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2016/02/17 15:43:46
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
The amount of elitism on display here is staggering.
They freely admit to making a gak product and tell people not to bring them to official events because it would detract from the "high-quality" figures?
Interesting way to "promote" the game you're trying to raise money for. They're certainly selling like they've got a pair.
Seeing as compatibility between games is something that PP has profited immensely from, it's an unusual position to take.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2016/02/17 15:58:19
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
I guess.. lucky for me I don't play tournaments like ever? So I'll happily use the minis for whatever I want
I think 25k for the next goal was a little steep, but no different from the other big campaigns. Hopefully they close that gap a little for later goals when things slow down
2016/02/17 16:04:22
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Note that "official events" is really just the ones Privateer Press officially runs themselves... individual press gangers running tournies are free to do as they like and can allow / disallow conversions. I've got an entire converted army and many local press gangers have told me they're cool with it (it is fully painted, although not by me - and I'll also be labelling the bases before using it in a tourney).
Mostly I just need more practice because I'm terrible at the moment having just gotten back into playing Hordes . But while the PP policy is strict on paper, it's much like GW and other companies' policies of the past - in their stores, or at their events, you have to use their models. But in the end, even with PP, that is a small minority of events - most are run by volunteers and they can allow things if they wish. I can't imagine any of them not allowing this Pendrake model over the former version, for instance!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 16:14:53
2016/02/17 16:22:03
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
RiTides wrote: Note that "official events" is really just the ones Privateer Press officially runs themselves... individual press gangers running tournies are free to do as they like and can allow / disallow conversions.
So if it will only affect a small number of tournaments, why disallow the models in the first place?
It just comes off as petty, or as a lack of confidence in the WW miniatures.
Considering the elitism shown at WM/H official events, I don't doubt that Privateer is content to cash in on this while being adamant about the models being disallowed from proper play.
They are an incredibly hobby/conversion unfriendly company, and happily foster a "just show up with half-assembled, unpainted whatever...", but only insofar as it helps benefit them.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2016/02/17 19:05:44
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
25k for 4 more additional figures that were already included in the box.
Literally said out loud "You've got to be kidding me, that's it?" after I saw your post. Seriously? Privateer Press really thinks that offering four more miniatures(of what may very well be the same sculpt) is a good idea for a stretch goal??
2016/02/17 19:12:45
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Not only that- they said in the comments that there won't be any add ons. Not sure how they expect to hit big goals when things are already starting to trickle.
It's really a bit of a head scratcher. Has nobody in the Privateer offices actively followed big money making Kickstarters before?
Are they just expecting to coast along on the strength of their tabletop game, especially considering the two will be officially incompatible?
I know it's early on, but considering how much funding usually comes in during the first few hours/ days, especially from larger properties and more established companies, I really feel like they squandered away a big opportunity.
Having both backed and watched triple digits worth of campaigns, I just see a lot of stumbles that could have been them really lighting things on fire.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
Fully agree with you. It's also really strange not seeing a "track" for upcoming stretch goals - most, if not all, of the gaming related Kickstarters I've seen have done a graphic that shows what levels of funding the next stretch goals need, and maybe a tease about what it is. I almost wonder if they looked at a few successful campaigns but didn't spend enough time/energy researching the why's and how's of those successful Kickstarters.
2016/02/17 20:47:49
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
RiTides wrote: Note that "official events" is really just the ones Privateer Press officially runs themselves... individual press gangers running tournies are free to do as they like and can allow / disallow conversions.
So if it will only affect a small number of tournaments, why disallow the models in the first place?
It just comes off as petty, or as a lack of confidence in the WW miniatures.
The official Steamroller rules include the following:
All models used in Privateer Press organized play events
must be Privateer Press miniatures from the WARMACHINE
or HORDES lines. The miniatures must be fully assembled
on the appropriately sized base for which the model
was designed. The use of non–Privateer Press models,
unassembled miniatures, or inappropriately based models is
not permitted.
So as of right now, the steamroller rules already disallow these models, as well as the models from the IKPRG Unleashed box and the Iron Kingdoms miniatures line. If I were a betting man, the reason d'etre for these rules are these beauties:
Privateer Press aren't saints, but they're pretty fan friendly As others have noted, I'm not sure they'd enforce the rule most the time.
Finally, I know there are some very old divisions in IP ownership between the various founders of PP, which is one of the reasons Warmachine (which was partially created by earlier members) and Hordes are still distinct game lines from a commercial and legal standpoint. I would not be surprised if they try to keep the universes separate as much as possible.
