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I'm formulating some possible 1850 SM lists using the gladius strike force detachment. From all tr lists I've seen here, pretty much everyone takes assault squads and devestator squads. However, I was under the impression that bikers and centurion devestators are better options that the assault squads and devestator squads. I'm guessing most are taking assault and devestator squads for the free transports, but do free DTs really make assault and devestator squads worth taking over bikes or centurion devestators?

Yes. Yes they do.


It's two extra units to score with, more survivable, and cheaper pointswise. You are already pretty stuffed for points once you get the Tacs/Devs Grav Cannons, the Command Squads in pods and Dreads in pods...

It, depends. But generally yes devs are better options I run white scars with two sqauds. Both with 2 grav. They are scouted to a midboard position. And stay there. 24 inches covers alot

Ehh...Personally I think you can make bikes work in place of the assualt marines. It allows you to utilize the 2 HQ choices you already have to make a mini bike star. So in my mind you could make use of the 160 points of characters you are forced to take at the cost of another single razorback which is only 40 points - so here I see a net gain. Devs are always better than the centurions in this formation because you wont be able to get the cents into a drop pod. You don't even have to give the devs a heavy weapon - though I would consider taking a rhino instead of a razor on the devs and putting 2 grav cannons in the squad.

There are also differences in if you are just building a demi-co list, or going full company.

The full company list gets it’s power from saturation. It’s not there to kill you, it just has more ObSec hulls and bodies then you have time to deal with. And the more you pile on, the more likely you will still be sitting pretty on all the objectives for the whole game. If you have one or two units that aren’t just bare-bones MEQ, they are going to be focus fired down first. Full company lists also tend to be tight on points, and things like dev cents require a lot to field.

Grav cents, while powerful, are nor good solo. You could add a drop pod, but that would require a CAD to get. A beefy HQ to tank wounds, or a librarian to port around also work, but then you are building a death star, which is not playing to the strengths of the full company. Plus, you don’t have the points to make it work.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh...Personally I think you can make bikes work in place of the assualt marines. It allows you to utilize the 2 HQ choices you already have to make a mini bike star. So in my mind you could make use of the 160 points of characters you are forced to take at the cost of another single razorback which is only 40 points - so here I see a net gain. Devs are always better than the centurions in this formation because you wont be able to get the cents into a drop pod. You don't even have to give the devs a heavy weapon - though I would consider taking a rhino instead of a razor on the devs and putting 2 grav cannons in the squad.

You'd still be better off taking only 1 Bike squad for the 2x Grav + Combi-Grav, and sticking to a min sized Assault squad w/2x Flamers in a Drop Pod.

That gives you a really cheap throw away unit that can clean out any basic infantry. Also never forget to take your Deathwind launchers when going for a Pod... They can kill more than most will give them credit for, just like dual 5-man Flamer Assault Squads can.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh...Personally I think you can make bikes work in place of the assualt marines. It allows you to utilize the 2 HQ choices you already have to make a mini bike star. So in my mind you could make use of the 160 points of characters you are forced to take at the cost of another single razorback which is only 40 points - so here I see a net gain. Devs are always better than the centurions in this formation because you wont be able to get the cents into a drop pod. You don't even have to give the devs a heavy weapon - though I would consider taking a rhino instead of a razor on the devs and putting 2 grav cannons in the squad.

You'd still be better off taking only 1 Bike squad for the 2x Grav + Combi-Grav, and sticking to a min sized Assault squad w/2x Flamers in a Drop Pod.

That gives you a really cheap throw away unit that can clean out any basic infantry. Also never forget to take your Deathwind launchers when going for a Pod... They can kill more than most will give them credit for, just like dual 5-man Flamer Assault Squads can.

Yeah I meant just 1 bike squad. Stick your two HQ in there with combi gravs and a smash capatin - probably got enough razor backs to completely hide them moving up the field too.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh...Personally I think you can make bikes work in place of the assualt marines. It allows you to utilize the 2 HQ choices you already have to make a mini bike star. So in my mind you could make use of the 160 points of characters you are forced to take at the cost of another single razorback which is only 40 points - so here I see a net gain. Devs are always better than the centurions in this formation because you wont be able to get the cents into a drop pod. You don't even have to give the devs a heavy weapon - though I would consider taking a rhino instead of a razor on the devs and putting 2 grav cannons in the squad.

