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Saw the ghaz 's supliment at my flgs today. Other than the leaked changes like rage for naughts, not needing 10 for HoW, the three flyer formations, and the decurion formations its VERY clearly the direct replacement. Green tide is just gone. The cover art and fluff match up page for page.

Sorry to anyone who enjoyed it, but this isn't like the sentinels of Terra where you can still use it with your current marine book. This is a straight up version two, and invalidates the older version.

Directly from GW's site:

Waaagh! Ghazghkull is a supplement for Codex: Orks which expands upon the campaigns of the mighty Ork Warlord – Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.

This 80 page softback book holds the details of the savage splendour of the most famous Ork invasion force to ever take over a planet. From the strange tale of how Ghazghkull took his first fateful steps towards his unlikely destiny as ultimate overlord of the largest Waaagh! in the galaxy, to the rules that allow you to arrange your collection of Citadel Miniatures into Formations and Detachments from Ghazghkull’s army.

If that’s not enough, this revised and updated volume is packed with formations for use in Warhammer 40,000, including several previously available in The Red Waaagh! and Hour of the Wolf – along with three new formations! Three Altar of War missions and six Echoes of War missions inspired by the story of Ghazghkull’s rise make this a must-have for Ork aficionados.

No more Green Tide

How can a formation be gone? Please explain.

 wuestenfux wrote:
How can a formation be gone? Please explain.

This formation was in WAAAAGH! Ghazzy book. Now it's replaced with a "new" WAAAAGH! Ghazzy book without greentide. It might technically not be a replacement but as it shares the name, most people woud assume that it is one.

Watched a game with the new Orkurion being played tonight at my FLGS, it is pretty nasty! Especially the Council of the Waaagh, being able to Waaagh every turn is no joke.

 gmaleron wrote:
Watched a game with the new Orkurion being played tonight at my FLGS, it is pretty nasty! Especially the Council of the Waaagh, being able to Waaagh every turn is no joke.

ehm sure that 700+ pts unit would be nasty, it would have been a shame if it didn't. But how how is this relevant to the discussion ?




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 koooaei wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How can a formation be gone? Please explain.

This formation was in WAAAAGH! Ghazzy book. Now it's replaced with a "new" WAAAAGH! Ghazzy book without greentide. It might technically not be a replacement but as it shares the name, most people woud assume that it is one.

Not calling it a replacement is like calling codex orks 7th edition not a replacement of the 5th edition book and still playing whazdakka if you ask me ; )

ps I would LOVE that last option to be viable. I can't wait to turn everyone into squigs again

Looks like the green tide still is on the book. Is just that the green tide as well the pain mob are out of the orkurion. But still playable.

And with no changes or new stuff, so still need charge more than 10 inches to gain hammer xp.

And i am glad it still was in.... Since the orkurion sucks really hard


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like the green tide still is on the book. Is just that the green tide as well the pain mob are out of the orkurion. But still playable.

And with no changes or new stuff, so still need charge more than 10 inches to gain hammer xp.

And i am glad it still was in.... Since the orkurion sucks really hard

 koooaei wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How can a formation be gone? Please explain.

This formation was in WAAAAGH! Ghazzy book. Now it's replaced with a "new" WAAAAGH! Ghazzy book without greentide. It might technically not be a replacement but as it shares the name, most people woud assume that it is one.

Okay. Then is makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Still think GW hates orks...otherwise they will put the green tide as one of the core formation for the decurion.

Not just suits the goff concept of put massive ammounts of boyz, also will make the decurion a LOT more interesting to play, makes the special rule something good as well let us a decent use of auxiliar formations

I believe GW thinks it's giving Orks proper treatment. Orks are supposed to lose, and take relish in it too! It's part of the mindset Ork players must have, it's why they choose their army. This is the grand narrative.

Maybe Green Tide will be an option in the updated main codex (whenever that comes out), which is why they left it out of this revamped supplement. Total speculation, obviously.

