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Zarius wrote:
So, I want to make sure I understand this correctly: You don't understand that the act of replacing a Scout's Bolter with, say, a Plasma Pistol could be considered an upgrade? AP2, Str7 weapon, you see NO upgrade potential there? Or a meltagun? Sure, short-as-crap range, but AP 1 (there aren't even Armor 1 units that I'm aware of), Str 8. You wouldn't call that an upgrade for, say, a unit meant to go after light/medium tanks?

Are you serious?

I don't care what you consider an upgrade or not.
If the game lists it as an option, it is an upgrade.
It looks like you are still using IRL mechanics to determine things...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I actually have a similar question but it is different enough to warrant asking, though it may be worth a new thread.

If you have a tank that can take a pintle mounted Multilaser and also can replace all of its Multilasers with Lascannons, can you end up with a pintle mounted lascannon?

Is the pintle mount a seperate structure from the lascannon, or is it part of the lascannon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rasko wrote:

Zarius wrote:
So, I want to make sure I understand this correctly: You don't understand that the act of replacing a Scout's Bolter with, say, a Plasma Pistol could be considered an upgrade? AP2, Str7 weapon, you see NO upgrade potential there? Or a meltagun? Sure, short-as-crap range, but AP 1 (there aren't even Armor 1 units that I'm aware of), Str 8. You wouldn't call that an upgrade for, say, a unit meant to go after light/medium tanks?

Are you serious?

I don't care what you consider an upgrade or not.
If the game lists it as an option, it is an upgrade.
It looks like you are still using IRL mechanics to determine things...

YOU said "you don't understand" when I was talking about upgrades. The rules expressly state that "A scout may replace boltgun for <other gun>" not to replace the scout with a scout having a <gun> instead of a bolt gun, so what the heck is there not to understand?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or, to put it another way, the MODEL is upgrading because he's swapping out gear, but the whole model is not being swapped out. Because the model is being upgraded, the unit as a whole is also upgraded, but only as a de-facto upgrade. The model is changing out gear, but not being swapped out completely.

Assume that I have 5 scouts in my Wolf Scout unit.
I decide that I want to put sniper rifles on all five of them.
By the rules, each of my five scouts replaces their bolt guns with a sniper rifle. That is a gear swap for the model, NOT a model swap.
I still have the same 5 scouts, in the same Wolf Scout unit, NOT a set of new scouts.
I then choose to take camo cloaks, which costs 10 points (5 scouts * 2pts per scout, comes out to 10 pts).
According to the rules, the scouts are TAKING the cloaks, NOT being replaced with scouts that already have the cloaks.
I now choose to add three more models to the unit (which directly adds to the cost of my pre-existing Camo cloak purchase, because the rule specifically states that all Wolf Scouts take it, not just the ones I choose).
I then choose to swap two of their bolters for Plasma guns.
Again, per the rules, I am replacing the individual scouts' boltguns with plasma pistols, NOT replacing those scouts with models that already have plasma pistols.
I then choose to swap the 3rd new guy's, or number 8's, boltgun with a Meltagun.
Once more, the rules state that the scout replaces the bolt gun with a Meltagun, NOT that the boltgun scout is replaced with a Meltagun scout.

The rules for how the units upgrade when taking new/replacement gear is clear. The scout stays put, and swaps one piece of gear for another.
What precedence is there for completely replacing a specific model when 'upgrading', rather than just replacing the gear - and thus changing the profile of an EXISTING model, rather than swapping the model for one that already has the desired profile? I ask it THIS way, because all precedence is to keep the model, but to swap out gear.

Zarius wrote:
The rules for how the units upgrade when taking new/replacement gear is clear. The scout stays put, and swaps one piece of gear for another.
What precedence is there for completely replacing a specific model when 'upgrading', rather than just replacing the gear - and thus changing the profile of an EXISTING model, rather than swapping the model for one that already has the desired profile? I ask it THIS way, because all precedence is to keep the model, but to swap out gear.

It really looks like you still have no clue what is going on...

Do you have a rules quote where it says when you upgrade profiles, you get to keep the model?

By your reasoning, when the Codex wants you to replace something, it explicitly says replace.
It doesn't say:
•May replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader

If it said that, we can logically assume that it gets to keep the model. It doesn't say that.
I guess a further argument could be made that since the Codex doesn't explicitly tell you to "replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader" (because when it wants you to replace something, it always explicitly tells you),
we can logically assume that when it says "upgrade one Wolf Scout to WGPL", it is talking about the entire model and not just the profile.
Maybe you are on to something here.

