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 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

In a passionate plea to Europe’s top conservatives, he accused the EU elites of living in a fool’s paradise and provoking the eurosceptic revolt now erupting in a string of countries.

“It is us who today are responsible,”

That...is remarkably self aware.

I wouldn't go that far, he did refer to the Leave side as "anti-Liberal" in his speech.

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
I too dislike quality control regulations. Enforcing standards of what consumers think things should be like.

Regulations such as the controls on size shape and colour etc of food stuffs are just measures which growers, producers and suppliers want so they can maximise their profits. A lot of regulation is also just a front for protecting manufacturing. You see it a lot in tenders for for government contracts. Specific manufacturing tolerances and measures are used which favours a limited number of bidders - those bidders also happen to be the ones pushing for such regulations....




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 Baragash wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

In a passionate plea to Europe’s top conservatives, he accused the EU elites of living in a fool’s paradise and provoking the eurosceptic revolt now erupting in a string of countries.

“It is us who today are responsible,”

That...is remarkably self aware.

I wouldn't go that far, he did refer to the Leave side as "anti-Liberal" in his speech.

Anyone against the EU is still a radical uneducated heathen.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Those all go along exactly the same lines "it's not democratic because I say so". No one has provided any evidence that the EU is not democratic, just conspiracy and ignorance of how the EU works.

At best, a single nation has control over less a tenth of the European Parliament and 1/28 of the European Council.


As far as democracy goes, it's about as close to undemocratic as you can get.

Source: I spent a year of my law degree studying the European Union. I know exactly why it works and that is why I want to leave.

So I guess citizens of other countries don't count as voters By that argument, Scotland can only have 1/9 of the seats in the House of Commons so the UK isn't much of a democracy either?

I feel that since non of the major countries able to control the EU through the parliament, council and commission is one of it's better features. Currently we already see the problems now Merkel is able dominate decision making on an informal bilateral basis as both Hollande and Cameron are lame ducks in the EU.

 Antario wrote:
So I guess citizens of other countries don't count as voters By that argument, Scotland can only have 1/9 of the seats in the House of Commons so the UK isn't much of a democracy either?

For the UK as a rule it is democratic, but yes, Scotland/Wales and NI can and often do get outvoted - which is why they have steadily campaigned to get more power for themselves over the last 100 years. Indeed Scotland came very close to voting out of the UK because they don't like the current setup, which makes me laugh when I see that so many of them want to stay in the EU which is even worse.

Now the UK is giving more and more power to the devolved nations (maybe not as quick as they would like, but they are slowly doing it) - on the other hand the EU is gradually taking more and more power from it's member states. So your comparison is a little flawed.

EU nationals ineligible to vote, have received polling cards for the referendum:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/02/eu-referendum-eu-nationals-have-wrongly-received-polling-cards-says-iain-duncan-smith

What a shambles. Let's hope this is quickly nipped in the bud for the sake of the referendum's integrity.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
EU nationals ineligible to vote, have received polling cards for the referendum:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/02/eu-referendum-eu-nationals-have-wrongly-received-polling-cards-says-iain-duncan-smith

What a shambles. Let's hope this is quickly nipped in the bud for the sake of the referendum's integrity.

The Government's fethed up big time now. Even if Remain wins, the Leave side now have their Casus Beli. They can claim, with justification, that the vote is null and void because of voting fraud. Even if we vote to remain, this is going to be an ongoing controversy with lots of recrimination and legal challenges for years.

I was really hoping for a fair vote. Feths sake.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
EU nationals ineligible to vote, have received polling cards for the referendum:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/02/eu-referendum-eu-nationals-have-wrongly-received-polling-cards-says-iain-duncan-smith

What a shambles. Let's hope this is quickly nipped in the bud for the sake of the referendum's integrity.

The Government's fethed up big time now. Even if Remain wins, the Leave side now have their Casus Beli. They can claim, with justification, that the vote is null and void because of voting fraud. Even if we vote to remain, this is going to be an ongoing controversy with lots of recrimination and legal challenges for years.

