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 MLaw wrote:
Do we REALLY think they'd invest the manpower and resources to developing a boardgames and NOT have it go to retail?

PP are producing a minimally viable product to cash in on the KS board game craze. They have admitted that they regard the quality as gak. I really would not be surprised if they only produced enough to fulfill backer pledges and not a copy more.

Ah.. well.. that made decision making easier, thanks

 Nostromodamus wrote:


PP are producing a minimally viable product to cash in on the KS board game craze. They have admitted that they regard the quality as gak. I really would not be surprised if they only produced enough to fulfill backer pledges and not a copy more.

I wouldn't say that. They said that the figures are not quite as high quality as their hard plastic and metal figures, but I have handled the ones from Undercity and the quality is fine. I certainly wouldn't call them gak. Some of the figures do have bending issues, but that can be fixed with the old hot water/cold water treatment, and the thicker figures are solid. Some pictures of painted Undercity miniatures can be found here.

On another note, the project unlocked another stretch goal over the weekend, adding four more viper tatzylwurms, for a total of 83 miniatures currently included in the Deluxe Pledge and 54 in the core game pledge:


The next stretch goal is the Boss Swamb Gobber:


And hopefully a new social stretch goal will be posted soon.

[Edited to fix URL destination]

 Slayer Dragonwing wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:


PP are producing a minimally viable product to cash in on the KS board game craze. They have admitted that they regard the quality as gak. I really would not be surprised if they only produced enough to fulfill backer pledges and not a copy more.

I wouldn't say that. They said that the figures are not quite as high quality as their hard plastic and metal figures, but I have handled the ones from Undercity and the quality is fine. I certainly wouldn't call them gak. Some of the figures do have bending issues, but that can be fixed with the old hot water/cold water treatment, and the thicker figures are solid. Some pictures of painted Undercity miniatures can be found http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?246416-Post-Your-Painted-Undercity-and-Unleashed-miniatures.

On another note, the project unlocked another stretch goal over the weekend, adding four more viper tatzylwurms, for a total of 83 miniatures currently included in the Deluxe Pledge and 54 in the core game pledge:

Spoiler:

The next stretch goal is the Boss Swamb Gobber:

Spoiler:

And hopefully a new social stretch goal will be posted soon.

Ehhhh... I dunno that "the quality is fine" for the previous game is really an objective standard. The video evidence tends to mitigate towards them being... not so very high on the quality scale;



They seem a lot closer to Bones (Reaper miniatures) then anything else. But be that as it may, for a pure boardgame experience it may (or may not ,YMMV) be fine.

Personally, it's the lack of new heroes that is killing my excitement for this. There are so many possibilities, and since the first dump that added 3 heroes (all humanoids) there hasn't been much talk about them. It's just turned into a bit of a grind, at least to me.

Here's a playthrough vid for those on the Widower's Wood(en) Fence

 Buzzsaw wrote:


Ehhhh... I dunno that "the quality is fine" for the previous game is really an objective standard. The video evidence tends to mitigate towards them being... not so very high on the quality scale;

They seem a lot closer to Bones (Reaper miniatures) then anything else. But be that as it may, for a pure boardgame experience it may (or may not ,YMMV) be fine.

Personally, it's the lack of new heroes that is killing my excitement for this. There are so many possibilities, and since the first dump that added 3 heroes (all humanoids) there hasn't been much talk about them. It's just turned into a bit of a grind, at least to me.

I personally think they are more rigid and more detailed than Bones. It is hard to get a good idea of what they look like from an internet video, but I have the Undercity and think that they are similar quality to the Warmahordes tabletop figures. There are some examples of what the Undercity figures look like painted here. (I am reposting the link since it didn't work right in my previous post).

I feel your desire for more new heroes too, and am hoping we see some more as stretch goals, but we will have to wait and see.

Those painted models look good but the picture with the human shows the same problem bones have. These soft materials have a LOT of shrinkage and fine facial features on human sized heads (especially noses) tend to disappear. Her nose is almost non-existent. I don't know that that's a damning fact or anything since the main focus of WW is figures that don't have human noses..

