Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello All,

Just starting out 30k so I'm extremely new to this. And it isn't as mainstream as 40k so it seems to be a bit more difficult to rummage around for tips and tricks. So I figure that I'll just post the list I have made and get people's opinions and suggestions. I'm open to any changes (excluding Zardu Layak, because I just bought him and I love him <3) because as I said, I'm very new to this and wouldn't be surprised if this list would be considered 'bad'. Without further ado:

2496 pts:

Word Bearers

HQ:
Zardu Layak
- Warlord
- Anakatis Kul Blade-Slaves
- Dark Brethren RoW

Legion Centurion
- Artificer Armour
- Consul; Chaplain
- Burning Lore
- Plasma Pistol
- Tainted Weapon

Troops:
Legion Tactical Squad x20

The Ashen Circle x10
- Iconoclast with Artificer Armour
- Power Axe x5
- Dark Channeling

Elites:
Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren x5
- Dark Martyr with Power Fist and Artificer Armour
- Plasma Gun

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought
- Tainted Power Claw and Inbuilt Curs'd Boltspitter
- Warpfire Plasma Cannon

Daemons

HQ:
Kairos Fateweaver

Troops:
Pink Horrors x12

Pink Horrors x12

Elites:
Flamers of Tzeentch x5

Fast Attack:
Screamers of Tzeentch x5

Heavy Support:
Soul Grinder
- Daemon of Nurgle
- Phlegm Bombardment

No idea if this list is any good or not. Typically I feel I make decent 40k lists but 30k is very, very foreign to me still. Thanks in advance for checking out my list!

The problem you have here is that you have nothing that will counter heavy armour very well at all. If you come across something like a Spartan Assault tank, with armoured ceremite, then you would struggle to take it down in my opinion. My other small problem is that I think that that assault unit of five, the Ashen Circle, I don't know their rules as a Whute Scars player, but unless they have jump packs, then they will struggle to get anywhere. Even if they do, I think that they would be overwhelmed by a 15-20 man tactical squad with extra ccw weapons or another assault squad. Night Lords would tear through them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It may also break the rules of your RoW because you have to take a Diabolist in your HQ's, so all 3 HQ slots would have to be filled to my understanding.

 Decay wrote:
The problem you have here is that you have nothing that will counter heavy armour very well at all. If you come across something like a Spartan Assault tank, with armoured ceremite, then you would struggle to take it down in my opinion. My other small problem is that I think that that assault unit of five, the Ashen Circle, I don't know their rules as a Whute Scars player, but unless they have jump packs, then they will struggle to get anywhere. Even if they do, I think that they would be overwhelmed by a 15-20 man tactical squad with extra ccw weapons or another assault squad. Night Lords would tear through them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It may also break the rules of your RoW because you have to take a Diabolist in your HQ's, so all 3 HQ slots would have to be filled to my understanding.

Zardu Layak actually fills the role of a diabolist, thankfully.

You do have Fateweaver - he knows the entire discipline of tzeench, so you know he has prismatic gaze - a BS 5 destròyer shot is nothing to sneeze at!

Ashen Circle do have Jump Packs and Hand Flamers. But yeah, theyre better at supporting another unit than winning combat themselves

The Gal Vorbak can smash up a tank pretty well, too - that power fist is S10 with many attacks.

I think you might need to buy Dark Channeling for Zardu.

Also - can you afford to get Zardu and his boys a drop pod? The blade-slaves aren't that tough.....

locarno24 wrote:
You do have Fateweaver - he knows the entire discipline of tzeench, so you know he has prismatic gaze - a BS 5 destròyer shot is nothing to sneeze at!

Yeah because of that I wasn't all too concerned about having more anti tank, especially when I'm the one who will likely be dominating the psychic phase.

locarno24 wrote:
Ashen Circle do have Jump Packs and Hand Flamers. But yeah, theyre better at supporting another unit than winning combat themselves

Do you think they're worth scrapping altogether for something else?

locarno24 wrote:
The Gal Vorbak can smash up a tank pretty well, too - that power fist is S10 with many attacks.