Rasko wrote:

Zarius wrote:
The rules for how the units upgrade when taking new/replacement gear is clear. The scout stays put, and swaps one piece of gear for another.
What precedence is there for completely replacing a specific model when 'upgrading', rather than just replacing the gear - and thus changing the profile of an EXISTING model, rather than swapping the model for one that already has the desired profile? I ask it THIS way, because all precedence is to keep the model, but to swap out gear.

It really looks like you still have no clue what is going on...

Do you have a rules quote where it says when you upgrade profiles, you get to keep the model?

By your reasoning, when the Codex wants you to replace something, it explicitly says replace.
It doesn't say:
•May replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader

If it said that, we can logically assume that it gets to keep the model. It doesn't say that.

Actually... If it said THAT, I'd assume that you were replacing the the whole model, because it said to REPLACE the profile not alter it.

And, sure, here:
• Up to two Wolf Scouts may replace their boltguns with a:
- Plasma pistol…15 pts/model
- Power weapon…15 pts/model

This is clear. You're replacing the model's BOLTGUN, not the model itself.

Another one:
• Any Wolf Scout may replace his boltgun with a:
- Space Marine shotgun or close combat weapon…free
- Sniper rifle…1 pt/model

Again, clear: replacing boltgun replacement, not model replacement.

• All Wolf Scouts in the unit may take camo cloaks…2 pts/model

Also clear, the scouts are TAKING the cloaks, not being replaced with cloak-wearing models.

Heavy Weapons
A model may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with one of the following:

Also replacing gear, not whole model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The rules expressly state when you are actually replacing something and, more importantly, WHAT you are replacing.

Sure. Agreed on all points. When the Codex wants you to replace something, they make it explicitly clear by actually saying replace and what to replace.
Ironically, I think you might be on to something here.

• May upgrade one Wolf Scout to Wolf Guard Pack Leader
When the Codex wants you to replace something, they make it exceedingly clear by saying the actual word replace and what to replace.
If the Codex wanted you to replace just the profile of the Wolf Scout, it would have said...
• May replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
So logically, we can assume that when the Codex says "upgrade one Wolf Scout to WGPL", it is not talking about just the profile. It is talking about the whole model.

Rasko wrote:
Sure. Agreed on all points. When the Codex wants you to replace something, they make it explicitly clear by actually saying replace.
Ironically, I think you might be on to something here.

• May upgrade one Wolf Scout to Wolf Guard Pack Leader
When the Codex wants you to replace something, they make it exceedingly clear by saying the actual word replace.
If the Codex wanted you to replace just the profile of the Wolf Scout, it would have said...
• May replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
So, we can assume when the Codex says "upgrade one Wolf Scout to WGPL", it is not talking about just the profile. It is talking about the whole model.

I'll agree on THIS part. They are talking about upgrading the model. However, as you have pointed out repeatedly, the word "upgrade" does not INHERENTLY mean replace. Even the third definition, which does actually contain the word "replaced" doesn't necessarily mean to replace the WHOLE object that is being upgraded. I mean, sure, you could replace the whole model. But replacing just the necessary components would also, as previously agreed, qualify as an upgrade.

JUST as an example of the word upgrade, as you have used it (and I'm using a real world because it's applicable, and I don't know the rules well enough to use an in game example), let's say that you need to upgrade your computer because it won't run the newest Call of Duty clone (i don't know, just bear with me). You have TWO choices. You can either A) buy a new computer, replacing the whole thing. That would, as long as you get sufficient specs, be an upgrade to the level you desire. Or B), you can upgrade JUST your RAM, processor, and graphics card. The former gives you extra options, such as a manufacturer's warranty, that the latter doesn't, but the latter is still an upgrade to the computer, replacing things, but *without replacing the whole computer*. You follow?

Zarius wrote:
JUST as an example of the word upgrade, as you have used it (and I'm using a real world because it's applicable, and I don't know the rules well enough to use an in game example), let's say that you need to upgrade your computer because it won't run the newest Call of Duty clone (i don't know, just bear with me). You have TWO choices. You can either A) buy a new computer, replacing the whole thing. That would, as long as you get sufficient specs, be an upgrade to the level you desire. Or B), you can upgrade JUST your RAM, processor, and graphics card. The former gives you extra options, such as a manufacturer's warranty, that the latter doesn't, but the latter is still an upgrade to the computer, replacing things, but *without replacing the whole computer*. You follow?