2016/02/17 21:27:21
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
I think they are just running this as a streamlined "either you want the game or not" campaign.
I think they just really want the exposure kickstater gives and a backer # to show off. So no Add-ons because they want to see the backer # more than anything else. They don't want to sqease backers for every dime, thy just want people to buy the game.
2016/02/18 14:03:33
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
So for 25k...and for a 100 dollar game, i get...9 missions now? Assuming it's the same length as undercity + 1 mission. WOW
Guess I'll just have to pay more and subscribe to No Quarter to supplement my 100 dollar game -_-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 04:27:31
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2016/02/19 04:30:15
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
RiTides wrote: Note that "official events" is really just the ones Privateer Press officially runs themselves... individual press gangers running tournies are free to do as they like and can allow / disallow conversions.
So if it will only affect a small number of tournaments, why disallow the models in the first place?
It just comes off as petty, or as a lack of confidence in the WW miniatures.
The official Steamroller rules include the following:
All models used in Privateer Press organized play events
must be Privateer Press miniatures from the WARMACHINE
or HORDES lines. The miniatures must be fully assembled
on the appropriately sized base for which the model
was designed. The use of non–Privateer Press models,
unassembled miniatures, or inappropriately based models is
not permitted.
So as of right now, the steamroller rules already disallow these models, as well as the models from the IKPRG Unleashed box and the Iron Kingdoms miniatures line. If I were a betting man, the reason d'etre for these rules are these beauties:
Decent figures, the game just doesn't get much promotion for whatever reasons.
Stuff like Grind and Puppet Wars: Unstitched tend to suffer from "Wargame miniatures being sold to board game players" syndrome--too many parts in the way of someone wanting to just sit down and play.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/19 04:32:34
2016/02/19 12:13:40
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Zywus wrote: It could be reasoned that the WW models are of such bad quality that it would lessen the experience of the people attending a official tournament and they should be able to expect "high quality wargaming figures". That would mean that the WW models are horrible products however and they're not really that much different from the metal versions?
Even if the rule would be to protect tournament participants against facing sub-par miniatures, do Warmahorde players really care that much about that. Are there even painting requirements in most officlal tournaments? I bet a well painted and based WW model is a lot more pleasing to look at than a "high quality" metal model that's unpainted, only primed or just with a really lazy paintjob anyway.
They can't be so bad that their presence is worse than the ugly paper circles that seem to pass for "terrain" at tournaments now. :( You might as well use wooden cylinders with the model name written on the top.
2016/02/19 17:35:35
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
PPS_Simon wrote:Hey all, I just addressed this on BGG but wanted to repeat the info here.
As for how we're structuring stretch goals:
Spoiler:
We structured our stretch goals at $25,000 intervals in an attempt to make the campaign as simple as possible to follow and in hopes of creating a rhythm to the frequency with which we would cross stretch goals throughout the duration of the campaign. In other words our desire was to create a stretch goal progression that allowed us to offer bigger rewards (new heroes with all their accompanying cards or new groups of multiple villain figures) without having to threaten the momentum of the campaign by having to apply a larger funding goal to cover the required very real costs of creation and production.
The interval amount for the stretch goals was arrived at through much evaluation of the quotes provided to us by the factory that will manufacture the game. Until we are able to place an actual order with the factory (the quantity for which we will not know until the end of the Kickstarter campaign) the quotes are simply estimates provided at theoretical quantities.
The amount of money each stretch goal provides to the project must account for all of the costs associated with not only the creation of the goal, but with the continually increasing costs of providing that and all previous stretch goals to the growing number of backers who join the project and help reach the next goal. For instance, our current average pledge amount is approximately $175 per backer (rounding off), so based on that, achieving a stretch goal requires the addition of around 143 new backers to reach that $25k interval. When we cross the $175k interval and unlock the new Lanyssa Ryssyl figure, we’ll also be adding 143 more sets of swamp shambles, 143 sets of Crede & Jaggers, etc. The overall quantity of each stretch goal reward should grow by approximately that number, each time we cross a goal. As higher quantities are ordered, the price per unit does go down, which is part of what makes this system work, but the volume advantage to production pricing does not have a large impact on costs until we get into much higher quantities produced.
In the case of rewards that include new figures, there are also fixed tooling setup charges that aren’t affected by volume, which range from $4k-6k or more depending on the size and number of figures. A reward like the mission pack does not necessarily cost as much as a new miniature, but by alternating the stretch goals between new figures, more of existing figures, and print rewards or other rewards that do not have significant setup costs associated with them, we can amortize the sunk costs like the expensive tooling across all of the goals as the cost to fulfill each of those goals rises with the growing number of backers.
