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Founded in M36, the Firehawks are part of the cursed 21st founding. later, in 963.M41 - Firehawks attempt to make a warp jump in the ancient Void Fortress Raptorus Rex and are lost in the warp, becoming the legion of the damned.

My question is, Firehawks were made during the 36th century, would I be able to play them in the HH or is it limited to chapters only from that era? I know that the heresy lasted 7 years. M31 = M7 = M38. Firehawks came out in M36.

Would it be fluff supportive if I played Firehawks during Horus hersey in tournament or not.

M31 to M38 would be 7 Thousand Years, not 7 Years.


005.M31 The Horus Heresy Begins

014.M31 The Siege of Terra

So to answer your quest, no its not fluff supported.

In addition to the misreading of time, Chapters of Space Marines did not exist until the aftermath of the Heresey

 curran12 wrote:
In addition to the misreading of time, Chapters of Space Marines did not exist until the aftermath of the Heresey

Not true even in the slightest, space marine chapters were parts of the Legions, hundreds of chapters in the case of Ultramarines.

The 2nd? Chapter of the blood angels was the flesh tearers.

To answer the op, yes you could do a "fire hawks" chapter, but would have to use the parent Legion rules, no chapter tactics, and use primarily the parent legions colour scheme but with a firehawks chapter symbol on the opposite side of the Legion symbol.

 Formosa wrote:


To answer the op, yes you could do a "fire hawks" chapter, but would have to use the parent Legion rules, no chapter tactics, and use primarily the parent legions colour scheme but with a firehawks chapter symbol on the opposite side of the Legion symbol.

That would make some sense, but the Fire Hawks were not a 2nd Founding Chapter. Though a Fire Hawks themed paldron on a Chapter of Ultramarines could be neat, but ultimately not fitting as the Ultras still had their rigid markings. Maybe a Chapter or Company banner, I guess a Legion Standard actually.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


To answer the op, yes you could do a "fire hawks" chapter, but would have to use the parent Legion rules, no chapter tactics, and use primarily the parent legions colour scheme but with a firehawks chapter symbol on the opposite side of the Legion symbol.

That would make some sense, but the Fire Hawks were not a 2nd Founding Chapter. Though a Fire Hawks themed paldron on a Chapter of Ultramarines could be neat, but ultimately not fitting as the Ultras still had their rigid markings. Maybe a Chapter or Company banner, I guess a Legion Standard actually.

Not as rigid as some think, can't remember which book, but soke of the marines go around with an aurora symbol on there shoulder to represent the viridian star, so it could be a campaign mark, honour badge etc. Or as you say, a really nice banner!

Banner in Flames with a Hawk overlayed on the Ultra symbol. Or a Hawk on the heraldic devices that look like shields on the pauldron some marines (IE Grey Knights) have. Which I totally forget the name of.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Banner in Flames with a Hawk overlayed on the Ultra symbol. Or a Hawk on the heraldic devices that look like shields on the pauldron some marines (IE Grey Knights) have. Which I totally forget the name of.

That actually sounds pretty epic!

In my mind, they'd use alot of Volkite, Flame and Rad Weapons.

Also sorry OP, I got side tracked and ran with my version of your idea.

 Formosa wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
In addition to the misreading of time, Chapters of Space Marines did not exist until the aftermath of the Heresey

Not true even in the slightest, space marine chapters were parts of the Legions, hundreds of chapters in the case of Ultramarines.

The 2nd? Chapter of the blood angels was the flesh tearers.

To answer the op, yes you could do a "fire hawks" chapter, but would have to use the parent Legion rules, no chapter tactics, and use primarily the parent legions colour scheme but with a firehawks chapter symbol on the opposite side of the Legion symbol.

You are mixing 30k chapters and 40k chapters. for the most part, a 'chapter' in the legions that used them were essentially another way to say company. same rule applies to centurions/praetors who went by many different names depending on the legion.