I was really hoping for a fair vote. Feths sake.

Totally agree. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy to 'steal' the vote from the OUT campaign, but I can understand why people would be angry. It's all about perception.

On the other hand, no matter who wins there's going to be people yelling about voter fraud.

Polling cards =/= vote. You need to be registered on the electoral register to receive the voting ballot.

We have to be vigilant for people that lie about their nationality when registering, but in no way have EU nationals just been handed a vote.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Polling cards =/= vote. You need to be registered on the electoral register to receive the voting ballot.

We have to be vigilant for people that lie about their nationality when registering, but in no way have EU nationals just been handed a vote.

Totally agree, but given that a number of Tory constituencies are being investigated over expenses fraud from last year's GE, and given that that we now have this problem springing up, I don't blame people for thinking that Britain is turning into a banana republic.


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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
On the other hand, no matter who wins there's going to be people yelling about voter fraud.

Well, considering the revelations coming out from last year's GE, they may have a point.

It all depends on the proof of identity the polling stations will demand and how vigorously they are checked.

Which all seems rather 'last line of defence' to me. checks should have been undertaken with the issue of the polling card not left to a volunteer on polling day. I don't imagine there will be retrospective checking.

Technicaly we're all EU nationals, until maybe after the referendum

Not that I think theres anything in the story but can't resist

If there is election fraud, it will be eligible voters that did not vote for whatever reason whos vote is used, not non eligible people who were given voting papers. The leak of a story like this could well be a red herring to get any accusations looking in the wrong spot. I have no doubt if leave loses, that some of the leave MPs will take the bait too.

The best way to coverup a conspiracy is controlling what conspiracies people listen to. Control both the official version of events and the conspiracy and youve already controlled the situation.

Electoral problems seem to be becoming a more common occurrence.

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Regulations such as the controls on size shape and colour etc of food stuffs are just measures which growers, producers and suppliers want so they can maximise their profits. A lot of regulation is also just a front for protecting manufacturing. You see it a lot in tenders for for government contracts. Specific manufacturing tolerances and measures are used which favours a limited number of bidders - those bidders also happen to be the ones pushing for such regulations....

I figured that it would be something like this. This is what people mean when they say that the EU is a cabal made up of the national leaders, unelected Eurocrats and big business. The petty over regulations are just there to put all business into the hands of a few big companies. It's very simple; bring in loads of expensive regulations that hamper your business slightly but cripple your smaller competitors who can't afford to deal with them.

I read in the news today that Farage is planning on leading a flotilla of boats up the Thames as part of a pro-Brexit rally!

Say what you want about the guy, but he's comedy gold: trapped in a pub in Edinburgh, plane crashes, 'assassination' attempts, dodgy interviews, chucked out the EU parliament etc etc

Thos youtube videos of Farage always make me laugh - espeically when he took on Nick Clegg.

Yeah he comes across as more likeable than those who rail against them.

I'm seeing lots of Vote Leave posters everywhere, but they're heavily vandalised.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Yeah he comes across as more likeable than those who rail against them.

I'm seeing lots of Vote Leave posters everywhere, but they're heavily vandalised.

Up here in Scotland, it's almost as if we're living in a EU referendum free zone. No meetings, no posters, no nothing.

It feels weird compared to the wall to wall campaign we had back in 2014, when even the dogs had little jackets with Yes or No written on them

As for Farage's flotilla, I bet a virtual £10 that Farage's boat hits an iceberg in the Thames

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I read in the news today that Farage is planning on leading a flotilla of boats up the Thames as part of a pro-Brexit rally!

This could be made funnier if you inserted some dutch tubs...

Pro-EU MPs threaten to keep Britain in the single market, even if there's an OUT vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120



They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

I'd hope that the more principled of them would happily lose their seats if it meant stopping the country sliding into utter ruin.

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

I'd hope that the more principled of them would happily lose their seats if it meant stopping the country sliding into utter ruin.