As to the Bones comparison. I'm a backer of 2 of the Bones projects already. I have been painting Bones miniatures for a few. They are bendy.. yup. However.. the only problems I have with paint coming off are from me being an idiot and believing the whole "no need to prime" BS that Reaper was claiming. Bending hasn't (yet) been the cause of any of the paint on my figures coming off. That said, I also am not in the habit of grabbing my figures and furiously bending their arms around like that other video a few posts up. I imagine if I were, then maybe I would have some problems.

I'm not trying to take a stance either way, as I am not sold on these types of figures at anything above $1 each.. but.. it's also a game. Cashing in on the craze or not, you can't fault PP for a market that has established $150 board games as the norm. They just happen to be Johnny come lately in this case.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
But be that as it may, for a pure boardgame experience it may (or may not ,YMMV) be fine. .

That's the key, really. The people complaining about the quality seem to be holding them up against wargaming figures and finding them wanting... But they're not wargaming figures. They're tokens for a boardgame, and for that purpose they're more than good enough.

I do find it odd that I've never heard anyone complain about the bendiness of Zombicide minis or Blood Rage minis.

I have handled the material, and the quality is fine. They are made of PVC, and it is a softer PVC than they normally use (a little less bendy than Bones, but you'll need to straighten out spears).

The detail cast well- although not as well as their resin and metal lines.

Overall, I'd be very surprised if this game does not become available after the Kickstarter.

Privateer Press have had non

Privateer Press has a Widower's Wood related Reddit Ask Me Anything event currently going on, you can find it here if anyone is interested.

Meh. Reddit blocked at work.

 Slayer Dragonwing wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:


Ehhhh... I dunno that "the quality is fine" for the previous game is really an objective standard. The video evidence tends to mitigate towards them being... not so very high on the quality scale;

They seem a lot closer to Bones (Reaper miniatures) then anything else. But be that as it may, for a pure boardgame experience it may (or may not ,YMMV) be fine.

Personally, it's the lack of new heroes that is killing my excitement for this. There are so many possibilities, and since the first dump that added 3 heroes (all humanoids) there hasn't been much talk about them. It's just turned into a bit of a grind, at least to me.

I personally think they are more rigid and more detailed than Bones. It is hard to get a good idea of what they look like from an internet video, but I have the Undercity and think that they are similar quality to the Warmahordes tabletop figures. There are some examples of what the Undercity figures look like painted here. (I am reposting the link since it didn't work right in my previous post).

I feel your desire for more new heroes too, and am hoping we see some more as stretch goals, but we will have to wait and see.

I have the undercity models as well. Saying they're similar quality to the wmh models is a total lie, unless you think the wmh models are crap. At the least my wmh models aren't so damn bendy. I've had bases for the miniatures that are warped and the minis feel like rubber. Compared to a lot of other boardgames I own, under city has really bendy and soft figures

Sining wrote:
I have the undercity models as well. Saying they're similar quality to the wmh models is a total lie, unless you think the wmh models are crap. At the least my wmh models aren't so damn bendy. I've had bases for the miniatures that are warped and the minis feel like rubber. Compared to a lot of other boardgames I own, under city has really bendy and soft figures

Being bendy isn't in itself a sign of poor quality. The level of detail is the important issue, if you're looking for wargaming-quality miniatures.

I'd like my wargaming miniatures to not be incredibly bendy as well.

Sining wrote:
I'd like my wargaming miniatures to not be incredibly bendy as well.

Really? These are not WARGAMING MINIATURES.. they're boardgame pieces. This is like comparing the WotC pre-paint D&D figures to the chainmail pieces they did in metal.
If these are going to be viewed as bulk purchase super cheap minis then their closest comparison is Reaper Bones. Which, from all accounts, they're comparable to. If they are to be compared to tabletop miniatures (which PP has made clear is NOT the goal) then the price would need to be substantially higher for that level of model. Thinking we can have our cake and eat it too is misguided.

Well, it looks like the 'lul' period is well and truly in force now;



Two days of sub $1k gains in the last week, no backsliding at least though.