No I don't follow. What was the point of this?
You have literally just used upgrade in a couple sentences to show one meaning of upgrade.
It has multiple meanings. I have quoted you the multiple definitions of upgrade many times...
You follow?

Rasko wrote:

Zarius wrote:
JUST as an example of the word upgrade, as you have used it (and I'm using a real world because it's applicable, and I don't know the rules well enough to use an in game example), let's say that you need to upgrade your computer because it won't run the newest Call of Duty clone (i don't know, just bear with me). You have TWO choices. You can either A) buy a new computer, replacing the whole thing. That would, as long as you get sufficient specs, be an upgrade to the level you desire. Or B), you can upgrade JUST your RAM, processor, and graphics card. The former gives you extra options, such as a manufacturer's warranty, that the latter doesn't, but the latter is still an upgrade to the computer, replacing things, but *without replacing the whole computer*. You follow?

No I don't follow. What was the point of this?
You have literally just used upgrade in a couple sentences to show one meaning of upgrade.
It has multiple meanings. I have quoted you the multiple definitions of upgrade many times...
You follow?

Yes. I follow. And even the multiple meanings have multiple possible interpretations. Just because I replace a component of something (your third definition), doesn't mean that I inherently replace the whole thing. A hard drive is just a component of a computer, just like a suit of armor is just a component of an infantry model. You can upgrade the whole by replacing just a part, or several parts, of the whole. Upgrading does not inherently require replacement, and replacement for the purpose of upgrading does not inherently require replacing the WHOLE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, as you agreed, the game's rules DO expressly tell you when to replace things, and what to replace.

It names Wolf Scouts may take it, but Pack Leaders don't have that option because it's not stated under THEIR upgrades.

Zarius wrote:
Yes. I follow. And even the multiple meanings have multiple possible interpretations. Just because I replace a component of something (your third definition), doesn't mean that I inherently replace the whole thing. A hard drive is just a component of a computer, just like a suit of armor is just a component of an infantry model. You can upgrade the whole by replacing just a part, or several parts, of the whole. Upgrading does not inherently require replacement, and replacement for the purpose of upgrading does not inherently require replacing the WHOLE.

By that logic, when you upgrade a Wolf Scout to a WGPL, you "lose" 3 special rules (Infiltrate, Move, Scout).
Every single upgrade in the Codex either is a "take" or "replace" to something existing.
The WGPL strictly just "loses" 3 special rules. How can you justify that it was "upgraded"?
If you get to pick and choose, how do you get to weigh what is considered an upgrade or not? The game breaks.

Zarius wrote:
And, as you agreed, the game's rules DO expressly tell you when to replace things, and what to replace.

Exactly. The game expressly tells you when to replace things, and what to replace.
The Codex does not say...
• May replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
So why are you doing exactly that?

Rasko wrote:

Zarius wrote:
Yes. I follow. And even the multiple meanings have multiple possible interpretations. Just because I replace a component of something (your third definition), doesn't mean that I inherently replace the whole thing. A hard drive is just a component of a computer, just like a suit of armor is just a component of an infantry model. You can upgrade the whole by replacing just a part, or several parts, of the whole. Upgrading does not inherently require replacement, and replacement for the purpose of upgrading does not inherently require replacing the WHOLE.

By that logic, when you upgrade a Wolf Scout to a WGPL, you "lose" 3 special rules (Infiltrate, Move, Scout).
Every single upgrade in the Codex either is a "take" or "replace" to something existing.
The WGPL strictly just "loses" 3 special rules. How can you justify that it was "upgraded"? The game breaks.

Zarius wrote:
And, as you agreed, the game's rules DO expressly tell you when to replace things, and what to replace.

Exactly. The game expressly tells you when to replace things, and what to replace.
The Codex does not say...
• May replace the profile of one Wolf Scout with the profile of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
So why are you doing exactly that?

To start with, all three of those rules apply to the whole group if anyone in the group has the abilities, not just the model that has them, so unless all 4-9 of your scouts die before your WGPL, you aren't actually loosing them. You also REPLACE the armor (Scout is for scouts only, and power is for WGPL only, thus this clearly states that the WGPL would loose the scout, but gain the power armor), and gains access to several weapon selections previously not selectable. The WGPL also gains an attack, better leadership, and better armour saves.