You'd still be better off taking only 1 Bike squad for the 2x Grav + Combi-Grav, and sticking to a min sized Assault squad w/2x Flamers in a Drop Pod.

That gives you a really cheap throw away unit that can clean out any basic infantry. Also never forget to take your Deathwind launchers when going for a Pod... They can kill more than most will give them credit for, just like dual 5-man Flamer Assault Squads can.

Yeah I meant just 1 bike squad. Stick your two HQ in there with combi gravs and a smash capatin - probably got enough razor backs to completely hide them moving up the field too.

Or even just take your 'Bike Squad', through your Command Squad option, which then gives more Grav guns, plus access to Storm shields & FnP for boosting the power of your HQ's.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh...Personally I think you can make bikes work in place of the assualt marines. It allows you to utilize the 2 HQ choices you already have to make a mini bike star. So in my mind you could make use of the 160 points of characters you are forced to take at the cost of another single razorback which is only 40 points - so here I see a net gain. Devs are always better than the centurions in this formation because you wont be able to get the cents into a drop pod. You don't even have to give the devs a heavy weapon - though I would consider taking a rhino instead of a razor on the devs and putting 2 grav cannons in the squad.

You'd still be better off taking only 1 Bike squad for the 2x Grav + Combi-Grav, and sticking to a min sized Assault squad w/2x Flamers in a Drop Pod.

That gives you a really cheap throw away unit that can clean out any basic infantry. Also never forget to take your Deathwind launchers when going for a Pod... They can kill more than most will give them credit for, just like dual 5-man Flamer Assault Squads can.

Yeah I meant just 1 bike squad. Stick your two HQ in there with combi gravs and a smash capatin - probably got enough razor backs to completely hide them moving up the field too.

Or even just take your 'Bike Squad', through your Command Squad option, which then gives more Grav guns, plus access to Storm shields & FnP for boosting the power of your HQ's.

Good point - but that is 5 bikes rather than 3. I think both are good options - really depends on what kinda points you got. I do think that making use of those champions makes more sense then sticking them in razors and never using them. I've actually used the command squad option with gladius in an 1850 and it did pretty well. Took a lot of shots off the razors.

As a Chaos player, I can only dream of what it's like having actual options... Perhaps some day.

The bike command squad gets a free razorback too, so even better in that regard.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
The bike command squad gets a free razorback too, so even better in that regard.

Does it? can you still take a dedicated transport when you are mouted on bikes? This is totally what every gladius should do in this case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
As a Chaos player, I can only dream of what it's like having actual options... Perhaps some day.

don't you play GK too? That's depressing.

I could have sworn a unit had to start in a dedicated transport if taken. I need to reread the transport section apparently.

Looking at the verbiage on the command squad, it doesn’t mention anything along the lines of “If not on bikes”. Just the option to take them.

Compared to Assault marines, where it does say “If the squad does not take jump packs...”

I don’t think there is any requirement about being able to fit into your DT.

RAW I think it’s fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:
I could have sworn a unit had to start in a dedicated transport if taken. I need to reread the transport section apparently.

Only the unit that bought the DT may start inside. (plus ICs) Not must.

Don't forget, Grav-Devs in drop pods, along with the Devastator protocols, make for a nasty alpha strike.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Don't forget, Grav-Devs in drop pods, along with the Devastator protocols, make for a nasty alpha strike.

While true, requires a CAD outside of the Gladius. You can’t start the game in someone else’s DT, and there isn’t a spot in the formation to take a loose pod.

^That is a big reason why gladius is held back - it can't take the best options in the codex.

 Nevelon wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Don't forget, Grav-Devs in drop pods, along with the Devastator protocols, make for a nasty alpha strike.

While true, requires a CAD outside of the Gladius. You can’t start the game in someone else’s DT, and there isn’t a spot in the formation to take a loose pod.

Devastators can take drop pods standard. Maybe you thought I meant Grav-Cents

 Nevelon wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Don't forget, Grav-Devs in drop pods, along with the Devastator protocols, make for a nasty alpha strike.