Damn. I totally misread that haha. OP here, being slowed. signing off and shaming my 30k/40k knowledge.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
In addition to the misreading of time, Chapters of Space Marines did not exist until the aftermath of the Heresey

Not true even in the slightest, space marine chapters were parts of the Legions, hundreds of chapters in the case of Ultramarines.

The 2nd? Chapter of the blood angels was the flesh tearers.

To answer the op, yes you could do a "fire hawks" chapter, but would have to use the parent Legion rules, no chapter tactics, and use primarily the parent legions colour scheme but with a firehawks chapter symbol on the opposite side of the Legion symbol.

You are mixing 30k chapters and 40k chapters. for the most part, a 'chapter' in the legions that used them were essentially another way to say company. same rule applies to centurions/praetors who went by many different names depending on the legion.

Some Legions had it where the Chapters were made up of the Companies, at least there has been fluff representing that.

@OP Dont worry about it, there's a reason you asked right?

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
In addition to the misreading of time, Chapters of Space Marines did not exist until the aftermath of the Heresey

Not true even in the slightest, space marine chapters were parts of the Legions, hundreds of chapters in the case of Ultramarines.

The 2nd? Chapter of the blood angels was the flesh tearers.

To answer the op, yes you could do a "fire hawks" chapter, but would have to use the parent Legion rules, no chapter tactics, and use primarily the parent legions colour scheme but with a firehawks chapter symbol on the opposite side of the Legion symbol.

You are mixing 30k chapters and 40k chapters. for the most part, a 'chapter' in the legions that used them were essentially another way to say company. same rule applies to centurions/praetors who went by many different names depending on the legion.

No mix up at all, it's stated many times in several sources X chapter X company bla bla character, company was also used as well are brigade and regiment, only the Ultras as far as I'm aware had a uniform number of companies to a Chapter, others, including the fw hh books have said the number of companies to a Chapter are more varied and the number of marines to a company are varied, iron warriors, Death Guard and world eaters had ad hoc companies that made up a "chapter"

......Oh. Probably worth mentioning:

There is a warship mentioned in the Horus Heresy books whose original commissioned name is Raptorus Rex.

It's Kor Phaeron's flagship, Infidus Imperator. Last seen getting shot rather a lot during and after the battle of Calth. It's not impossible that ultramarines survivors might have boarded the hulked remains and brought her back (suitably reverted to her original name). They might well be philosophical and heraldic ancestors, even if not in direct line, to the M.36 Fire Hawks

locarno24 wrote:
......Oh. Probably worth mentioning:

There is a warship mentioned in the Horus Heresy books whose original commissioned name is Raptorus Rex.

It's Kor Phaeron's flagship, Infidus Imperator. Last seen getting shot rather a lot during and after the battle of Calth. It's not impossible that ultramarines survivors might have boarded the hulked remains and brought her back (suitably reverted to her original name). They might well be philosophical and heraldic ancestors, even if not in direct line, to the M.36 Fire Hawks

Mind = BLOWN

Incidentally, I bet the could be a bitter beginning for the firehawks chapter with the betrayal at calth fueling the hatred towards impurity and a need to quench all betrayal, even the slightest hint of it, with unending flames.

a bit off topic, but what's with an increase in people lookin' to do later chapters? Is it for the fluff (which I get 100%) or do people want to paint their armies up like later chapters to have them for double uses? or is it some other option I'm not getting?

 Brennonjw wrote:
a bit off topic, but what's with an increase in people lookin' to do later chapters? Is it for the fluff (which I get 100%) or do people want to paint their armies up like later chapters to have them for double uses? or is it some other option I'm not getting?

I'm guessing it's the double use. I'm (personally) less happy with it, but I wouldn't refuse a game of it - I just wouldn't enjoy it as much.

 Brennonjw wrote:
a bit off topic, but what's with an increase in people lookin' to do later chapters? Is it for the fluff (which I get 100%) or do people want to paint their armies up like later chapters to have them for double uses? or is it some other option I'm not getting?

I like the Firehawks because of their horrible luck with homeworlds and use of fire to burn all in their path. They are essentially the best martial warriors, fight themselves to get better and use tons of fire raptors and flyers to bring hell to take to the skies.