Second, even if you lost them flat out, depending on the purpose you wanted the WGPL for, it would still be an upgrade. For example, if you want a tank hunting unit, you gain access to an extra plasma pistol AND meltabombs by upgrading. If, however, you want a ranged support for picking off trash mobs (weaker targets), then obviously taking the WGPL might not be nearly so useful. Whether it's an upgrade or not isn't based *purely* on the unit's special rules, but on what you want that unit to do, and what the model will gain by doing it. Whether YOU consider it an upgrade or not is a personal choice. The manuals clearly mean an upgrade to be simply an alteration in functionality (from current or from base, depending on your outlook), and thus an improvement towards a specific potential goal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I'm NOT talking about replacing the profile of one model* with another model*. I'm talking about making only the most basic necessary alterations to bring the model into line with the profile.

But when a unit changes name, it's profile becomes different.

A Captain/Chapter Master in (Yet again) Terminator Armour cannot perform Sweeping Advances (Unless you're Calgar) and gain the Bulky, Deepstrike and Relentless Special Rules and then also loses the Grenades.. They are reffered to in the codices as either "A (model's original mame) in Terminator Armour may take items from the Special Issue Wargear, Terminator Weapons List, Chapter Relics... etc. (These lists vary from model to model).

At no point has anyone taken a Terminator on a bike, and at no point have they taken a Boltgun or Grenades, because they can't, their name changes, and the upgrades associated with that also change. You do not keep the same weapons carried over, they start again with the Wargear listed on their unit entry and then you go through the specific Terminator Upgrades given, which is why no Termie ever has wielded a boltgun or bolt pistol, or rode in on a bike, or gets grenades. You apply the same principle to this.

The IRL definition of upgrade means bugger all, in general, you lose out with Terminators, but they are still an upgrade in the eyes of the game. In 30k, Power Daggers lower your strength but you keep AP3, it is debatable as to that being an upgrade if it lowers stats or puts you at a disadvantage. The dictionary definition of terms presented by the game do not mean gak. The rulebook, codices and relevant supplements used are your dictionary. I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONCE.

If anything, a WGPL is an even more radical change than the Terminator Captain, because his not only does his name change, he loses Special Rules and has his own set of SR's and wargear given in the unit entry.

By the logic being presented, I'll go and kitbash a Terminator Captain on a Space Marine Bike with a bolt pistol, chainsword, that has grenades on top of his Power Sword and Storm Bolter, because - hot damn - I can do that if I can give a Pack Leader a Camo Cloak and a Sniper Rifle!

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
b]The dictionary definition of terms presented by the game do not mean gak. The rulebook, codices and relevant supplements used are your dictionary. I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONCE.[/b][/i]

First off, mellow your mellons, UltraSmurf. Panties. Untwist.

Second, if the dictionary definition of a word is not going to be use, then you need to show the game's definition. Can you quote where the BRB or codices expressly define what is meant by the word "upgrade" in the same format that they define special rules? Of not, then you really DON'T need to repeat yourself, because your argument is invalid on basis of removing a word with no replacement for it. Without the definition that the game means, the only definition(s) that we have to go with are from the dictionary. As nobody has yet to actually provide a definitive, flat out definition as provided by Gibbering Weasels (GW), we only HAVE the dictionary's definition to use.

Zarius wrote:
Whether it's an upgrade or not isn't based *purely* on the unit's special rules, but on what you want that unit to do, and what the model will gain by doing it. Whether YOU consider it an upgrade or not is a personal choice. The manuals clearly mean an upgrade to be simply an alteration in functionality (from current or from base, depending on your outlook), and thus an improvement towards a specific potential goal.

Do you not see how you are equating what you want the unit to do with what an upgrade is?
The game does not care what you consider an upgrade, and then you immediately say that an upgrade is what you want the unit to do.
The two contradicting sentences are literally right beside each.

Zarius wrote:
And I'm NOT talking about replacing the profile of one model* with another model*. I'm talking about making only the most basic necessary alterations to bring the model into line with the profile.

