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Hi all,

I was wondering, who has played 30k vs 40k? How did you find it? Was it a close game or did it seam unbalanced in favour of either side?

I'm asking because I played my first game using my 30k army (world eaters) tonight vs my friend's 40k army of speed-freak orks. It seemed so unbalanced in my favour that he doesn't want to play against my 30k army again. I tabled him by the end of turn 3 and only lost 15-20 marines myself.

Anyone had a similar experience? How did you balance it?

Thanks, Ed

I've had it go both ways, I've leveled 40k armies and I've lost a 40k armies about 2 weeks ago I actually ended up losing to Tyranids by a single point.

The issue is 30k can have a lot of weapons that rip right through well Armor sings like ork and guard Tyranids too if you're not paying attention.

I would be interested to see what list you used against him however

from what I've seen (many MANY games) It's generally 55/45 in favor of 40k. Super close, but generally 40k lists will have the upper hand at most point levels.

I've only played at up to 1500 points and with a somewhat limited model selection built from 1 Calth set) and on the whole, while I have only actually won one game of 5 thus far, none of them have been absolute pastings. 3 of the 5 have come down to one or two VPs in it on the last turn, so its not like I'm getting wiped off the board or doing the same to my opponent. Obviously that's quite a small sample size, and there are a lot of variables (opponent skill, army build, terrain, luck of the dice), but I've not found it to be an issue either way so far.

40k wins if their competative 7.5. Ive faced BA a few times at 3k, and the onky reason I didnt lose two of the three was because we had to end early. That, and 5+ contemptor save.

I've done it a couple of times. Worked out that if the 40k army (unless it's top tier and deliberately competitive) takes an extra 15% in points then it balances pretty well.

 JamesY wrote:
I've done it a couple of times. Worked out that if the 40k army (unless it's top tier and deliberately competitive) takes an extra 15% in points then it balances pretty well.

what? So long as both sides use the age of darkness force org (instead of CAD, formations still allowed) the game usually works IN FAVOR of 40k. at MOST you do the thing that FW recommended, and let the 40k player have the ability to double max squad size.

I play against nothing but 40k armies. I would say in the last ten games I won half using 30K World Eaters.

I have played alot of 30k vs. 40k myself. My experience is that in 30k vs. 40k it leans abit towords 40k in power levels.

Orks and Tyranids have a hard time fighting the legions because in all honesty the anti-hoard weapons are very undercosted in the legion list. This is because they were costed for the "30k meta", were you are shooting at 20 man squads of +3 armour. Generally the orks and nids are kinda weaker armies in 40k ATM, so that dosen't help matters much.

On the Flip Side, Tau can table a legion army prety easily, and The Blood Angle Formation were all the units get fear will cut threw a legion list handily. In general their are quite a few formations in 40k that can give you a huge edge over the legion list.

I've also had a realy close game last weekend ageist a Mechanized Imperial Guard Army, and we both walked away very satisfied with how the game went.

So generally I don't realy consider the legion list any more unbalenced then anything already in 40k.

I'm undefeated with my daemons against 30K armies because Slaanesh units with psyker and grimoire support are pretty much tailor-made to chew through MEQ armies. A 120 point seeker squad will wipe out an entire 20-man Marine blob in a single turn on average.

I think any horde army is going to have its work cut out for it against 30K armies though because, as mentioned above, 30K anti-horde weapons are extremely cheap due to them being balanced against 3+ save hordes.

Thank you all for your input. I think next time I play him, if he wants to play my 30k again, I'll let him use more points and see how it goes.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
I would be interested to see what list you used against him however

The list I used is this:

Kharn + Gorechild

Command Squad + 2 extra guys + 2 power axes + power sword + 2 chain axes

apothecary + power sword + artificer armour (x4)

Contemptor dread + Kheres + havoc launcher + heavy flamer

Tac squad + 5 guys + Vexilla + extra CC weapons (chain axes) + power fist + artificer armour (x3)

Predator + lascannon sponsons

Whirlwind scorpius

Vindicator + laser destroyer array

Comes to 2,000 points

 Brennonjw wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
I've done it a couple of times. Worked out that if the 40k army (unless it's top tier and deliberately competitive) takes an extra 15% in points then it balances pretty well.

what? So long as both sides use the age of darkness force org (instead of CAD, formations still allowed) the game usually works IN FAVOR of 40k. at MOST you do the thing that FW recommended, and let the 40k player have the ability to double max squad size.

