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Hi all,

I am a relatively fresh space marine player but have a handful of games under my belt.

On the matter of Codex SM, I would like to here the general consensus on what works and

what doesn't work, as I am frequently pondering this while writing up army lists. Thanks in advance!

IMHO;

Works;
-Grav (usually Dev Centurions in a pod)
-Gladius (Free spammable ObSec)
-Skyhammer (Relentless grav)
-1st Co. (combis and synergy with shriek and conclave)
-10th Co. (Cheap gladius Aux.)
-Scouts (Cheap min troops/cover camping snipers/fast objective grabbers in a storm)
-Pods (usually in gladius)
-Librarians
-Librarius Conclave
-Bikes as troops
-Smashface
-White scars, ultras, fists chapter tactics.

What doesn't work
-Non Ironclad Dreads
-Non skyhammer ASM
-Non skyhammer devastators
-Non gladius tacticals
-Terminators
-Non Gladius captain/chaplain
-Stormravens

Anything not listed can work the lower end of the competative scale or in conjunction with the good stuff (spamming free obsec transports), but it depends heavily on how you build you list. You can make ok stuff good and bad stuff OK, but you can also make good stuff bad if you do it wrong.

Keep in mind, gladius is rarely going to be good if you're playing nothing but kill points and will have an artifically boosted outcome if you're playing ITC where ObSec MSU matters more than anything else.

It's also going to depend on who your regular opponents are and what they're taking. Worsat comes to worst, post up in the army lists forum with what sort of list you want to make, what you've got available and someone should be able to point you in the right direction.

In addition to the list above, I would add:
Thunderfire Cannons
Storm Talons
Supression Force (solid Auxiliary for a Gladius)
Bike Command Squad

I'm a dissenter on Scouts and Smashface. The scouts unlock Land speeder storms, but they themselves are pretty trash. Smashface is nigh unkillable but has pretty low damage output for something that expensive.

I'm a fan of Raptor Wing formation (Iron Firsts for IWND) allied with a White Scars bike list. The AA is nice and free USR are free. *thumbs up*

Speaking of the Raptor Wing... raven guard is very very good when you us their special Detachment, the Talon Strike force.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Speaking of the Raptor Wing... raven guard is very very good when you us their special Detachment, the Talon Strike force.

Smooth transition! But I agree, those tricksy Turn1 assaults can be very good. It's an anti meta - meta list! Won a recent local tourney around my neck of the woods. I like seeing winning lists mix it up!

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Speaking of the Raptor Wing... raven guard is very very good when you us their special Detachment, the Talon Strike force.

Meh, Talon Strike force lacks OBSec so they are a fair bit worse than gladius even without free transports.

Also, IH does not necessarily give IWND to vehicles (except dreads) since they lack chapter tactics.

The IWND is an ongoing debate only because the Chapter Tactic itself gives vehicles IWND. All the other chapter tactics don't specifically say in the CT section whether they have it or not. Play it how you will, my local areas and ITC allow it, but if someone is playing with the Chapter Tactic, you follow their chapter tactics. The vehicles themselves don't have CT, but the CT that you are using gives you access to IWND. YMDC, but I know my answer to that one!

Talon Strike force does have ObSec in regards to the Battle Demi-Company you use to gain the benefits from it. The Auxiliary force would not have ObSec. The Aux used in my local meta was the Shadowstrike Kill Team, which does not have Obsec, is the meat of the army. Also the Chaplain with Jetpack that joins one of the squads has obsec.

It's a pretty neat combo. There will be armies that beat it, don't get me wrong, but it definitely stomps some lists to the ground.

I'm gonna disagree on Stormravens not working: They can and do work decently, as part of the Stormwing formation. Taken that way, target saturation forces an opponent to decide what they want to shoot down. However, it's expensive, and if you're not using the 'raven's transport capacity, you're wasting points, while if you are, you're gambling. It can work, but use with care. Stormravens still scare people, and for that reason, draw tons of fire.

Saythings wrote:
The IWND is an ongoing debate only because the Chapter Tactic itself gives vehicles IWND.

The blurb explaining how CT works is pretty clear - a model only benefits from a CT if it has the CT rule. Vehicles except dreads don't have it, ergo they don't get it. Yes it was kind off a dick move (or really poor rules writing) on the part of GW, but there's not much to be discussed. The 6th ed IH CT specifically said all IH vehicles had IWND even though they don't have the CT rule; they took that part out in the 7th ed book, which should be pretty indicative that this was an intentional move to restrict IWND to dreads.

jade_angel wrote:
I'm gonna disagree on Stormravens not working: They can and do work decently, as part of the Stormwing formation. Taken that way, target saturation forces an opponent to decide what they want to shoot down. However, it's expensive, and if you're not using the 'raven's transport capacity, you're wasting points, while if you are, you're gambling. It can work, but use with care. Stormravens still scare people, and for that reason, draw tons of fire.

I'd argue with the addition of the Raptor Wing that the Storm Raven isn't really worth taking, since you get better Anti-Air out of a Anti-Air Defense Force/Raptor Wing.

Legion Of The Damned are pretty solid, ignore cover weapons and reliable deep strike. I run them as 5 legionnaires, Combi- Grav, Meltagun & Muilti-Melta.

Forgeworld have some nice toys as well. I use the Forgeworld chapter tactic, Raptors and their special character Lias Issodon. Pretty much a baller.

 Drasius wrote:
IMHO;

Works;
-Grav (usually Dev Centurions in a pod)
-Gladius (Free spammable ObSec)
-Skyhammer (Relentless grav)
-1st Co. (combis and synergy with shriek and conclave)
-10th Co. (Cheap gladius Aux.)
-Scouts (Cheap min troops/cover camping snipers/fast objective grabbers in a storm)
-Pods (usually in gladius)
-Librarians
-Librarius Conclave
-Bikes as troops
-Smashface
-White scars, ultras, fists chapter tactics.

What doesn't work
-Non Ironclad Dreads
-Non skyhammer ASM
-Non skyhammer devastators
-Non gladius tacticals
-Terminators
-Non Gladius captain/chaplain
-Stormravens

Anything not listed can work the lower end of the competative scale or in conjunction with the good stuff (spamming free obsec transports), but it depends heavily on how you build you list. You can make ok stuff good and bad stuff OK, but you can also make good stuff bad if you do it wrong.

Keep in mind, gladius is rarely going to be good if you're playing nothing but kill points and will have an artifically boosted outcome if you're playing ITC where ObSec MSU matters more than anything else.

It's also going to depend on who your regular opponents are and what they're taking. Worsat comes to worst, post up in the army lists forum with what sort of list you want to make, what you've got available and someone should be able to point you in the right direction.

idk thats being unfair to the ravenguard and clan raukkan and crimson fists, and its being unfair to the ven dread they arent awful and if you think the ravenguard are bad you need to fight them man. shadowstrike killteam and the orbital strikeforce are greasy as they come