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This post started by talking about how to make Thousand sons work didn't it?
I have just painted up a unit (they look so cool, and the fluff is great) I'm dying to use them but having read the last two pages of posts it appears they're far too niche, far too expensive, and despite a 4+ invulnerable save far too easy to kill.
I think I will hope they get some sort of boost when the new codex comes in about a years time, until then they can remain my favourite ornaments.
I've been playing a while, my first model was a lead marine and my first White Dwarf was bound with staples
Keep in mind that if they stay alive until turn 3( rhino use and hiding) you'll hopefully have taken out some of the enemies serious firepower/ heavy support and whittled down their squads full of TS killing small arms.
Your oblits and longer ranged powers will have been doing all the heavy lifting.At that late stage, TS squads are a bit more survivable, that's when the enemy is going to try break cover get his good assaults in and a squad of ap3 bolters can be handy.
They don't magically become good but aren't going to crumple because someone remembered to bring a powerfist.
Huron black heart wrote: This post started by talking about how to make Thousand sons work didn't it?
I have just painted up a unit (they look so cool, and the fluff is great) I'm dying to use them but having read the last two pages of posts it appears they're far too niche, far too expensive, and despite a 4+ invulnerable save far too easy to kill.
I think I will hope they get some sort of boost when the new codex comes in about a years time, until then they can remain my favourite ornaments.
Thousand Sons are a strange unit. They die the same to bolter fire as marines do. However, they will stay and fight a dreadnought or monstrous creature for several turns. So, their durability is extremely mixed and situational.
I have tried fielding them and my take was they simply soak up way too many points for not being able to kill much other than MEQ. Cool looking, fluffy unit good for casual games. Take them to a tournament and you will be very frustrated.
I took what I consider to be a reliatively fluffy TSons army to a decent sized tourney and documented my experiences and the games played.
Hopefully you can get something from that, or at least believe me when I say stuff about how the units work (unlike some others here who have no idea how units actually work and repeatedly give out terrible advice).
(snip)
I spent time reading the content of the link. Loads of good stuff and convinced me about some daemon model. Do you think that combining daemons and putting other deepstriking units as suggested by previous posters can bring something, or is better backup with armor in any case?
More importantly, THANKS. The list of tactical advice in the post is amazing! Many, many thanks.
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Roknar wrote: Well, renegades offers you something that you will be sorely lacking...(cheap) bodies. A renegade infantry platoon is cheaper than the same amount of cultists. They are weaker with their WS/WS 2 but that's not really saying much. On the other hand they get pseudo fearless and can all get krak grenades, which makes them a whole lot scarier than cultists if you ask me. And you can divide them up to cover more ground than cultists, since having 30 guys over 3 units makes cultists even more expensive in comparison. Although depending on your stance on mutants, a mutant rabble makes for an excellent tarpit that might also be able to scout or dish out a lot of S4 hammer of wrath attacks. Which are also +1 strength and not a flat 4, so if they get buffs, the would get a better HoW yet.
The command squad probably isn't going to do much for you since it wouldn't be the primary detachment, but you have to take it either way. So, you might want to take an autocannon on that and maybe stick it in a rhino and pretend its a razorback lol. The Enforcers are good if you have a mutant rabble. Better leadership and rage on a large mob is decent. 3 rogue psykers actually end up cheaper than a ML 3 sorcerer, but even in a Tzeentch list...I dunno. depends on the terrain and your expected opponent I guess. Unnatural vigour would help that mob actually get somewhere and creeping terror is nice vs non marines, but 12 inch means you can never cast it unless you put the psyker in a transport. In which case he would be all on his lonesome. And the sorcerer gets an free powerweapon and power armour along with his better stats, so they're probably not worth it.
aren't rogue psykersan additional HQ unit? How can I fit them in an ally detachment?
e army or mechanized, I find it's a steal at 30 points. It's like the equivalent of 4-5 tactical squads minus the need for line of sight AND can hit units that are tied up in combat.
Divination from crimson slaughter is of course also interesting, especially with the TSons, since they could now have ignore cover on Ap3 bolters. Or a 4+ invulnerable on a blob and rending means those 30+ flashlights suddenly become a lot scarier. Prophet of the voices on the other hand seems less useful to me. Possesed aren't exactly fitting the TSons theme imho, and the kasyr lutien legacy let's you reroll the bothersome dice while still allowing you to join any unit you want. It also happens to be cheaper. Though you can loose it over the course of a battle.
Possessed and Gal Vorbak used as spawns would be the remnants of the mutated, lost original 1000k sons; to avoid more of THAT, Mr. A cast the rubric. Not sure about possessed, but maybe the Vorbak-spawns are in the line.
Overall biomancy isn't that good but enfeeble will help both bolters and flashlights. Either daemonlogy is good. And pyromancy is more useful if you go the black legion route since you now have 4/6 pyromancy powers. Fiery Form and yuranthos are pretty nice. With enough sorcerers you can apply soulblaze to an entire army, though that of course depends on how much infantry they're packing. Telepathy is ..well...telepathy lol. Can't go wrong there.
In general you'll want to save points were possible. Although, personally I find ten man TSons better than min sized. They just don't do enough with 4 bolters. I still take the rhino to block sight and/or cap objectives but I prefer to footslog them once they are in range of a unit.
