games, it might have limited appeal. Still, board gaming is my go to these days, I have gone off competitive gaming, so a team game where you all win or lose together is a lot more enjoyable for me at present.

Binabik15 wrote:

Perry Miniatures and other small-ish companies can afford to make HIPS moulds partnering with Renedra or Chinese companies, PP are not that small, I bet they could. But why do it if you can sell 5 mould-line brimming Trollkin with soft details for 45€.

Until they switch to HIPS I'll continue to sculpt my own minis or convert other ranges to expand my Circle force (except for a metal figure every now and then, but the distiribution kerfuffle made my favourite shop stop selling PP, so that'll stop as well).

They have started. They are (were) using a factory in China for their expansion into HIPs. So far we have two battle engines (CoC and Minions, two (soon to be four) Warjack of renown kits and the just announced Cryx Colossal which highly suggest the rest of the new Colossal kits will also be HIPs.

They have stated they will keep doing PVC for "organic" kits which means hordes will likely see not much styrene, and we have seen a lot of lines changed over on the infantry front (Trolls Skorne and ret have been hit hard recently) but I do hope they eventually put the energy into fully embracing HIPs and bringing PVC to a close.

Still feel they would be better off investing in bringing it in house as per GW, that's what gives GW a lot of their market strength. By the time you have dealt with the hiccups working with China can bring, maybe investing in the tooling and staff training would pay off...

This one still has a long way to go value wise. Especially when you can currently grab Undercity for less than $60 on MM.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Just to be clear they note that the models are not accepted in competitive play as models or bases for conversions.

That's pretty weak isn't it?
Why artificially limit the usefulness of the models?

I guess that's the way PP roll, and their customer base seem to accept it. But there is a difference between not allowing models from another range and not allowing your own models.

The no tournament rule is stupid.

How many of us use to stick both regular and advanced Heroquest, Battlemasters, and Quest figures into their respective armies?

 Zywus wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Just to be clear they note that the models are not accepted in competitive play as models or bases for conversions.

That's pretty weak isn't it?
Why artificially limit the usefulness of the models?

Their hardcore, livestreamed, full-metal mayhem, pro championship tier 1 events are serious business. You better play like you got a pair and bring the proper, more expensive models. They don't want plebs showing up with cheap board game figures to tarnish the awesomeness.


/sarcasm

Their official reasoning don't make much sense either.

Steven Gregor wrote:Eesh... I hate to be a downer, but I just read the FAQ and I might need to withdraw. While I was looking forward to playing this with my gaming group, realistically I can only expect to get a couple games of Widower's Wood in per year; not enough to justify shelling out $140 when I could buy three or four indie games for the price. What sold me, however, was the idea of getting to sprinkle some exciting resculpts into my Minions army (Pendrake and the Club Gators look amazing) during my weekly Warmachine/Hordes sessions. While I doubt many PGs will care if I bring some well-painted WW minis to a tournament, the fact that they aren't allowed tells me that they're either A) so low in quality that no amount of skilled painting can make them usable in Hordes or B) that Privateer Press doesn't want its players to 'get over' by using these (slightly) cheaper minis in their flagship game, which is a very cavalier way to treat someone willing to spend two weeks' grocery money on a product they won't see for a year.

Privateer Press wrote:Hi Steven, in a way you've hit the nail on the head. The quality of the figures in Widower's Wood is not of the same quality as WARMACHINE and HORDES figures. The material is a less rigid plastic and while it is perfectly suitable for the needs of a casual board game is not meant to be a substitute for our high quality wargaming figures.

It could be reasoned that the WW models are of such bad quality that it would lessen the experience of the people attending a official tournament and they should be able to expect "high quality wargaming figures". That would mean that the WW models are horrible products however and they're not really that much different from the metal versions?

Even if the rule would be to protect tournament participants against facing sub-par miniatures, do Warmahorde players really care that much about that. Are there even painting requirements in most officlal tournaments? I bet a well painted and based WW model is a lot more pleasing to look at than a "high quality" metal model that's unpainted, only primed or just with a really lazy paintjob anyway.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Not really interested in board games. Is it worth it?

If you're not interested in board games, there's no point in backing a board game KS I guess? The models can't be used in tournaments and in terms of the material used, they're made of a very soft and cheap plastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXgTxSvSpU

This is a comparison of the previous PP models to other dungeon crawlers.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Just to be clear they note that the models are not accepted in competitive play as models or bases for conversions. I will say it looks interesting. I know it'll deliver so if the value gets there I'll consider it. Granted I'm not sure it won't be cheaper at retail so the exclusives and stretches have a lot to make up for.

Oh common. Some of the minis look better. than the ones they produce for the regular warmahordes game..
It makes sence, if they are not size compatible though. Are they even out of the material, that can be painted properly, i.e. not rubbery boardgame crap?
PS: actualy managed to read the comments above, and got answers to all my questions