While the Greentide is gone, the Waagh-Band is a far more achievable Core choice than what the Guard just got with the Cadiacurion.

Franarok wrote:
Still think GW hates orks...otherwise they will put the green tide as one of the core formation for the decurion.

Not just suits the goff concept of put massive ammounts of boyz, also will make the decurion a LOT more interesting to play, makes the special rule something good as well let us a decent use of auxiliar formations

if games workshop liked anyone that wasnty a space elf or a tau they wouldnt have made CC bad

 Kanluwen wrote:
While the Greentide is gone, the Waagh-Band is a far more achievable Core choice than what the Guard just got with the Cadiacurion.

Well, at least both guard cores can function without a 700 pt single command unit.
And they were actually new - at least to codex and supplements. And tank one is really not that bad. Though, pointless for cadilion bonuses but at least nice for cad armor spam.

 koooaei wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
While the Greentide is gone, the Waagh-Band is a far more achievable Core choice than what the Guard just got with the Cadiacurion.

Well, at least both guard cores can function without a 700 pt single command unit.

Have you read the book?

There's two Command options for the Ork detachment. Council of Waagh! or Oddboyz. Oddboyz are Meks, Big Meks, Painbosses, or Weirdboyz.
You're REQUIRED to have 1-3 Core choices and 1 Auxiliary, with 0-3 Command per Core.

The Waagh-Band comes with a Warboss in it, as does Da Goff Kill-Mob.

And they were actually new - at least to codex and supplements. And tank one is really not that bad. Though, pointless for cadilion bonuses but at least nice for cad armor spam.

Really? You want to say that "at least both Guard Cores can function without a 700 pt single command unit"?
Yeah. That's great! But you're looking at around 1k points for the Guard Infantry Core choice.
Oh, and 178 models(assuming you go minimal on Sentinels in the Sentinel Squads) MINIMUM.

Both the ork and Guard formations are silly in that regard. Compare the Core of a Demi Company or Reclamation legion to either and it's just stupid.

Actually, the Ork one isn't too outrageous if you take a Waagh-Band and are trying to sneak it in for under 1k games.

-Warboss
-Mek
-6 units of Ork Boyz
-1 unit of Nobz or Mega-Armored Nobz
-1 unit of Gretchin

Bare minimum sized units?
60 Boyz
10 Gretchin and a Runtherd
3 Nobz/MANz
Mek
Warboss

75 models at 524 points for normal Nobz rather than MANz and 75 models at 590 points for MANz.

That's your Core. You then have to take an Auxiliary choice. There's a ton of those; most of them being named formations. The standalone choices are Runtz(Gretchin), Speshulists(Lootas, Burna Boyz, Tankbustas, Kommandos, Stormboyz, or Flash Gitz), Speed Freeks(Warbikes, Warbuggies, or Deffkoptas), Mekboyz' Big Stuff(Stompa, Gorkanaut, Morkanaut, Battlewagon, or unit of Mek Gunz). Each of those is a single unit.

You then get 0-1 Command per Core(my bad on the 0-3; had that sitting in my head for some reason).
Core are 1+, Auxiliary are 1-10 per Core.

He's pointing out that it's only worth it if taking Ghazgkull for army-wide fearless (and the 2++ on Ghazgkull doesn't hurt) but the only way to get Ghazgkull is via his Formation which runs you about 700 points after upgrades.

Yes, you can take a minute core and a single warbuggy auxiliary on the cheap, but unless you have ghaz, you're wasting your time, much the same as if you're taking a chaplain outside of a gladius, you can, but why would you want to?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Have you read the book?

Have you read what The Boss Is Watching is? It makes them unplayable without Fearless.

The waaagh band which we ALLREADY HAD in the codex is better than waaaagh band in ghazcurion cause it doesn't get ghazcurion special rules listed as "benefits".

Do you see what i'm talking about?