While true, requires a CAD outside of the Gladius. You can’t start the game in someone else’s DT, and there isn’t a spot in the formation to take a loose pod.

I think he's referring to 5 Devs w/2x Grav Cannon in a Pod using the Devastator Doctrine. Add on a Combi-Grav to the Sergeant, and suddenly you have 8 Grav shots re-rolling all to-hit rolls and 6 of them re-rolling to-wound rolls as well.
That's good enough to remove most MC's, outside of a buffed Riptide or Wraithknight.

Still not exactly how I'd use Grav Devs in a GSF to be honest, as being that close will result in them getting gunned down too quickly... But if you have enough other stuff going into that same Alpha Strike wave, it can be pretty, well, devastating!

Edit: ninja'd!

 Xenomancers wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
As a Chaos player, I can only dream of what it's like having actual options... Perhaps some day.

don't you play GK too? That's depressing.

I have 15 Terms + 30 PA GK's in boxes... (and various piles of other Marine bitz to mix-and-match in) Didn't want to build them under the 5th ed codex as it would just elicit cries of being a WaaC's monkey.

The LGS has house ruled that Daemons don't get their inherent bonus when using any Malefic powers. And I'm sure the new Tzeentch Warpflame Host formation will simply end up banned, because of S7 Witchfire & basic S5 template/S10 shooting spam.
And that's on top of the outright banning of the Grimoire in any event they run! (pick-up games require opponent's consent to use it)

Forgeworld is also banned entirely, because of past issues, so IA13 help is also out the window.

Luckily, that store looks like it's soon to go belly up because its become such a toxic place to game, and good riddance! Unfortunately, it means the only other store to play at is the local GW, which is about an hour and half's walk for me. >.<

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Don't forget, Grav-Devs in drop pods, along with the Devastator protocols, make for a nasty alpha strike.

While true, requires a CAD outside of the Gladius. You can’t start the game in someone else’s DT, and there isn’t a spot in the formation to take a loose pod.

Devastators can take drop pods standard. Maybe you thought I meant Grav-Cents

I did, my apologies.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Don't forget, Grav-Devs in drop pods, along with the Devastator protocols, make for a nasty alpha strike.

While true, requires a CAD outside of the Gladius. You can’t start the game in someone else’s DT, and there isn’t a spot in the formation to take a loose pod.

I think he's referring to 5 Devs w/2x Grav Cannon in a Pod using the Devastator Doctrine. Add on a Combi-Grav to the Sergeant, and suddenly you have 8 Grav shots re-rolling all to-hit rolls and 6 of them re-rolling to-wound rolls as well.
That's good enough to remove most MC's, outside of a buffed Riptide or Wraithknight.

Still not exactly how I'd use Grav Devs in a GSF to be honest, as being that close will result in them getting gunned down too quickly... But if you have enough other stuff going into that same Alpha Strike wave, it can be pretty, well, devastating!

Edit: ninja'd!

 Xenomancers wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
As a Chaos player, I can only dream of what it's like having actual options... Perhaps some day.

don't you play GK too? That's depressing.

I have 15 Terms + 30 PA GK's in boxes... (and various piles of other Marine bitz to mix-and-match in) Didn't want to build them under the 5th ed codex as it would just elicit cries of being a WaaC's monkey.

The LGS has house ruled that Daemons don't get their inherent bonus when using any Malefic powers. And I'm sure the new Tzeentch Warpflame Host formation will simply end up banned, because of S7 Witchfire & basic S5 template/S10 shooting spam.
And that's on top of the outright banning of the Grimoire in any event they run! (pick-up games require opponent's consent to use it)

Forgeworld is also banned entirely, because of past issues, so IA13 help is also out the window.

Luckily, that store looks like it's soon to go belly up because its become such a toxic place to game, and good riddance! Unfortunately, it means the only other store to play at is the local GW, which is about an hour and half's walk for me. >.<

Sorry to hear it. I am so lucky to have a good gaming group. We all play semi competitive 2v2's with random team selection - makes for some real fun games. It's the only way I am able to paly my GK without getting stomped.

I've had decent results with a 5 man dev squad with two grav cannons in a Rhino. It's basically a denial unit that can quickly move around if it needs to.