You misunderstand me again.
Your whole argument that was you take an existing model, give it a Sniper Rifle, and then upgrade to a WGPL.
Wolf Scout model > Wolf Scout model with Sniper Rifle > WGPL model with Sniper Rifle

You are choosing what the game considers an upgrade by changing the stats, replacing the armour, replacing the special rules.
You made a personal choice that that is what this upgrade means. Exactly just this, and nothing else.
However, if the game wanted you to *just* replace these things, it would have said...
• May replace the profile, armour, and special rules of one Wolf Scout with the profile, armour, and special rules of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
Do you not see how you have personally picked that upgrade means stats, armour, and special rules?
That was a personal choice. The game doesn't care about your personal choices.

It says this...
• May upgrade one Wolf Scout to Wolf Guard Pack Leader
We can make a logical assumption that if it meant just the stats, armour, and special rules, it would have said so specifically.
Like it has done so far, for every other upgrade in the Codex.

Zarius wrote:

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
b]The dictionary definition of terms presented by the game do not mean gak. The rulebook, codices and relevant supplements used are your dictionary. I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONCE.[/b][/i]

First off, mellow your mellons, UltraSmurf. Panties. Untwist.

Second, if the dictionary definition of a word is not going to be use, then you need to show the game's definition. Can you quote where the BRB or codices expressly define what is meant by the word "upgrade" in the same format that they define special rules? Of not, then you really DON'T need to repeat yourself, because your argument is invalid on basis of removing a word with no replacement for it. Without the definition that the game means, the only definition(s) that we have to go with are from the dictionary. As nobody has yet to actually provide a definitive, flat out definition as provided by Gibbering Weasels (GW), we only HAVE the dictionary's definition to use.

Can you point me to GW's rules address? I understand that they may not be the best but I have seen no effort being made for contact there.
I understand that there is no rulebook definition, but it really just comes down to the points I made about Terminators, you can't carry over bikes, boltguns etc. So why do it here?

I think this page can shed some light on GW official policy on this matter


https://itunes.apple.com/book/codex-space-wolves-wulfen/id1081612940?ls=1&mt=1110lqaZ

Nvm found the address. Email sent.

So, Rasko, if I may be so pedonistic as to quote myself,

"The manuals clearly means an upgrade to be simply an alteration in functionality"

I clearly stated what GW intends by what they consider an upgrade. YOU are the one that said,

"By that logic, when you upgrade a Wolf Scout to a WGPL, you "lose" 3 special rules (Infiltrate, Move, Scout).
Every single upgrade in the Codex either is a "take" or "replace" to something existing.
The WGPL strictly just "loses" 3 special rules. How can you justify that it was "upgraded"? The game breaks."

I'm not justifying calling it an upgrade. I'm pointing out the difference between what YOU consider an upgrade and what GW considers an upgrade. the only point we're arguing at this point in time is HOW that upgrade is applied, MOSTLY for entertainment (on my part, at least.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, blue is a bad color for this background, I can't read that at all.

Zarius wrote:
I'm not justifying calling it an upgrade. I'm pointing out the difference between what YOU consider an upgrade and what GW considers an upgrade. the only point we're arguing at this point in time is HOW that upgrade is applied, MOSTLY for entertainment (on my part, at least.)

No... You are saying that an upgrade is literally just replacing the profile, armour, and special rules.
That is a personal decision that you made. You decided that to you, upgrade means these things.
If the Codex wanted upgrade to mean that, it would have said...
• May replace the profile, armour, and special rules of one Wolf Scout with the profile, armour, and special rules of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader

The fact that you are arguing for entertainment clearly shows.

Zarius wrote:
Also, blue is a bad color for this background, I can't read that at all.

My bad. I forgot that people actually prefer the black background.
(In case you didn't know, you can change it to a white background in the top left-hand corner with "switch theme". It's easier on the eyes)

Rasko wrote:

Zarius wrote:
I'm not justifying calling it an upgrade. I'm pointing out the difference between what YOU consider an upgrade and what GW considers an upgrade. the only point we're arguing at this point in time is HOW that upgrade is applied, MOSTLY for entertainment (on my part, at least.)

No... You are saying that an upgrade is literally just replacing the profile, armour, and special rules.
That is a personal decision that you made. You decided that to you, upgrade means these things.
If the Codex wanted upgrade to mean that, it would have said...
• May replace the profile, armour, and special rules of one Wolf Scout with the profile, armour, and special rules of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader

The fact that you are arguing for entertainment clearly shows.

Zarius wrote:
Also, blue is a bad color for this background, I can't read that at all.