If the vote is BREXIT, then the British people will demand no less than BREXIT. Shabby parliamentary deals, cooked up in Westminster backrooms to keep us in on a technically will, inevitably, lead to trouble, and nobody wants to go down that route...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


As for Farage's flotilla, I bet a virtual £10 that Farage's boat hits an iceberg in the Thames

Or a WWII UXB silently waiting to sink the flotilla

In other news, some polls are showing Leave in the lead. Game on! Though with the drubbing Cameron got on those debates, it is unsurprising. Watching him squirm as his spin was dismantled by the public was just delicious!

No, I won't post the Gif. I won't, I won't!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Pro-EU MPs threaten to keep Britain in the single market, even if there's an OUT vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120



They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

Called it a few pages back.

IMO, this is the most likely outcome in the event of an out vote.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Pro-EU MPs threaten to keep Britain in the single market, even if there's an OUT vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120



They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

Called it a few pages back.

IMO, this is the most likely outcome in the event of an out vote.

It's also the outcome that's most likely to lead to riots and civil disorder

 notprop wrote:
It all depends on the proof of identity the polling stations will demand and how vigorously they are checked.

Which all seems rather 'last line of defence' to me. checks should have been undertaken with the issue of the polling card not left to a volunteer on polling day. I don't imagine there will be retrospective checking.

Will they check for proof of identity at the polling stations? They don't for general elections. And what about postal votes? If they've sent those out to ineligible people by accident...

 Graphite wrote:

 notprop wrote:
It all depends on the proof of identity the polling stations will demand and how vigorously they are checked.

Which all seems rather 'last line of defence' to me. checks should have been undertaken with the issue of the polling card not left to a volunteer on polling day. I don't imagine there will be retrospective checking.

Will they check for proof of identity at the polling stations? They don't for general elections. And what about postal votes? If they've sent those out to ineligible people by accident...

If there is a query on identity then identity will be asked for.

It seems however that the Electoral register will note what the voter is entitled to vote for and includes anything anomalous information.

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

I'd hope that the more principled of them would happily lose their seats if it meant stopping the country sliding into utter ruin.

I'm guessing you are voting remain? The idea of just ignoring the will of the people because 'you know best' is exactly the kind of thing that the EU does all the time.

The worst thing is these MPs don't even see what would happen - if the established parties went ahead and decided to neglect the will of the people and use a back door to keep our connection to the EU we can expect a massive surge to UKIP in 2020.

Stranger83 wrote:

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

I'd hope that the more principled of them would happily lose their seats if it meant stopping the country sliding into utter ruin.

I'm guessing you are voting remain? The idea of just ignoring the will of the people because 'you know best' is exactly the kind of thing that the EU does all the time.

The worst thing is these MPs don't even see what would happen - if the established parties went ahead and decided to neglect the will of the people and use a back door to keep our connection to the EU we can expect a massive surge to UKIP in 2020.

The latest YouGov poll gives BREXIT a 4 point lead, so it's no wonder that Pro-EU MPs are planning a campaign of guerrilla warfare.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

They can play their Parliamentary games all they want, but if the British public think they're getting a raw deal, then most of these MPs can pack their bags in 2020.

I'd hope that the more principled of them would happily lose their seats if it meant stopping the country sliding into utter ruin.

I'm guessing you are voting remain? The idea of just ignoring the will of the people because 'you know best' is exactly the kind of thing that the EU does all the time.

The worst thing is these MPs don't even see what would happen - if the established parties went ahead and decided to neglect the will of the people and use a back door to keep our connection to the EU we can expect a massive surge to UKIP in 2020.

The latest YouGov poll gives BREXIT a 4 point lead, so it's no wonder that Pro-EU MPs are planning a campaign of guerrilla warfare.

And MP's wonder why everyone despises them...

More and more papers are running the story that MPs would try and keep Britain in, even if we voted to leave. Well, if it ever came to that, I'd stay out of London this June - we could end up witnessing the House of Commons being stormed by the British Public.