We haven't tried using those compromises in fairness, just used the 40k codex as is. Few of my gaming group are really competitive, in that we don't bring fully optimised lists to games unless one is practicing for a tourni. The 15% does seem to work, although haven't tried it with a 7.5 codex yet.

I have found it to be pretty balanced but the 40k side can have the advantage with the use of formations. Checkout wintersSEO on youtube he has plenty of 30k vs 40k batreps.

We play 30 vs 40k a fair bit, we have trouble against eldar, tau and crons, but who doesn't, on the whole as long as we limit the more abusive formations it's a pretty even game, with 40k haveing a slight edge.

 Lockark wrote:

Orks and Tyranids have a hard time fighting the legions because in all honesty the anti-hoard weapons are very undercosted in the legion list. This is because they were costed for the "30k meta", were you are shooting at 20 man squads of +3 armour.

Now, see, this bugs me every time I see someone bring this up. 30K anti-horde weapons really don't cost any more or less than 40K anti-horde weapons. But I don't see people complaining about the costs of 40K anti-horde weaponry. Yes, a squad full of volkite is scary good against a mob of orks or gaunts. But so is a multiple-flamer-toting unit of 40K marines in a drop pod.

I've played my 30K against 40K quite a bit, both my EC and Mechanicum. My record is, shall we say, less than impressive at somewhere around 2-8. Admittedly, so far, I've been playing it that I use the Age of Darkness army construction and scoring rules, and they use the 40K army construction and scoring rules. So, yes, that admittedly puts me at a disadvantage, but it does help to ease people into the idea of playing against 30K (it's hard enough sometimes getting people to play against Forgeworld stuiff, imagine how much harder it can be if you tell them "I get to use all my toys, but you can't use your formations and such").

I've played against 30k IWs with my 40k Alpha Legion, and I echo the sentiments here - I lost both. However, 30k lists are overall more balanced. They'll probably lose to Eldar, SMs, Tau, and Necrons, but against everything else they hold their own. I wouldn't recommend changing the points.

It works best when both sides make use of the Battles in the Age of Darkness ruleset, so no formations, no unbound and whatnot.

Depends on the opponents army. We usually play at the 2500 point which is fairly balanced between both 40k and 30k. In general against marines I typically will tear them apart, horde armies the same. Actually have not faced Tau but have lost to DE in a maelstrom game. Eldar will put up a really good fight and I have gotten lucky with my army selection against them(I rarely field the same army list twice) and having a drop podded flamer support squad(I only brought them because they were the cheapest squad for an extra pod) wipe out entire scat-bike squads w/farseer helped tremendously.

All in all its fairly even but there are some bad matchups that go both ways.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

Orks and Tyranids have a hard time fighting the legions because in all honesty the anti-hoard weapons are very undercosted in the legion list. This is because they were costed for the "30k meta", were you are shooting at 20 man squads of +3 armour.

Now, see, this bugs me every time I see someone bring this up. 30K anti-horde weapons really don't cost any more or less than 40K anti-horde weapons. But I don't see people complaining about the costs of 40K anti-horde weaponry. Yes, a squad full of volkite is scary good against a mob of orks or gaunts. But so is a multiple-flamer-toting unit of 40K marines in a drop pod.

I've played my 30K against 40K quite a bit, both my EC and Mechanicum. My record is, shall we say, less than impressive at somewhere around 2-8. Admittedly, so far, I've been playing it that I use the Age of Darkness army construction and scoring rules, and they use the 40K army construction and scoring rules. So, yes, that admittedly puts me at a disadvantage, but it does help to ease people into the idea of playing against 30K (it's hard enough sometimes getting people to play against Forgeworld stuiff, imagine how much harder it can be if you tell them "I get to use all my toys, but you can't use your formations and such").

20 man Tac Squads with Wrath of the Legion are more or less were alot of the legion's cheap anti-hoard fire-power comes from. If your skipping them for stuff like Vet Squad troops then I guess that would take out a huge chunk of the anti-hoard firepower the legion can put out.