For those curious, I stand by my earlier critique that the real excitement that drives a boardgame campaign is different heroes, and WW (for some reason) frontloaded all the heroes and hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) even teased any of the ideas people were advancing (they totally should be making the female warpborn skinwalker I suggested).

There remain a lot of choices in this campaign that I simply don't understand. The most inexplicable is the decision that the models are outright banned from tournament play. That just strikes me as a completely unnecessary poke in the eye to backers.

It's avoiding a poke in the eye to existing players of their main game.

They could be worried that people play their games for their games rather than their mini quality...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
their mini quality...

*looks at unassembled pile of bent, moldline-ridden Convergence restic gak*

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
their mini quality...

*looks at unassembled pile of bent, moldline-ridden Convergence restic gak*

In fairness.. I just got in a box of Steelhead Halbrieders (for converting into Hobgoblins) and the quality is fantastic. Same for the Swamp Gobber chef.

...though..

Both of those are metal kits.. sooo..

skarsol wrote:
It's avoiding a poke in the eye to existing players of their main game.

The problem with that idea, which I do understand, is that this kind of reasoning mitigates against ever making anything better. After all, somebody has to be the last person to buy the 'crappy PVC' version of a kit before it gets redone.

It seems like a variety of the gambler's/sunk cost fallacy: that making improved or alternate kits devalues existing kits. Which is, to a certain extent, true, but it's not the whole picture.

It would seem to em that the best argument against that logic is that new (better) kits, as well as new ways to get into the game... bring new and different people into the game.

So, let's imagine they let people use these in official events, what's the cost? Well, established gatorman players that had to buy metal gators earlier now see a lot of people using these PVC figures. But at the same time, loads more people will be getting into gators, because just by buying into WW, you now have a bunch of models that work for a gatorman force. But you still need to buy Gatorman warlocks, solos, beast, etc. It also means that people that are already in Warmahordes that had considered Gators, but avoided taking the plunge for fear of the costs, now have a reason to buy into WW because it does dual service.

Of course, like I said, to me the interesting part of these campaigns is the heroes. Would be nice to see some talk about a new one...

skarsol wrote:
It's avoiding a poke in the eye to existing players of their main game.

Isn't that saying that these models are of such bad quality that they would disturb players if they were brought to tournaments?

If so that's a pretty damning indictment of models you're attempting to sell.

I dunno.. I see it as a way to familiarize people with models they might not be familiar with or willing to drop a bunch of money on. I own a fair amount of Bones... The models from that which really stood out to me have me adding the metal counterpart to my collection or at the very least my wish list (except for the big stuff which is usually quite good in bones).

I mention it because, I have window shopped Privateer Press stuff for a long time. Outside of the 2 purchases I mentioned earlier, I haven't bought anything of theirs since Warmachine came out. I used store credit from a 40k tournament I won to pick up some Hordes stuff when it was fairly new but I think that's been almost a decade ago. Cut to 2016, where I'm seeing units costing what I consider to be borderline absurd prices (some are purely absurd to me) so the sticker shock alone has me reluctant to buy anything or even break out my old stuff for a spin.

If I do back this, it'll give me exposure to a LOT of models and I think people like me who may have grown away from PP's games might be the target audience here (wild guess based on nothing). That sort of target audience is IMO unlikely to wander into an officially overseen tournament. Likewise, I think the diehard PP fans who are probably the other large portion of target audience probably already have tournament level armies. Again.. this is all speculation.. but I still maintain that people expecting to get $2 models that are comparable to their restic or metal counterpart aren't being realistic at all.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zywus wrote:

skarsol wrote:
It's avoiding a poke in the eye to existing players of their main game.

Isn't that saying that these models are of such bad quality that they would disturb players if they were brought to tournaments?

If so that's a pretty damning indictment of models you're attempting to sell.

Privateer also has an RPG setting and as a father who wouldn't mind some of these bendy things for my 12 and 13 year olds, the lower cost entry level models aren't hurting my feelings. It allows me to teach them W/H without having to sell a kidney/car/house/family member..