I guess I'll try to get some kind of list together when I have a moment.
This are good suggestions about psypowers. Thanks!
BTW, since it turns out cultists are invaluable, i put some cultists and traitor guard on the pipeline, I will use them as one or another in base of the situation.
nareik wrote: If you are using the Tsons as tax to unlock sorcerers, how about using some of the sorcerers as sorcerers proper?
[spoiler]Something like
CAD1
Hairyman
Sorcerer
4 Tsons +sorc
4 Tsons +sorc
CAD2
Sorcer
TermiSorc
4 Tsons+sorc
4 Tsons+sorc
That uses all 5 sorcerers, the unique and the terminator. Obviously add more units to flavour; this is just a way to maximise the sorcerors and include a few rubrics... Edit: just realised, the second CAD can't take Tsons as troops; that only works on the warlord's detachment. Doh!
With so many sorcerers, have you considered mounting one on a disc of Tzeentch and giving him a burning brand?
The disc is a jetbike so boosts his T to 5, which is pretty nifty. Maybe you could deploy him with your 'spawn' to act as his bullet catchers?
For the terminator I'd consider replacing his combi bolter with a power weapon for the additional melee attack (as well as more versatility in attacks). Otherwise perhaps keep him cheap and use him as a distraction mutilator?
Spoiler:
CAD1
My boy Azhek A., chief librarian of the O.G. librarian legion
Sorcerer
You can have as many Combined arms detachments as you can afford, you don't need an allied detachment for that. But still, I don't think the psyker will do much for you.
Also, hmm, you make a good point about mutated TSons. Never thought of that. Food for thought.
Still no list in the works though, sorry. I got a tooth removed and I haven't been in the mood for...well..anything since lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/25 01:49:43
The numbers (mostly squad sizes) aren't precise, and the presence of the Gifts on everyone goes against Thousand Sons fluff (technically, I'm only borrowing the rules for a cult army), but that's roughly the gist of the list.
It's not brilliant, but it can handle itself. I expand it with more Thousand Sons squads (filling them out to 9-strong first, then buying more squads) and Rhinos. Eventually the plan is to add some Daemon Engines, but I don't have the models. ^^;
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Why the Warpsmith? And why Scrolls AND the MURDER Sword? They're overpriced garbage. If you want a Warpsmith you might as well be taking multiple relic vehicles.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I spent time reading the content of the link. Loads of good stuff and convinced me about some daemon model. Do you think that combining daemons and putting other deepstriking units as suggested by previous posters can bring something, or is better backup with armor in any case?
More importantly, THANKS. The list of tactical advice in the post is amazing! Many, many thanks.
No worries mate, hope it helps you to get something out of our much maligned underdogs.
Yes, depending on your playstyle, DS'ing units can be very handy. I personally prefer allying with daemons, but that's just me, I see others have success with renegades (FW is not welcome in my meta, so I have no comment there) and with spawn (my spawn don't fill the AV gap that I need in my meta and I can summon crushers to do everything spawn can do bar hide the sorceror in a bunch of T5 wounds), so either of those can be the way to go too, depending on what models you like, what playstyle you favour and what your meta is like. If you face lots of small arms fire, then spawn are great because T5 and multiwound, if you face lots of high str shots, then renegades would be handy due to loads of bodies, if you want more psychic power and denial dice, Tz daemons are the answer. Taking Div on your sorceror opens up the possibility of scriers too, so your reserves are at least a little more timely, though you'll have to invest in daemons with icons if you want scatter mitigation.
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Furyou Miko wrote: I run a Thousand Sons army, technically, based around this very idea.
It's okay against the casual lists my friends bring, but those are mostly 30k Marine lists.
My roster looks something like this;
CSMCAD;
Ahriman
Warpsmith (GoM, Scrolls of Magnus, MoT, Sigil of Corruption, Murder Sword)
The numbers (mostly squad sizes) aren't precise, and the presence of the Gifts on everyone goes against Thousand Sons fluff (technically, I'm only borrowing the rules for a cult army), but that's roughly the gist of the list.
It's not brilliant, but it can handle itself. I expand it with more Thousand Sons squads (filling them out to 9-strong first, then buying more squads) and Rhinos. Eventually the plan is to add some Daemon Engines, but I don't have the models. ^^;
It's also not legal, since TSons are only troops in the primary detatchment. The fact that the DP is running without wings or armour, the extreme wasted points on the warpsmith, the lack of mobility in the entire army, wasted points on GoM (which could easily be armour and wings on the prince) and absolutely no way to hurt an AV over 10 besides lucky psy powers or hitting things means that's a pretty terrible list (even if it wasn't unbound).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/26 19:26:41
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
Thank you all. I think I have something to work with.
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
Hi OP, just realised we gave some wrong advice in the thread.
Most of the elite-troop switches in the chaos codex state 'In a primary detachment ... ' meaning the troop switch only applies to that detachment.
However, for the sorcerer entry it notes 'IF a primary detachment ... ' meaning the trigger for the troop switch requires a MoT sorc in the primary detachment, but the troop switch itself is army-wide.
In other words, unlike the special characters and MoK/Sl/N Lords, when a MoT Sorc is in your army's detachment Thousand Sons can be taken as troops in any of your chaos space marine faction detachments!