Another reason why I wasn't all too concerned about anti tank stuff. If I really needed to I could also give Mhara Gal a multi melta too. Do you think it might be worth increasing the squad size?

locarno24 wrote:
I think you might need to buy Dark Channeling for Zardu.

As far as I can tell, I don't think that's actually an option for him unfortunately.

locarno24 wrote:
Also - can you afford to get Zardu and his boys a drop pod? The blade-slaves aren't that tough.....

I'm sure I can find the points. I would have to make it a fill a fast attack slot since it can't be dedicated transport for them, no? Not a big deal or anything, just want to confirm.

Edit: Actually, are regular drop pods even a thing in 30k? Again, this is all very foreign to me

A vindicator laser destroyer is a good AT option. At s9 ap1 Ordanace1 Twin Linked, with the option to become Ordanace 2 or even 3, at the cost of not moving, or the risk of loosing a single hull point, it's pretty good. And it's only 130p, which isn't bad. I recently bought one, with the thought to convert another one (DJ KHALED,!) for my Raven Guard. Looks like a good list, I have learned from experience that Ashen Circle are pretty good at taking out infantry.



Ember

I mean if you take layak, I think you have to take dark channelling for the legion tactical squad.

not that it's a bad option.


I dont think you can just buy a drop pod, but the anvillus dreadclaw is definitely available as a non-dedicated transport.

Ok, this comes from someone with limited experience, but here goes:

Ashen Circle: You dont need 5 power axes. A couple of them will die before reaching combat, and their normal axes are quite good anyways. I usually go for a 50/50 split to save points. Sure its only 5 points per axe, but the Axe Rakes are still quite good.

As for the centurion I would not take a tainted wep and plasma pistol, Instead i would go for a power wep for reliable AP.

The tacts could use a Artificer armour and an Apothecary, Thats 45 points the apothecary makes them last about 30% longer and the sergant can tank a lot of shots with 2+ armour.

so, I'd probably want to see this on the table top BUT

1) In 30k smaller units don't do as well as you may think. your gal vorbak will be pains, but the ashen circle will be shot to death or shreaded in CC since 5 models is a non-threat.
2) I'm assuming you're going full summoning? or did you have another plan for the daemons

those are my only 2 questions. Beyond that, it looks like it would be a pretty fun army to go up against.

 Brennonjw wrote:
so, I'd probably want to see this on the table top BUT

1) In 30k smaller units don't do as well as you may think. your gal vorbak will be pains, but the ashen circle will be shot to death or shreaded in CC since 5 models is a non-threat.
2) I'm assuming you're going full summoning? or did you have another plan for the daemons

those are my only 2 questions. Beyond that, it looks like it would be a pretty fun army to go up against.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

1) that was actually my bad, I forgot to list the fact that there was 10 of them, not 5. 5 with power axes and 5 with their axe rakes. Think the Gal Vorbak should be increased to 10 as well or do you think they're beefy enough to take a few hits?

2) Full summoning is indeed the plan. Can only pull so much off with just Zardu though.

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
so, I'd probably want to see this on the table top BUT

1) In 30k smaller units don't do as well as you may think. your gal vorbak will be pains, but the ashen circle will be shot to death or shreaded in CC since 5 models is a non-threat.
2) I'm assuming you're going full summoning? or did you have another plan for the daemons

those are my only 2 questions. Beyond that, it looks like it would be a pretty fun army to go up against.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

1) that was actually my bad, I forgot to list the fact that there was 10 of them, not 5. 5 with power axes and 5 with their axe rakes. Think the Gal Vorbak should be increased to 10 as well or do you think they're beefy enough to take a few hits?

2) Full summoning is indeed the plan. Can only pull so much off with just Zardu though.

10 gal vorbak are a beefy bullet sponge, so yeah, 10 of them would complement well, Keep them with the gal vorbak contemptor, and you have 2 stabby units that will ruin days unless focused on.