 Zywus wrote:
Isn't that saying that these models are of such bad quality that they would disturb players if they were brought to tournaments?

If so that's a pretty damning indictment of models you're attempting to sell.

No it isn't.

If I have a company that makes, say, rally cars, and I run regular rally tournaments for people who own my rally cars... and then I release a little two-seater, battery-powered city hopper that I don't allow to enter my rally tournaments, is that a sign that my new car is poor quality?

Or is it just a sign that it's designed for a different purpose than the rally cars are?


Same thing here... If the miniatures aren't as good quality as wargaming miniatures, that's only an 'indictment' of them if they're actually being sold as wargaming miniatures.

They're not. They're tokens for a boardgame.

What if your cheaper rally car you now sell is functionally identical, but less flashy?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
What if your cheaper rally car you now sell is functionally identical, but less flashy?

Functionally identical? Meaning they serve the same function... which.. is to sit on the table and be a counter for a game? By that logic, a piece of toast is functionally identical as is a rock or a smudge of belly button lint. However, since the people who make this have exempted these from the rules.

This is the weirdest discussion/argument ever.. it's "these are terribly horrible bendy figures with really bad details.. but we demand the right to use them in tournaments!!!".. what? I .. don't even..

Some people want cheap armies, and the board game models represent (or can easily be slightly modified to represent) the same things.

And no, the analogy would be comparing a piece of okay but overpriced toast to a piece of burnt toast that happens to be cheaper. Some people wouldn't want the worse one, some people would want a deal, and the diner slaps the crappy one out of their hand and says crappy toast only goes with crappy coffee, not nice coffee!

I prefer nice toast at a decent price to either, though, so I don't like that diner.

 insaniak wrote:

 Zywus wrote:
Isn't that saying that these models are of such bad quality that they would disturb players if they were brought to tournaments?

If so that's a pretty damning indictment of models you're attempting to sell.

No it isn't.

If I have a company that makes, say, rally cars, and I run regular rally tournaments for people who own my rally cars... and then I release a little two-seater, battery-powered city hopper that I don't allow to enter my rally tournaments, is that a sign that my new car is poor quality?

Or is it just a sign that it's designed for a different purpose than the rally cars are?


Same thing here... If the miniatures aren't as good quality as wargaming miniatures, that's only an 'indictment' of them if they're actually being sold as wargaming miniatures.

They're not. They're tokens for a boardgame.

The difference between models and the car analogy is that cars have function beyond their appearance, models don't.

Either the miniatures for WW are of so low quality that there are legitimate reasons for why you won't allow them in your tournament. (They have such low quality that people can't see what the're supposed to represent) or it comes of as petty. A arbitrary restriction of what you're allowed to use the models for.

Judging from the pictures, to me it looks more like the latter.
Does Warhahorde 'official tournaments' usually have painting requirements BTW?

You're still missing the point - Being considered not good enough to be used in their wargaming tournaments doesn't make the miniatures bad. It just makes them bad for use as wargaming miniatures ... Which they're not designed to be in the first place.

A Monopoly token is also quite bad quality compared to most wargaming miniatures. But as a boardgame token, it's perfectly acceptable. And still would be even if the company that makes Monopoly also made a wargame that used similarly designed but better quality miniatures.

Guys.. again.. let's get the story straight..

Is the complaint that the models are of such crappy quality they're not worth buying like some people are saying or that they're so good, you want to use them as your army in tournaments?

And all that toast.. man.. now I'm hungry :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
You're still missing the point - Being considered not good enough to be used in their wargaming tournaments doesn't make the miniatures bad. It just makes them bad for use as wargaming miniatures ... Which they're not designed to be in the first place.

A Monopoly token is also quite bad quality compared to most wargaming miniatures. But as a boardgame token, it's perfectly acceptable. And still would be even if the company that makes Monopoly also made a wargame that used similarly designed but better quality miniatures.

THIS!

Look at the Dungeon Saga pieces.. they are utter GAK.. I am not sure how Mantic feels about using them in events but would you really want to?