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Correct. 9" from flame is quite strong too.

I don't see the need for throwing 5 seers in there. Just roll with your standard 2 seers and 5 warlocks and you have a pretty deadly unit in both CC and shooting and psychic - if you give them all shigning spears. It about 500 points like that and you will have plenty of other units to draw heat off it...who wants to shoot at fortuned 4++ bikes? Buff your army hard - use the council as a CC deterent/ short ranged mech killer/ titan hunter. It has a lot of uses and it sticks around. If it wasn't for the monetary cost of warlocks on bikes...I'd probably run it every game.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't see the need for throwing 5 seers in there. Just roll with your standard 2 seers and 5 warlocks and you have a pretty deadly unit in both CC and shooting and psychic - if you give them all shigning spears. It about 500 points like that and you will have plenty of other units to draw heat off it...who wants to shoot at fortuned 4++ bikes? Buff your army hard - use the council as a CC deterent/ short ranged mech killer/ titan hunter. It has a lot of uses and it sticks around. If it wasn't for the monetary cost of warlocks on bikes...I'd probably run it every game.

Dark eldar bikes man... That is what I proxy for them. Kit bash some swords into their hands (witch blades), and your good to go.. they look more "warlocky" as well

Not a bad idea - the head with the mask looks pretty warlocky. However the bikes don't to me. Too spiky.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Not a bad idea - the head with the mask looks pretty warlocky. However the bikes don't to me. Too spiky.

The bikes are what do it for me! But that is the beauty of the hobby. To each their own

I am not a huge fan of the council, but thats largely attributed to my local meta playing by ITC rules. Meaning no multiple shrieks, and because of this, I find it real hard to see how they can justify their damage output. With the 600+ points in that unit, I would much rather take my 2 lynxs. I would like to see more games with them, and I need to test them out myself more though.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Casting model.

Is that ruling applied with the warlock unit too? As they're essentially brotherhood of psykers does the unit not cast the power.

You still declare one of the Brotherhood as the casting model.

But you can pick any one right??

Yes

 Rypher wrote:
@Darkness
BFS this past year was won by that exact army. 5 farseers, baharroth, a few scatterbikes, and a wraithknight. Zach, my good friend and fellow club member, was able to go 6-0 over the weekend with said super seer council, beating out many top tier players including past and present American ETC members.

Likewise, the recent ITC gt, Hammer in the New Year, was won by Matt, also playing a 5 farseer / baharroth / wknight council.

Yes, it is points intensive and yes it is pretty much your "whole army." The fact remains that it is quite the resilient unit that puts out horrendous amounts of damage, enough to make it one of the best deathstars in the current meta. : )


@Thread
NOVA as well as ETC and other UK events read psycher / psycher unit as an individual model and not a whole unit, thus allowing each psycher in a real unit to cast multiple powers. One farseer can't cast shriek twice, but two in a unit can. ITC, however, does not allow this whatsoever. Both event wins give some credibility in both formats to the overall strength of a full seer council (on jetbikes, of course).

Ayyyye, I played against this list about a month ago at a local tourney (OTB). Zach and his friend, Amir (I believe) showed up with the same list. They had 3x5 Warp Spider formation as well. That army is fantastic. Unless, there is another Zach running around with the same list in middle Jersey... haha.

For those saying 1200~ points for 1 unit is too much in "this meta" (as broad as that is), I'd disagree. IMO, the bigger the star the better/easier it is to protect it. You only need 1 Invis and with 5 Seers is are damn close to guaranteeing it. You will probably end up getting 2 Invis, 1 for the star and 1 for the knight. Haha. Now that was fun. I paired up against this list the 1st round with my 5 flyrant list and I couldn't hurt anything, I even had 4 Mawlocs to hurt the invis unit but 4++ rerollable is just hilarious. His Cleansing flame alone were pouring wounds into my Flyrants, 19~ inch bubbles are hard to avoid. My opponent was using Cleansing Flame at S6 instead of S5 all the way until Turn4 when someone watching called him out on it... We ended up amending this mistake by adding 1 wound on all flyrants (all 5 were at 2-3 wounds at the time), but it didn't change the outcome of the game.

5 Farseers and warlock that can turboboost last turn makes it very hard to control objectives. Granted 2 Farseers must stay with the locks since you are using the Formation to run that many Seers. Don't forget you still have 3x5 Warp Spiders, 2x3 Scats, and a WK to also contest. It's a tough list, but in Nova and ITC - ITC does nerf it a little, but eh - it's still very viable.

@Saythings
Yeah, that was the same Zach and Amir I went down with. I opted for a different Eldar list with all my wraithguard as I've been running them for a while.

I'm still a fan of seer council, considering it being one of the best and most versatile stars out there. Yeah, if you play it wrong it will lose. But throw a savvy general behind it and you've got a force to be reckoned with.

Saythings wrote:

 Rypher wrote:
@Darkness
BFS this past year was won by that exact army. 5 farseers, baharroth, a few scatterbikes, and a wraithknight. Zach, my good friend and fellow club member, was able to go 6-0 over the weekend with said super seer council, beating out many top tier players including past and present American ETC members.

Likewise, the recent ITC gt, Hammer in the New Year, was won by Matt, also playing a 5 farseer / baharroth / wknight council.

Yes, it is points intensive and yes it is pretty much your "whole army." The fact remains that it is quite the resilient unit that puts out horrendous amounts of damage, enough to make it one of the best deathstars in the current meta. : )


@Thread
NOVA as well as ETC and other UK events read psycher / psycher unit as an individual model and not a whole unit, thus allowing each psycher in a real unit to cast multiple powers. One farseer can't cast shriek twice, but two in a unit can. ITC, however, does not allow this whatsoever. Both event wins give some credibility in both formats to the overall strength of a full seer council (on jetbikes, of course).

