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Valkyries are fantastic for objective capping. I can tell you that for sure.

Martel732 wrote:
Valkyries are fantastic for objective capping. I can tell you that for sure.

Their damage output is so bad though... Also chimeras help saturate the field with mech.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
You can have psybolts, but not as +1 str. That never made any sense. They need to be anti-psyker rounds and anti-daemon rounds.

+1 str actually makes sense. fluffwise, they should be both +1 str AND ignore invulns. For balance, it can just be +1 str.

+1str also already exists as precedent. Psycannons are assault cannons with psybolts and suspensors. Psybolts give +1str, and suspensors let it move and fire.

And when Grey Knights become better at killing Eldar than anything else we'll all sit here and go...

Huh. 5th edition's back. Guess they made up for the Sins of Ward while us CSM players still get shafted by the Sins of Haines.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Valkyries are fantastic for objective capping. I can tell you that for sure.

Their damage output is so bad though... Also chimeras help saturate the field with mech.

Vs what? Vs infantry it's fine. S4 large blast is not great, but it can do work vs crap that's holding an obj usually. Firewarriors, tac marines, whatever. Multilaser is sweet.

Martel732 wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Valkyries are fantastic for objective capping. I can tell you that for sure.

Their damage output is so bad though... Also chimeras help saturate the field with mech.

Vs what? Vs infantry it's fine. S4 large blast is not great, but it can do work vs crap that's holding an obj usually. Firewarriors, tac marines, whatever. Multilaser is sweet.

Could also grab vendetta instead I suppose with their 2 TL lascannons (they're 10 transport cap still right?) And yeah, multi laser is pretty good compared to most IoM heavy weapons.

I don't like the price jump myself. The Valkyrie is very durable for the price and is quite effective vs its niche targets.

Martel732 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
So you think GKs should suck vs everything except Daemons?

Having to pay extra points for Str5 Stormbolters seems fair when you have no melta or lascannon access outside vehicles nobody wants to take(aside the Stormraven).

Depends. Do you think you've paid off the karma from 5th yet? GK made that edition miserable as soon as they came out.

You act like melta and lascannons are desirable or relevant. How cute. Melta is sometimes, vs SHW or SHV. But lascannons are pure garbage in 7th. Your own Dreadknight demonstrates why.

That karma was paid for by the codex sucking in previous edition. We deserved every once of cheese 5th edition gave us. The balance is paid in full.

Anyway, my point is that GKs simply don't have much in the way of ranged anti-tank. Buffing our bolter and autocannon type weapons a little seems like ample compensation.

On the other hand, name a tank in 7th ed that's actually a problem. I guess the free ones, lol. BA are no better off against that and we have melta coming out our ears.

GK have the original broken MC and massacre almost any list in CC (including mine). They can take a number in the "we get shot to pieces before CC" line of depression. Against GK, I have to run away and pray they don't catch me.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
You can have psybolts, but not as +1 str. That never made any sense. They need to be anti-psyker rounds and anti-daemon rounds.

+1 str actually makes sense. fluffwise, they should be both +1 str AND ignore invulns. For balance, it can just be +1 str.

+1str also already exists as precedent. Psycannons are assault cannons with psybolts and suspensors. Psybolts give +1str, and suspensors let it move and fire.

And when Grey Knights become better at killing Eldar than anything else we'll all sit here and go...

Huh. 5th edition's back. Guess they made up for the Sins of Ward while us CSM players still get shafted by the Sins of Haines.

Well, somebody has to keep Eldar in check.

To keep Eldar in check we do not need to go back to the gakfest that was the 5th ed GK Codex.

I'm sorry. That just isn't the answer.

Martel732 wrote:
On the other hand, name a tank in 7th ed that's actually a problem. I guess the free ones, lol. BA are no better off against that and we have melta coming out our ears.

GK have the original broken MC and massacre almost any list in CC (including mine). They can take a number in the "we get shot to pieces before CC" line of depression. Against GK, I have to run away and pray they don't catch me.

Any tank? The mechanicus ordinatus stuff is pretty nasty.

Is it? I've never heard a single complaint about it.

 Drachnyen wrote:
Nothing beats data analysis.