Thinking about it, maby it's better to say that the legion has a realy high potential for getting anti-hoard weapons into a single list. Ontop of the amazing unit that is how Tac Squad we have stuff like the whirldwind Scorpius, the medusa, Rapier Thud Guns, ect. Alot of these units well good at killing hoards of dudes, can also pull double duty and are effective at hitting other targets as well.

As a EC player, your legion's rules don't realy favour these sort of units, so it makes sence why you have more trouble with hoard armies. Compared to me as a Iron Warrior Player.


also the mechanicum dosen't have alot in regards to hoard killing. They just have alot of anti MEQ and TEQ stuff. As a Iron Warrior player I take them more for their high toughness robots and cheap fearless objective sitters.

They really aren't meant to mix. They are "balanced" against other 30k army lists. If you play against 40k armies, if either side gets butt-hurt about the pounding they get, you're probably doing it wrong.

I wound't mix the two, personally. However, to each their own.

 kronk wrote:
They really aren't meant to mix. They are "balanced" against other 30k army lists. If you play against 40k armies, if either side gets butt-hurt about the pounding they get, you're probably doing it wrong.

I wound't mix the two, personally. However, to each their own.

40k isn't balanced at the best of times, it's the reason I love 30k gameing. Sadly if I was to take that stance I bassicly would only get to play a game once a year.


Most 40k armies are alot more powerfull then anything I can put down for 30k more times then not. Unless I was to build my army in 40k FoC and take a lord of war like how they can. But then I'm a power gamer and a cheeser for doing that. Because FW. Ideally I would rather play just 30k vs 30k, but you got to take what you can get.

 kronk wrote:
They really aren't meant to mix. They are "balanced" against other 30k army lists. If you play against 40k armies, if either side gets butt-hurt about the pounding they get, you're probably doing it wrong.

I wound't mix the two, personally. However, to each their own.

I kinda dissagree. Yeah, 30k is better internally balanced, but it's really fun to play great crusade games: Orks, Eldar, Necrons (some), and Nids all fit this theme verry well, and the matches tend to be fairly even in these cases, oftentimes in favor of the 40k list.

I've had mixed results in legion vs. nid games. unless they are useing alot of MC's, I tended to break the nid armies fairly quickly. Eldar armies build in Age of Darkness FoC are super fun to play agiest, few people want to do it tho because it's to fair lol

2k and higher, 30k will start to win most times.

Under 2k 30k will lose most times unless a good player is running them.


I do enjoy playing games at 1250-1500 against 40k-ers. Keeps them from running craziness and I have to be very careful with my unit selection then.

I played my 40k Ad-Mech War Convo against 30k Iron Warriors with Perturabo (he told me to take the War Convo as he thought I would need it to compete with the Primarch). 2000 pts.

The game was a bit one-sided in my Ad-Mech's favor. One thing that is the bane of 30k legion armies I feel is Grav. He had a 20 man blob and Perturabo sitting in a Spartan. Sadly for him, my grav immobilized it turn 1, so they were left footslogging. Thanks to that Perturabo didn't see too much combat and the rest of the game went strongly in my favor.

Played a 2v2 earlier this week. My harequins and a friends 40k space wolves vs a 30k deathguard and salamander army. It was sadly a one sided game, as it seems that the lack of ATSKNF really screws them over against harlequins in assault, as I ended up sweeping three of their maxed out squads on the second turn

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
it seems that the lack of ATSKNF really screws them over against harlequins in assault,

Yep, and this is the biggest issue with 30K vs 40K that people always seems to miss.

Everyone thinks that 30K has an advantage over 40K but frankly it's the opposite.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
it seems that the lack of ATSKNF really screws them over against harlequins in assault,

Yep, and this is the biggest issue with 30K vs 40K that people always seems to miss.

Everyone thinks that 30K has an advantage over 40K but frankly it's the opposite.

b-b-but Forgeworld is OP!

The best part of 30K is mostly NO pysphic phase at all.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
The best part of 30K is mostly NO pysphic phase at all.

daemons
word bearers
thousand sons