Ayyyye, I played against this list about a month ago at a local tourney (OTB). Zach and his friend, Amir (I believe) showed up with the same list. They had 3x5 Warp Spider formation as well. That army is fantastic. Unless, there is another Zach running around with the same list in middle Jersey... haha.

For those saying 1200~ points for 1 unit is too much in "this meta" (as broad as that is), I'd disagree. IMO, the bigger the star the better/easier it is to protect it. You only need 1 Invis and with 5 Seers is are damn close to guaranteeing it. You will probably end up getting 2 Invis, 1 for the star and 1 for the knight. Haha. Now that was fun. I paired up against this list the 1st round with my 5 flyrant list and I couldn't hurt anything, I even had 4 Mawlocs to hurt the invis unit but 4++ rerollable is just hilarious. His Cleansing flame alone were pouring wounds into my Flyrants, 19~ inch bubbles are hard to avoid. My opponent was using Cleansing Flame at S6 instead of S5 all the way until Turn4 when someone watching called him out on it... We ended up amending this mistake by adding 1 wound on all flyrants (all 5 were at 2-3 wounds at the time), but it didn't change the outcome of the game.

5 Farseers and warlock that can turboboost last turn makes it very hard to control objectives. Granted 2 Farseers must stay with the locks since you are using the Formation to run that many Seers. Don't forget you still have 3x5 Warp Spiders, 2x3 Scats, and a WK to also contest. It's a tough list, but in Nova and ITC - ITC does nerf it a little, but eh - it's still very viable.

Did they end up winning the tourney, like going 1-2?

Also what gives them the 4++ reroll?

its eldar, the only way to be uncompetitive is to run unbound ranger with war walkers and wraithlords because youve taken away your best units and you are taking away all your magic

 ionusx wrote:
its eldar, the only way to be uncompetitive is to run unbound ranger with war walkers and wraithlords because youve taken away your best units and you are taking away all your magic

The sad part is... that is still not even that bad ... and that is why Eldar is the top codex lol

@Vulkan

I took first with wraithgate (wraithguard + farseers, eldrad, baharrroth). Zach was 2nd. Amir was 4th, because he and I played round 3 top table.

Seers all have a 3+/4++ from the jetbike and rune armor. With fortune, it's rerollable.

@SonsofVulkan, Edit: Oh, my. I thought They were 1st and 2nd. Glad Rypher clarified.

Fortune gives them the reroll. It allows them to reroll any failed saves. 2+ armor with Protect (from the locks), 2+ Cover with Jink and Shrouding (from the locks), and 4++ (standard on all seers/locks). With 2+ saves, I think it's like 140 bolter shots in order for a wound to go through. And I don't think that includes Invisibility... haha. Rough stuff.

My Flyrant list was as competitive as it gets, for Nids. But I'm working on a new Wolfstar list atm, so I'll be happy to run into the Seer Council again. Slowly building the Cyber Wolves/Cavalry now. Stupid work is keeping me busy. I just want to play with my Barbie dolls D:

Edit: Ninja'd!!! @Rypher, I assumed you were the 3rd member of the group that showed up. Never caught your name. I'm Joe. The one with the headband and sweats. Classic Saturday attire. I didn't realize you got 1st, congratz I

Yup yup, I am the third, name's Cam. Nice to meet ya, I remembered your list. Looked like it was a tough match between you and the council. And thanks!

Eldar psychic might is nothing to be scoffed at. Nova favors deathstars, so nothing like a "points sink" unit that kills everything and wins, haha.

Now the real reason I clicked on this post:

Seer Council is still very competitive. A few people on here voiced their opinion about the Seer Council whether it's competitive or not and I could "see" it going both ways but it honestly depends on the ruleset you are using. As Rypher mentioned Nova favors Deathstars a little and ITC nerfs Invis, yadda yadda - it's a preference thing. Or maybe a lack of experience thing. On paper sinking 1200 points into 1 unit seems crazy, but my most recent Wolfstar sinks 1740 points out of 1850 into 1 Deathstar. The footprint can fill my entire deployment zone and after scout moves and first turn movement, I'm in your deployment zone with 4++ and Invis. I'm getting that 6-15" charge off on the top/bottom of the second.

Obviously Seer Council has a different mindset when it comes to how their deathstar works, but putting 1200 points into 1 unit isn't a "too many eggs in 1 basket" kind of idea. Seercouncil is WAY too durable to think like that. It's reliably taking out 1-4 units a turn with it's psychic prowess and Skurikens/Charges. When I played it last, I killed 2x3 Scat Bikes and.. that's it. His Council and Wrath had invis the entire game and his Warp Spiders danced around the center LOS ruins.

However, if I could convince you not to use it, I would. Haha. It's really annoying and hard to play against especially with a great general behind it. (Kidding - I love playing against top tier lists)

TD;DR - Seer Council:

@Rypher Hope to see you at more locals, I plan on going to every tournament I can when my Wolfstar is done being painted. Need that practice for Nova2016!! You and your boys going?

Yeah, most of Togit is going to NOVA. Come on up to our store for tournaments; you'll get great practice against a really competitive meta.

 Rypher wrote:
Yeah, most of Togit is going to NOVA. Come on up to our store for tournaments; you'll get great practice against a really competitive meta.

Who won the tourney this past weekend?