Jump packs for the command squad? Flying flaming banners firefalling on faces? Fek yea!

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
a bit off topic, but what's with an increase in people lookin' to do later chapters? Is it for the fluff (which I get 100%) or do people want to paint their armies up like later chapters to have them for double uses? or is it some other option I'm not getting?

I like the Firehawks because of their horrible luck with homeworlds and use of fire to burn all in their path. They are essentially the best martial warriors, fight themselves to get better and use tons of fire raptors and flyers to bring hell to take to the skies.

Jump packs for the command squad? Flying flaming banners firefalling on faces? Fek yea!

That first part about the Homeworlds wouldnt make sense in the context of 30k.

But burning all in their path and all that, might I suggest Destroyer Squads and a Moritat.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
a bit off topic, but what's with an increase in people lookin' to do later chapters? Is it for the fluff (which I get 100%) or do people want to paint their armies up like later chapters to have them for double uses? or is it some other option I'm not getting?

I like the Firehawks because of their horrible luck with homeworlds and use of fire to burn all in their path. They are essentially the best martial warriors, fight themselves to get better and use tons of fire raptors and flyers to bring hell to take to the skies.

Jump packs for the command squad? Flying flaming banners firefalling on faces? Fek yea!

That first part about the Homeworlds wouldnt make sense in the context of 30k.

But burning all in their path and all that, might I suggest Destroyer Squads and a Moritat.

I was replying to why the interest in the late founding chapters. It would be neat to run them in 30k but historically, it is not accurate.

Ok, though we have provided ideas for how to just have them be Ultras with a unique badge or two.

Yeah, the best way to run Fire Raptors in a Heresy format is pretty much to run Ultras, with a focus on jump packs (Angel's Wrath Rite of War?) with an eagle or flame icon on one of the shoulder pads. It's not 40k accurate, but works wonders for 30k.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
a bit off topic, but what's with an increase in people lookin' to do later chapters? Is it for the fluff (which I get 100%) or do people want to paint their armies up like later chapters to have them for double uses? or is it some other option I'm not getting?

I like the Firehawks because of their horrible luck with homeworlds and use of fire to burn all in their path. They are essentially the best martial warriors, fight themselves to get better and use tons of fire raptors and flyers to bring hell to take to the skies.

Jump packs for the command squad? Flying flaming banners firefalling on faces? Fek yea!

That first part about the Homeworlds wouldnt make sense in the context of 30k.

But burning all in their path and all that, might I suggest Destroyer Squads and a Moritat.

I was replying to why the interest in the late founding chapters. It would be neat to run them in 30k but historically, it is not accurate.

Probably because Horus Heresy exploded in popularity with Betrayal at Calth and people don't like being forced to choose one of the legions and would rather do a unique one.

I'm doing my 30k army as crimson fists, purely because I don't like any of the legions at present (the ones I like the fluff for I don't like the models for, and visa versa). Just do them the colour you like.

Also, legion of the damned aren't definitely the firehawks, that's only one possibility.

 JamesY wrote:
I'm doing my 30k army as crimson fists, purely because I don't like any of the legions at present (the ones I like the fluff for I don't like the models for, and visa versa). Just do them the colour you like.

Also, legion of the damned aren't definitely the firehawks, that's only one possibility.

Crimson Fists are rather different to the Fire Hawks, seeing as one is a Second Founder, and the other is a Cursed Founding chapter. The resources of the Fire Hawks would be more limited, and probably better represented by FW's own rules for them, or UM rules and colour scheme (but that's my own, admittedly, more hardline view)

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
I'm doing my 30k army as crimson fists, purely because I don't like any of the legions at present (the ones I like the fluff for I don't like the models for, and visa versa). Just do them the colour you like.

Also, legion of the damned aren't definitely the firehawks, that's only one possibility.