Here is a great analysis from LVO 2016, its VERY clear who are competitive and who are not.

"...top spots are the domain of Eldar, Space Marine, Necron and Daemon players – all others need not apply, or are at the very least facing a very uphill battle."

http://variancehammer.com/2016/02/19/number-crunching-the-lvo/

Great work by Variancehammer

That is over a year old. It is nowhere near indicative anymore.

There was a newer one from 2017 iirc in this thread.

Martel732 wrote:
Is it? I've never heard a single complaint about it.

The choice is between a 180" range primary weapon 1 10" D AP1 blast w/ machine destroyer (Sagittar), or a beam style weapon (Ulator) that uses a 7" blast as the beam with 72" range, that's S5 vs infantry/bikes/beasts/cav/jetbikes, S8 vs MCs/non tank vehicles, S10 vs tanks, and D vs GMC/SHV/Fortifications, and is AP2. It also has pinning, armorbane, ignores cover, and instant death, and is fired by placing the template in contact with the front arc of the vehicle, and moving it in a straight line away (which means it never targets anything, so it can affect invis units). Both come with 3 volkite culverins (heavy 4 S6 AP5 45" with deflagrate).

Defensively it has 14/13/13 with 14HP and is a SHV obviously, restores one HP on a 6 if it lost a HP on the controlling player's turn, and a modified flare shield that starts as a -3 modifier for shooting attacks (both the D chart and strength) from the front/side arcs (or any side for barrage) but decreases the modifier to a -2 on the 2nd turn, and -1 on the 3rd or later turns, along with armored ceramite, and a 6++.

the Sagittar is 700pt, the Ulator is 1075pt, so expensive but dangerous, and very likely to survive for a few turns.

The balance in these tournaments (ITC, Adepticon) are definitely altered by their rules.

For instance, Adepticon just flat out bans AoD psychic powers. Why not let the underpowered marine factions use them, like BA & GK? It's not like having Electrodisplacement is going to suddenly make BA top tier.

I don't understand why these TOs go through the process of fundamentally changing some rules, while leaving things that are overpowered alone. It seems more like the motivation is to maintain the status quo of current 40k, when you just flat out ban some stuff.

BA do get them now.

Dread knights haven't been broken for years. Quit whining about it.

And its not that dread knights are op, its that most other MCs suck so bad in comparison.

DKs still suck down way more firepower than their points indicate, especially compared to equally costed vehices. T6 2+ is still brutal against most units.

They're ~225 points. They should soak a ton of firepower.

And from my experience they still die to stuff like plasma. Only 4 wounds. I've also lost track of the number of times I've died to a random bolter shot.

They are very good. But they're not even close to OP.

225 pts of my BA don't soak a thing. So forgive me if I'm a bit jealous of the DK.

 Wolfblade wrote:
There was a newer one from 2017 iirc in this thread.

Martel732 wrote:
Is it? I've never heard a single complaint about it.

The choice is between a 180" range primary weapon 1 10" D AP1 blast w/ machine destroyer (Sagittar), or a beam style weapon (Ulator) that uses a 7" blast as the beam with 72" range, that's S5 vs infantry/bikes/beasts/cav/jetbikes, S8 vs MCs/non tank vehicles, S10 vs tanks, and D vs GMC/SHV/Fortifications. It also has pinning, armorbane, ignores cover, and instant death, and is fired by placing the template in contact with the front arc of the vehicle, and moving it in a straight line away (which means it never targets anything, so it can affect invis units). Both come with 3 volkite culverins (heavy 4 S6 AP5 45" with deflagrate).

Defensively it has 14/13/13 with 14HP and is a SHV obviously, restores one HP on a 6 if it lost a HP on the controlling player's turn, and a modified flare shield that starts as a -3 modifier for shooting attacks (both the D chart and strength) from the front/side arcs (or any side for barrage) but decreases the modifier to a -2 on the 2nd turn, and -1 on the 3rd or later turns, along with armored ceramite, and a 6++.

the Sagittar is 700pt, the Ulator is 1075pt, so expensive but dangerous, and very likely to survive for a few turns.

