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No, Brexit doesn't mean that. There is no state called the EU to which anyone could swear allegiance. You seem to be fundamentally confused about the nature of the EU and the significance of EU citizenship.
Manchu wrote: No, Brexit doesn't mean that. There is no state called the EU to which anyone could swear allegiance. You seem to be fundamentally confused about the nature of the EU and the significance of EU citizenship.
Not yet but that is what it is supposed to become. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that either, just it is not good for Britain.
So its not a state, but you'll treat it as a foreign power and gleefully call anyone who supports it, and Britain's part within it,, as a traitor.
...And following that logic, as we're currently part of the EU, and pro leavers are currently traitors then? Or do you see the pros as the head of some great revolution?
With the EU, possibly, becoming a state like power in the future, anyone who supports it in the mean time will be treated as the members of a foreign power to you. ..Regardless of this being merely a possibility at present.
Manchu wrote: Could you cite some EU declaration of intent to morph into a single nation state?
If anything that is a speculation by the posters part.
I have yet to see them even think about doing it. Though the idea of a military is a closer idea to one. I don't know if we will see it ever morph into a single entity like the US.
They want the countries to keep their identities, it is kind of the point of the EU is to harbor a trade argeement and protect one another.
It is similar to the UN, just more of a governing body that is more active in its role, unlike the UN. They make regulations that best fit the countries overall and it goes by a democratic vote by all the states, and even normal citizens have a say in the EU.
It ain't the big brother in the sky. That a lot of people are afraid of. (Personally they aren't even that scary)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 05:30:20
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
I'm my mind, this illustrates the intent of the EU to try and centralise the running of its member states. They want a combined military, they want a combined economy that is more than just shared currency, and all of this comes with comparatively little say in the matter from anyone who wants to stay in. The report already states that various parts of the EMU will be mandatory to adopt, so there's no negotiation--something which seems to be a running theme in the EU.
I'm incredibly wary of handing them such things in their current state, and I personally believe they have no business having that level of control without seriously reforming the way that they are accountable to various nations. To me, they're acting in a way that benefits them, not the individual nations, and seem to be acting as though they wish they were leading the entire bloc not just on a political-economic level, but on a general governmental level.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 06:09:53
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
@ skullhammer. Flip sake and there was me and the wife heading down to our end of the world bunker this morning. That's 100000 tins of baked beans bought for nothing!
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Knockagh wrote: @ skullhammer. Flip sake and there was me and the wife heading down to our end of the world bunker this morning. That's 100000 tins of baked beans bought for nothing!
I wouldn't want to be stuck in a bunker after eating 1 tin of baked beans, never mind 100,000!
I'd rather take my chances on the surface against the mutants and zombies
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
That petition that is flying around for the government to do a second referendum based on a minor win for less than 75% voter turnout has almost reached 1m signatures.
Any of you guys think the government will consider it? What if I change the question to seriously consider?
Vote has happened, time to grit the teeth and get on with it.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Why does a petition of 1 million unnamed people (they could even be abroad) trump the 17 million registered voters in the referendum. It's undemocratic to keep calling referenda until you get the result you want.
Skullhammer wrote: A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.
If you are going to steal something from Facebook at least reference it.
As for the substance of that quote lets see what happens in 3 years shall we? That's when the real consequences will begin.
Howard A Treesong wrote: Why does a petition of 1 million unnamed people (they could even be abroad) trump the 17 million registered voters in the referendum. It's undemocratic to keep calling referenda until you get the result you want.
Because Democracy only works if you agree with it.
This whole thing, campaign promises and result aside, has been a show of Democracy working perfectly. A fair vote was held, the voting majority got the win, and even the MP's who vehemently objected to Brexit have made statements saying that they accept the result. George Osborne, for example, avoided Friday's politicking entirely, and just got to work on financial planning. I may not be particularly fond of the guy, but he has integrity.
Skullhammer wrote: A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.
If you are going to steal something from Facebook at least reference it.
As for the substance of that quote lets see what happens in 3 years shall we? That's when the real consequences will begin.
Exactomundo. We cannot know for sure what the true fallout of this is until a full financial year after the negotiations are complete.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frozocrone wrote: That petition that is flying around for the government to do a second referendum based on a minor win for less than 75% voter turnout has almost reached 1m signatures.
Any of you guys think the government will consider it? What if I change the question to seriously consider?