So I quickly drew up a new list, compiling all the suggestions I've gotten and I really like how it turned out. It's certainly more Word Bearer heavy than Daemon, which I certainly like. Here it is:

2500 pts (on the nose):

Word Bearers:

HQ:
Zardu Layak
- Warlord
- Anakatis Kul Blade-Slaves
- Dark Brethren RoW

Legion Centurion
- Consul; Chaplain
- Artificer Armour
- Burning Lore
- Power Weapon

Troops:
Tac Squad x20
- Dark Channeling
- Sergeant with Power Fist and Artificer Armour

Ashen Circle x10
- Dark Channeling
- Power Axe x4
- Iconoclast with Artificer Armour, Power Axes, and Melta Bombs (had 5 points to kill)

Elites:
Apothecarion Detachment
- Legion Apothecary with Tac Squad

Gal Vorbak x10
- Plasma Gun x2
- Dark Martry with Power Fist and Artificer Armour

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought
- Tainted Power Claw and Inbuilt Curs'd Boltspitter
- Warpfire Plasma Cannon

Daemons
HQ:
Kairos Fateweaver

Troops:
Pink Horrors x10

Fast Attack:
Screamers of Tzeentch x5

Heavy Support:
Soul Grinder of Chaos
- Daemon of Nurgle
- Warp Gaze

I've been hearing that Daemons can indeed summon but it sounds like that's for for debate. If they can, that's what Kairos might be doing. It's a toss up between that or sticking with the tzeentch disipline for Prismatic Gaze to lay on some anti-tank. Likely something I'll decide one I see my opponent's list.

I like it, though how many points is the Soul grinder eating up? You may be better off replacing it with something else unless you already have a plan in mind for it.

 Brennonjw wrote:
I like it, though how many points is the Soul grinder eating up? You may be better off replacing it with something else unless you already have a plan in mind for it.

175 points, which isn't too bad. And I have no specific plan for it, just some anti tank duty with it's warp gaze. Only really using it because I have it and don't have many options on hand.

I've been hearing that Daemons can indeed summon but it sounds like that's for for debate. If they can, that's what Kairos might be doing. It's a toss up between that or sticking with the tzeentch disipline for Prismatic Gaze to lay on some anti-tank. Likely something I'll decide one I see my opponent's list.

Fateweaver doesn't give you any choice in powers. His disciplines are fixed - he'll automatically have one malefic power, and the entire discipline of tzeench (which now also includes a summoning power).

Plasma guns on the Gal Vorbak? I can't remember if they're relentless or not, but if not, drop 'em. If you're in rapid fire range with plasma weapons you're in range to charge and Gal Vorbak are very much a melee unit, despite also having bolters. WS5, S5, I5 rending is scary awesome.


I'll be honest, one BS3 shot ain't so hot, S10 or not. I'd take Plegm, not Warp Gaze - even a low BS large blast will still probably hit a big block of legion infantry, solar auxilia, etc, and S8 AP3 is enough to blow holes in 15+ man heavy infantry squads before they get close enough to mix it up.

Mhara Gal has terrible synergy with Daemons. I would recommend dropping it due to that issue. Zardu and his slaves are walking all on their own? I don't think that is wise - put him in the Tac squad and let him summon or toss him in the GV for Cursed Earth. As much as I love the Slave models, they don't fit well in just about any list, sadly.

You won't need the Burning Lore on the Chappy, imo. Add Artificer armor to the Apoth so he can last as long as possible. Also, I recommend a Primus for the GV and Power Mauls for their squad for some high Str rending nonsense.

I would scrap the Grinder too and make room for another 20-man Tac squad with an Apothecary. This will give you a bigger footprint and in 30k, you need more dudes.

Just some thoughts.

I was thinking about adding some more anti tank to the list and the most common suggestion I've seen on forums is a Rapier Laser Destroyer. However, at £30 a pop that's rather pricey. This is me under the assumption that I need more than one.

Would I only need one or should I be looking at some heavy support instead?

I just noticed your GV don't have Mauls. Go for those over the Plasma. Safer, overall better option for them imo.

As for AT options, maybe the Laser Vindi or three? Have them sit still and lob out a slew of S9 AP1 TL Ordnance shots.

Graviton Rapiers are an option too, because Haywire (take that Armored Ceramite and Flare Shield!)

Convert rapier weapon platforms from kataphron ad mech minis

Tons cheaper and it comes with a decent graviton cannon.