 Drasius wrote:
He's pointing out that it's only worth it if taking Ghazgkull for army-wide fearless (and the 2++ on Ghazgkull doesn't hurt) but the only way to get Ghazgkull is via his Formation which runs you about 700 points after upgrades.

Yes, you can take a minute core and a single warbuggy auxiliary on the cheap, but unless you have ghaz, you're wasting your time, much the same as if you're taking a chaplain outside of a gladius, you can, but why would you want to?

And what I'm pointing out is that, unlike the Guard decurion, the Ork one is relatively easy to field. It's also not like this book is lacking in options of things for you to take.


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 koooaei wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Have you read the book?

Have you read what The Boss Is Watching is? It makes them unplayable without Fearless.

The waaagh band which we ALLREADY HAD in the codex is better than waaaagh band in ghazcurion cause it doesn't get ghazcurion special rules listed as "benefits".

Do you see what i'm talking about?

Yes or no:
Can you field the overall detachment sub-1k?

I'm not asking "Will it be good?". I'm asking "Can you field it sub-1k?".

Emperor's fist + ccs is 730 pts min. What's your point? IG also got some good formations. Orks got a nerf-curion and 3 useless flyer formations. The thing is the release was pretty pointless.
Both ig and orks now have pointless decurions. For no good reason. It's fieldable but it's worse than cad. In case of ig they at least got artillery, psycana and sentinel formations that are awesome. And i'm happy for ig. They sure need more but than orks need more and got none.

What do the Flyer formations do?

locarno24 wrote:
What do the Flyer formations do?

Nothing particularly interesting.

 koooaei wrote:
They sure need more but than orks need more and got none.

You know, as much as I try, I can't really feel sorry for you.

Now you know how CSM actually feel. Well, you've had a taste of it at least.

Do you now see why it is frustrating to see people say that the CSM codex is fine and its struggles are just a L2P issue? I could say the exact same thing to your Orkcurion right now.

Keyword: Mutilators.

(And yes, I agree. The Ork codex is a disaster. I haven't played Orks since 5th but I have watched its downfall from afar.)

 Ashiraya wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
They sure need more but than orks need more and got none.

You know, as much as I try, I can't really feel sorry for you.

Now you know how CSM actually feel. Well, you've had a taste of it at least.

Do you now see why it is frustrating to see people say that the CSM codex is fine and its struggles are just a L2P issue? I could say the exact same thing to your Orkcurion right now.

Keyword: Mutilators.

(And yes, I agree. The Ork codex is a disaster. I haven't played Orks since 5th but I have watched its downfall from afar.)

You got me wrong. Ork codex + formations are decent for a few playstiles. My gripe is that orcurion is pointless and that cad is better. So much cool stuff could have been done. They could have made walkers viable. They could have made a LOT of things viable. But all we have is all the old good things and no new good things. That's just a disappointment of false expectations.

And i've never ever stated that CSM are great on all fronts. I'm just pointing out that you can be successful with them and that there's a bunch of really good stuff in codex. But not too much variety. Same here.

And once again...mutilators are good! red flag

 koooaei wrote:


You got me wrong. Ork codex + formations are decent for a few playstiles. My gripe is that orcurion is pointless and that cad is better. So much cool stuff could have been done. They could have made walkers viable. They could have made a LOT of things viable. But all we have is all the old good things and no new good things. That's just a disappointment of false expectations.

What were you expecting, really?

 Ashiraya wrote:

What were you expecting, really?

I was expecting to get some new playstyle or at least making some weak stuff, that currently is aplenty, better. Not asking to make strong stuff stronger. Just weak stuff good enough to consider.

What made you think otherwise?

Because GW does not have a good track record of doing that.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Because GW does not have a good track record of doing that.

They did that with the last ork dex.

Ahem...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/gw-says-choose-your-own-40k-rules.html

This supports the notion that you can legitimately use the green tide, using the rules from the original book.