To be fair to the petition, it is calling for a rule that allows a second referendum after an initial one fails to get a 60% or higher win with less than a 75% turnout. Kinda makes some sense, but it does rather devalue the point of a referendum. The government could actually implement the petition's suggestion without calling a second EU referendum.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/25 10:49:59
While democracy was and still is the best political creation ever, this is the major flaw it bears along...
I've seen that XD. There was another video of her talking about Euro 2016 - and she wanted England to win it because Lampard was on (he's not). Went on to say that if England don't win, then Argentina will probably win it, because they've got Ronaldo.
In times as confusing as these, it's important not to forget the laughter.
Howard A Treesong wrote: Why does a petition of 1 million unnamed people (they could even be abroad) trump the 17 million registered voters in the referendum. It's undemocratic to keep calling referenda until you get the result you want.
Actually the petition is neutral in this regards. If the results had been vice versa then this petition would still apply. It is quite pertinent to ask why a decision that will affect 10's millions of people should be forced down a route by what in effect is a tiny majority. In essence the answer we got from the referendum is the country does not know which is the best route to take. A second referendum will allow people to obtain more facts, more information about the pro's and cons of Europe and not be limited by 40 days of vitriol and clichés (on both sides). It's the reason why we vote for more than one person in parliament so different voices (which may be from a small community but nevertheless can change the world we live in for the better) can be heard. That you have a petition signed by 1.2m within two days of the vote shows just how passionate people are about this subject (its almost certainly higher than any other petition set up).
Realistically decisions of this scale should be made by parliament made of MPs voted in by proportional representation rather than first past the post (but that is another debate).
Oh and for those that would like to sign the petition it is here:-
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Howard A Treesong wrote: Why does a petition of 1 million unnamed people (they could even be abroad) trump the 17 million registered voters in the referendum. It's undemocratic to keep calling referenda until you get the result you want.
Actually the petition is neutral in this regards. If the results had been vice versa then this petition would still apply. It is quite pertinent to ask why a decision that will affect 10's millions of people should be forced down a route by what in effect is a tiny majority. In essence the answer we got from the referendum is the country does not know which is the best route to take. A second referendum will allow people to obtain more facts, more information about the pro's and cons of Europe and not be limited by 40 days of vitriol and clichés (on both sides). It's the reason why we vote for more than one person in parliament so different voices (which may be from a small community but nevertheless can change the world we live in for the better) can be heard. That you have a petition signed by 1.2m within two days of the vote shows just how passionate people are about this subject (its almost certainly higher than any other petition set up).
Realistically decisions of this scale should be made by parliament made of MPs voted in by proportional representation rather than first past the post (but that is another debate).
Oh and for those that would like to sign the petition it is here:-
Alright then. By that logic, I demand a by-election for my constituency. Nevermind the fact that I voted against my Labour MP and lost, we should have a second election so we can vote again "with more facts and information". Re-running referendums and elections simply because one side doesn't like the fact that it lost devalues the very idea of democracy and will ultimately be its downfall. Once you set a precedent, it will be used against you in future one day to overturn a decision that you won.
What if we do hold a 2nd referendum in a years time, and the Remain vote wins...but then the EU not only turns around and outright rejects any future reforms, but they also manage to force the Euro, an EU army and further European integration on us? Should we then hold a third referendum? After all, we'll have had more facts and information after the 2nd referendum, because the EU will have shown its true colours.
The petition itself might be neutral and it might have been started before the referendum, but the people signing it are not neutral. It only skyrocketed in popularity after the result was Leave. It was something like 50,000 before the referendum IIRC. Now its one million.
Clearly this a case of sore losers trying to overturn a fair vote that did not go their way.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/25 11:39:35
Why would a petition - one likely signed by many people who already voted remain - over rule a referendum that had a majority of over a 1.2 million people?
Sounds like sour grapes.
It's completely undemocratic to hold another referendum, not to mention a giant waste of taxpayers money.
When you say a mere 4% difference, it makes it sound a lot smaller than the actual 1.2 million people more that disagree with your side of it.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Crazyterran wrote: Why would a petition - one likely signed by many people who already voted remain - over rule a referendum that had a majority of over a 1.2 million people?
Sounds like sour grapes.
It's completely undemocratic to hold another referendum, not to mention a giant waste of taxpayers money.
When you say a mere 4% difference, it makes it sound a lot smaller than the actual 1.2 million people more that disagree with your side of it.
Well Europe has a history of holding referendum until they get the result those in power want - however I think that it has already gone to far to be overturned.
Could be wrong.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
EAT - SLEEP - FARM - REPEAT 