To sum it up, not all stretch goals cost the same amount to produce, but each new goal means we’re spending more to fulfill all the previous stretch goals, and by gauging our expenses against a consistent stretch goal interval, we can spread out the costs and keep the campaign simple without fear of running into production pitfalls that might impact delivery of the project down the road. With variable reward levels and no way of knowing how many people will back the project, what our final average pledge per backer looks like and what the final costs for the project will be is based on our best guess, informed by our years of producing these kinds of products. So, the campaign we’ve structure ensures that we will deliver the final rewards to our backers as efficiently and expediently as possible.
I was afraid logic of this type would be used to justify the structure of the campaign. Not least because it means that (unless this is complete bull) PP is committed to this layout of the campaign. Which in turn... means that I think this is very likely to under-perform.
It's rather telling how empty all the discussion sections are, whether here, on the official forums and on Kickstarter;
Compare this to my favorite campaign of Boardgame excess, Kingdom Death:Monster;
Again, this is a comparison of comments, not pledge amounts.
There are a lot of problems with this campaign, but the one that I think is really going to sting over time is... it's just so expensive.
It's also rather shocking when you actually notice how little the base $100 game contains: of the currently available 7 heroes, only 4 come in the retail game/base game. To me that says... that this is a money grab, to be honest. If that doesn't change, then the 'complete game' will functionally be the kickstarter exclusive game version.
That seems like it's motivated by the thinking that "hey, we don't want people to just wait and buy this at 10-20% off at a retailer... let's make it so that the KS version is the real version." To be clear, I'm not at all saying there shouldn't be things that are exclusive to KS, but when the difference is this profound, it really makes me contemplate what the thinking could be.
You only have to look at the Ghostbusters game to see how that "KS version is the real version" turned out. The core game is such a hollow and incomplete experience without the KS exclusive content. Even my FLGS manager discourages people from purchasing the game in it's current state.
"You never see toilets in the 41st Millennium - that's why everyone looks so angry all the time." - Fezman 1/28/13
2016/02/19 17:51:25
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Considering places like Miniature Market are already discounting Ghostbusters pretty heavily as well, that says something too.
For a Kickstarter "for the fans" it certainly doesn't feel like it. It feels like Privateer's going to do what they can to maximize their profits with as little fiscal impact on their own pocketbooks.
I'm most likely dropping this. I think we'll probably see an exodus in the next week or so if PP don't take some steps to get things even a *little* more exciting.
Comments are dead. Discussion here is dead.
Very sad.
At least I've got things like Masmorra and Darklight to look forward to.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
wuestenfux wrote: Not really interested in board games. Is it worth it?
If you're not interested in board games, there's no point in backing a board game KS I guess? The models can't be used in tournaments and in terms of the material used, they're made of a very soft and cheap plastic.
This is a comparison of the previous PP models to other dungeon crawlers.
Well, I play Cryx and Cyriss. My only interest in the board game would be the usage of the models in regular games. So from what has been said, I'll not buy it.
Former moderator 40kOnline
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Yeah, I was really hoping for something more. I love the IK IP in general but as time goes by even just being a few days old this one is feeling like a dud. Feels like they really need to do more on the promotion side, get some game play or painting videos going, have blogs and vlogs talking about it... I'd mention the stretch goals but that horse has been beaten.
2016/02/19 18:43:42
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
My pet theory is that somebody at PP really likes boardgames, and keeps trying to make them. The problem is that they tend to not do very well. Undercity in particular got lit up like Chinese New Year for it's limited game play.
Hobby Board Games are serious business now, and competition is fierce. You can't sell a lot of units just by being the only box with heros and orcs.
My guess is that they went with Kickstarter to make sure they avoid taking a loss, and keeping somebody happy. In a smaller company, and PP is very much still a smaller company by any management standard, personalities are very important. If making board games is important to somebody, and that person is important to PP, they'll keep trying to figure out ways to make and market board games.
On the flip side... I think this is, in a way, a pure sort of kickstarter. It's not presented as a monty haul for backers, it's not unrealistically low in its initial goal, nor does it promise more and more to build interest. It's a creator saying, "I want to make this. Anybody interested?"
Now, it's our duty as informed consumers to say, "hell no, I can get a better $100 board game any time I want!"
. But while the 
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