... What :-o? Please tell me you totally made that up as a joke!

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
There was a newer one from 2017 iirc in this thread.

Martel732 wrote:
Is it? I've never heard a single complaint about it.

The choice is between a 180" range primary weapon 1 10" D AP1 blast w/ machine destroyer (Sagittar), or a beam style weapon (Ulator) that uses a 7" blast as the beam with 72" range, that's S5 vs infantry/bikes/beasts/cav/jetbikes, S8 vs MCs/non tank vehicles, S10 vs tanks, and D vs GMC/SHV/Fortifications. It also has pinning, armorbane, ignores cover, and instant death, and is fired by placing the template in contact with the front arc of the vehicle, and moving it in a straight line away (which means it never targets anything, so it can affect invis units). Both come with 3 volkite culverins (heavy 4 S6 AP5 45" with deflagrate).

Defensively it has 14/13/13 with 14HP and is a SHV obviously, restores one HP on a 6 if it lost a HP on the controlling player's turn, and a modified flare shield that starts as a -3 modifier for shooting attacks (both the D chart and strength) from the front/side arcs (or any side for barrage) but decreases the modifier to a -2 on the 2nd turn, and -1 on the 3rd or later turns, along with armored ceramite, and a 6++.

the Sagittar is 700pt, the Ulator is 1075pt, so expensive but dangerous, and very likely to survive for a few turns.

... What :-o? Please tell me you totally made that up as a joke!

No, that's a real thing. It's a LoW for Cult mech armies (maybe skit too? I don't recall offhand.)

Keep in mind, one of these is most of an army generally, and you still need to buy the Admech CAD to unlock it which clocks in at a minimum of another ~400points for a bare bones HQ and troops, giving you a very low model count.

Okay. Well maybe this thing could shake up the meta a bit. But as it stands now, tanks generally are not a threat.

Where does everyone think the Ynnari rank?

Maybe if you could take the ordinatus with say, guard or something that lets you put bodies on the field, but as is, it's really hard to maintain a board presence AND have clear firing lines to not murder your own army. It's good, but even with skittari you're running pretty thin on the numbers. The ulator scares everything, but only if they line up/have a low unit count.

(and it does count as a LoW for skittari I think, which means you just need to grab one of the IoM HQs like Cawl for a CAD)

Mock up list is:

Cawl (for the 4++ turn 1 to make some of the skittari more durable)

1x 6 vanguard + alpha, 2x arc rifles
3x 5 vanguard +alpha, 2x arc rifles

3x 1 dragoon
1x Ironstrider
1x Ulator

Comes out to 1850 with 9 units for the archmagos canticles, and everything can pop a +3 BS doctrina if needed for big damage turn 1

Klowny wrote:
Where does everyone think the Ynnari rank?

Probably above CWE, as jetbikes don't get a boost from battle focus, but they do get the soulburst action. On the downside warp spiders are slightly less mobile.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/02/07/las-vegas-open-2017-top-8-lists-pictures/

So in order.

Chaos Deamons, Dark Angels Wolfstar, Chaos Deamon, Cult Mechanicus War Convo, Eldar-Tau, Corsairs, Farsight Enclaves and Chaos Deamons. Also I think a Dark Eldar player almost made the top 11 with a majority DE army and only a tiny amount of Eldar.

So those are all doing good int eh current meta, but this was not factoring in the new Eldar release at all. So it's already out of date. From what I hear both GS 2 and GS3 adds some super powerful options to their respective factions. It all remains to see how the meta will play out.

Martel732 wrote:
225 pts of my BA don't soak a thing. So forgive me if I'm a bit jealous of the DK.

I definitely agree BAs need a bunch of help, but nerfing other codices down to your level isn't the answer

I didn't say to nerf GK. I said don't give them psybolt ammo with nonsense rules like universal +1 str. GK can't work well because 2+ that's not on an MC doesn't work well.

Terminator spam's working out just fine for me. Its definitely a challenge though.

Psybolt ammo would give some needed shooting power thats somewhat lacking at the moment. Especially since its unlikely that Terminator armor is going to get some sort of buff anytime soon.

GKs do have the best terminators, but there's lot of AP2 out there .