My bad. I forgot that people actually prefer the black background.
(In case you didn't know, you can change it to a white background in the top left-hand corner with "switch theme". It's easier on the eyes)

I actually do prefer the black background, not overly fond of bright colors, but it's good to know that I can change it

And it's not so much that I'm JUST arguing for entertainment, I more mean that I'm enjoying the conversation because the people involved aren't all gibbering buffoons. You make SEVERAL valid points, and I even agree with some of them, but I do firmly believe that, based on OTHER upgrade rules, the more logical path is to only replace/alter the minimum of equipment and stats to achieve the goal rather than to completely replace a whole unit.

BUT, StabbySmurf is apparently emailing GW, so let's see what (if) they answer to him.

So far nada, they say within 24 hours, so It should be there by six GMT tomorrow.

I'l keep you posted.

Thanks, Smurfy. I didn't even think to even look for an email that would be for rules clarification. I appreciate it.

If someone has an iPad version of the Space Wolves codex the issue can be definitively settled.

https://itunes.apple.com/book/codex-space-wolves-wulfen/id1081612940?ls=1&mt=1110lqaZ

col_impact wrote:
If someone has an iPad version of the Space Wolves codex the issue can be definitively settled.

https://itunes.apple.com/book/codex-space-wolves-wulfen/id1081612940?ls=1&mt=1110lqaZ

I have it on PDF, if that counts? Hard copy isn't with me.

Zarius wrote:
I have it on PDF, if that counts? Hard copy isn't with me.

You misunderstand him... He is saying that the list building software in the iPad version will let us know what the WGPL starts with.
If you have a PDF, you do not have the list building software..

Every single army list building tool will give a new model.
Whether it is Battlescribe or Army Builder, when you add the WGPL option, it does so with strictly it's own starting gear, etc, on a new model. There is no carry-over.

Everyone I've ever met played with information not carrying over. That's why there isn't anyone trying to run Terminator Armour Bikers. Or Sniper Rifle WGPL's.

HondaDaBest wrote:

Zarius wrote:
I have it on PDF, if that counts? Hard copy isn't with me.

You misunderstand him... He is saying that the list building software in the iPad version will let us know what the WGPL starts with.
If you have a PDF, you do not have the list building software..

Every single army list building tool will give a new model.
Whether it is Battlescribe or Army Builder, when you add the WGPL option, it does so with strictly it's own starting gear, etc, on a new model. There is no carry-over.

Everyone I've ever met played with information not carrying over. That's why there isn't anyone trying to run Terminator Armour Bikers. Or Sniper Rifle WGPL's.

Are either of these programs build by GW? Because we have someone currently asking GW, unless I missed something.

Zarius wrote:
Are either of these programs build by GW? Because we have someone currently asking GW, unless I missed something.

The iPad version is the one released by GW. That doesn't mean the programmers know what the rules writers had in mind when they wrote the software and its conditions, or even if they ran the results by the paper developers before releasing them.

Charistoph wrote:

Zarius wrote:
Are either of these programs build by GW? Because we have someone currently asking GW, unless I missed something.

The iPad version is the one released by GW. That doesn't mean the programmers know what the rules writers had in mind when they wrote the software and its conditions, or even if they ran the results by the paper developers before releasing them.

This is an excellent point.

Charistoph wrote:
The iPad version is the one released by GW. That doesn't mean the programmers know what the rules writers had in mind when they wrote the software and its conditions, or even if they ran the results by the paper developers before releasing them.

If that is the way to interpret things officially released by GW...

Can't you apply that logic to literally every single thing in the game?
The Codex writers don't know exactly....
The BRB writers don't know exactly....
The WD people don't know exactly...
etc, etc, etc,

How can we ever do anything with that way of thinking?

HondaDaBest wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
The iPad version is the one released by GW. That doesn't mean the programmers know what the rules writers had in mind when they wrote the software and its conditions, or even if they ran the results by the paper developers before releasing them.

If that is the way to interpret things officially released by GW...

Can't you apply that logic to literally every single thing in the game?
The Codex writers don't know exactly....
The BRB writers don't know exactly....
The WD people don't know exactly...
etc, etc, etc,

How can we ever do anything with that way of thinking?

His response was specifically with reference to MY comment about the fact that Smurf has sent an email to the GW folks asking for clarification, and subsequent question about the army builders. So, stop taking things out of context. And, frequently, the coders DON'T know what the writers intended, or have access to them to ask.