Crimson Fists are rather different to the Fire Hawks, seeing as one is a Second Founder, and the other is a Cursed Founding chapter. The resources of the Fire Hawks would be more limited, and probably better represented by FW's own rules for them, or UM rules and colour scheme (but that's my own, admittedly, more hardline view)

I know what you mean, but it's ultimately a game, the rules are there to let you use your toy soldiers, not to dictate what colour you paint them. As long as it's clear what is what and 30k rules are being properly used I wouldn't care what colour scheme was used. Although this may be a mute point if the op has lost interest in the idea following the clarification of the time scale.

 JamesY wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
I'm doing my 30k army as crimson fists, purely because I don't like any of the legions at present (the ones I like the fluff for I don't like the models for, and visa versa). Just do them the colour you like.

Also, legion of the damned aren't definitely the firehawks, that's only one possibility.

Crimson Fists are rather different to the Fire Hawks, seeing as one is a Second Founder, and the other is a Cursed Founding chapter. The resources of the Fire Hawks would be more limited, and probably better represented by FW's own rules for them, or UM rules and colour scheme (but that's my own, admittedly, more hardline view)

I know what you mean, but it's ultimately a game, the rules are there to let you use your toy soldiers, not to dictate what colour you paint them. As long as it's clear what is what and 30k rules are being properly used I wouldn't care what colour scheme was used. Although this may be a mute point if the op has lost interest in the idea following the clarification of the time scale.

Agreed to some extent, but I'm a fluff player. It feels somewhat odd to me to have them using Legion rules (seemingly to gain some kind of mechanical advantage, some might say) when they would more suit the 40k rules.

Again, I can't tell you how to paint your dudes, but I tell you that the fluff side of me isn't 100% keen on 40k painted Fire Hawks using 30K rules. But hey, I'm not playing you IRL, so I'd suggest you take with this to your regular opponents.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 JamesY wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
I'm doing my 30k army as crimson fists, purely because I don't like any of the legions at present (the ones I like the fluff for I don't like the models for, and visa versa). Just do them the colour you like.

Also, legion of the damned aren't definitely the firehawks, that's only one possibility.

Crimson Fists are rather different to the Fire Hawks, seeing as one is a Second Founder, and the other is a Cursed Founding chapter. The resources of the Fire Hawks would be more limited, and probably better represented by FW's own rules for them, or UM rules and colour scheme (but that's my own, admittedly, more hardline view)

I know what you mean, but it's ultimately a game, the rules are there to let you use your toy soldiers, not to dictate what colour you paint them. As long as it's clear what is what and 30k rules are being properly used I wouldn't care what colour scheme was used. Although this may be a mute point if the op has lost interest in the idea following the clarification of the time scale.

Agreed to some extent, but I'm a fluff player. It feels somewhat odd to me to have them using Legion rules (seemingly to gain some kind of mechanical advantage, some might say) when they would more suit the 40k rules.

Again, I can't tell you how to paint your dudes, but I tell you that the fluff side of me isn't 100% keen on 40k painted Fire Hawks using 30K rules. But hey, I'm not playing you IRL, so I'd suggest you take with this to your regular opponents.

I feel similarly for the same reasons, I like the fluff side of things. Heck I would be bothered (but still play against) Crimson Fists using 30k rules, because by the time the Crimson Fists existed as the Crimson Fists the Codex Astartes was in use and as such its Unit Layout would be what is used, not the Crusade Layout.

@ sgt_smudge non of my gaming circle care at all, although it was a question I asked on here a couple of days ago if it would cause a problem in an event.

It's a strange situation, with 40k, alot of gamers don't care about the fluff and it's perfectly acceptable to deviate from it, as long as the rules are followed. Imo, it should be the same for 30k, but some how it isn't. It's no more fluff driven than 40k, but a lot of people are very precious about it. Some people do just like space marines, and want to play 30k because of the different options it opens up, not because they particularly care about fluff. I believe that that's what the black shields have been created to accommodate? (I've only just really gotten into 30k myself so not sure on that, I gave up on the books at Prospero burns).

To me and I suspect a lot of players Horus Heresy is a game about a setting rather than just putting your miniatures on the board. I got into it to recreate the Legions of old and one of the darkest eras in Imperial history. It's a very fluff driven game to most of the people who play it.