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Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oklahoma City

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 bocatt wrote:
Dont be afraid of the TIE Swarm. Regular Academies are not competitive or viable and Crack Squadrons are hardly more so because they suffer from almost all of the same problems as regular Academies. They push damage better and they out PS generic Y-wings and B-wings, but an Aces list will still fly circles around them and pick them apart little by little, destroying whichever ship has firing arc before it can actually fire.
Swarms are NOT that strong .

You haven't flown against a well played swarm then.

For one, swarms and mini-swarms had a respectable showing in the top 32 of Worlds last year, including a Black Squadron Crack Shot swarm flown by the French Nationals winner.

Because the lowly TIE fighter is the best ship in the game, coupled by the fact that they have some seriously good pilots, TIE swarms will always be around and always be good.


I flew a "swarm" or mini swarm at Store Champs. Howl + 4 Academys and Soontir Fel. I got torn a new one by Aggressors, Firesprays, Hound's Tooth, Poe/Ello/Red Ace and TLTs. The basic TIE Fighter is not the best ship in the game. Your green dice abandon you for one round and you have already lost. Pop goes Howlrunner and 1-2 Academys and you're now flying less than half a real list.

I would believe that Crack Squadrons would make a better showing. 5 of them is 5 guaranteed damage. Which helps with the problem of pushing damage through on 2 and 3 agility ships. But you'll still probably lose one before it shoots anyway and a good player won't give you the opportunity to focus fire all 6 TIEs on an Ace.

The standard TIE Swarm is great for casual games. Not competitively. Especially when you take into consideration that even when you win, you're losing a lot of points and giving your opponent points because individual ships drop like flies and are worth 12 or 18 points (Howl) a pop. While two ship builds are feast or famine, going 200-0 or 0-200 usually.

Proud supporter of


It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
-Gabriel Angelos 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 bocatt wrote:
I flew a "swarm" or mini swarm at Store Champs. Howl + 4 Academys and Soontir Fel. I got torn a new one by Aggressors, Firesprays, Hound's Tooth, Poe/Ello/Red Ace and TLTs.
Fly better maybe? Just because you're not good with something doesn't make that thing not good.

The basic TIE Fighter is not the best ship in the game.
Yeah, actually it is. All of the named PS6+ pilots are all very good. The Academy Pilot is the base by which all other ships in this game are judged. The Academy Pilot has an efficiency of 100% and when flown with Howlrunner, that goes up to 117%. Point for point, there isn't a better ship in the game.

Your green dice abandon you for one round and you have already lost. Pop goes Howlrunner and 1-2 Academys and you're now flying less than half a real list.
None of that makes any of the good stuff about the TIE fighter less true.

I would believe that Crack Squadrons would make a better showing. 5 of them is 5 guaranteed damage. Which helps with the problem of pushing damage through on 2 and 3 agility ships. But you'll still probably lose one before it shoots anyway and a good player won't give you the opportunity to focus fire all 6 TIEs on an Ace.
Crack Shot swarms are good and in the hands of a competent player they're even better.

The standard TIE Swarm is great for casual games. Not competitively. Especially when you take into consideration that even when you win, you're losing a lot of points and giving your opponent points because individual ships drop like flies and are worth 12 or 18 points (Howl) a pop. While two ship builds are feast or famine, going 200-0 or 0-200 usually.
Except the fact that TIE swarms have performed consistently well in competitive play shows that they are good.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/05 04:33:50


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Yeah, I'm happy to argue with Scooty when I feel it warrants it, but he's got the right of this.

TIEs are really hard to fly well, but this isn't a fault with the list, it's a fault with the player. 4, 5 or more arcs at range 1 with a couple of well synergised pilot abilities or upgrades and they'll take down anything in short order, with the advantage of 3 defense dice and a well diffused spread of HP (i.e. They're not all in one or two ships where a crit or bad turn can really cripple it.)

Then add the TIE dial and all the flexibility it brings and you're looking at an incredibly potent, if technically challenging, list.

I can't fly them well, that doesn't mean I don't recognize the fault lies with me.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I'm happy to argue with Scooty when I feel it warrants it, but he's got the right of this.
You know, we actually agree on stuff way more than you let on.

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Shhhhh, Azreal13 has a contrarian reputation to uphold.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

What?!!

That's utter bull gak, and if that's you're impression of my posting then pay more attention.

Jesus. Of all the gak, often unwarranted, that gets leveled at me from time to time, that has to be the least plausible bunch of arse anyone has ever dragged out of the mouldy cracks of their hind brain, made all the more irritating by the fact that I'm often the one who holds the contrarians to account and hilights the inconsistencies in their position.

I got a week ban for calling somebody contrary, in case you think I'm overreacting, so either back that up or apologize.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







...KEEPING IN MIND THAT RULE #1 WILL NEED TO BE FOLLOWED AT ALL TIMES.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

That was nothing more than a joke. I quite appreciate your posts actually, no offense as ever intended.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Fair enough, lets chalk it up to text based comms being lousy at conveying inflection and move on.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

So I finally did get my first game in tonight
============================

99 points

Darth Vader (34)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5), Adaptability (0)

Colonel Vessery (41)
TIE Defender (35), Homing Missiles (5), Veteran Instincts (1), Guidance Chips (0)

Storm Squadron Pilot (24)
TIE Advanced (23), TIE/x1 (0), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), Guidance Chips (0), Accuracy Corrector (3)

I was playing against a Poe (regeneration) , Luke (R2-D2) and generic B-wing (Mangler cannon) list.

Game 1 was pretty good, I was able to focus in on the B-wing first, killing it with little damage, the storm Squadron died next, but I'd used him to block relatively well, forcing Luke into a crossfire between Vessery and Vader.

Vessery went down next but soaked a lot of Poe's fire while Vader got onto Luke's tail and burned him down (cinematicly he stayed alive an extra turn when Vader's shots killed R2).

Unfortunately in my zeal to finish off Luke, Vader, who had only lost 1 shield at that point, could not avoid flying off the board (ahem, I mean, declared victory and returned to the Executor).

Second game we were rushed for time and I got sloppy with my maneuver dials - and flew Vessery and the Storm pilot over asteroids (Vessery when he had 1 hull left) taking damage both times. Vader died to a 2 blank & 2 focus roll when Poe (I think) rolled 4 hits/crits (possibly with focus) having only lost 1 shield before that (I had barrel rolled and locked with Vader that turn). I think I killed Luke again that game but it might have been the B-wing.

Lessons learned: Homing Missiles are not as cool as I thought (evade tokens are not the same as evade results on the dice) and if you are going to bring ordinance and guidance chips you should remember to use them (I completely forgot about the S-thread tracers both games).

And while going after the B-wing was cool with a Storm Squadron Pilot, if I'd swapped him down to Tempest and dropped the tracers, I could have had a HLC and upgraded engine for Vessery instead of the missiles (and because of the points I'd have still been able to move after all of his pilots).

The relevant parties (bobcat and Griffin) may now commence to say "I told you so).
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Yeah. Homing Missiles aren't bad, but by the time a TIE defender is paying 5 points on a weapon upgrade, you're only 2 points shy of a Heavy Laser Cannon, which is reusable and doesn't require a target lock to set up.

They're much, much better on dedicated bombers and heavies who can pack Extra Munitions (getting 2 shots for 7 points total)., and will be a lot scarier once Guidance Chips show up.

The S-thread Tracers are nice but want to be on a high PS pilot (to set up locks for everyone else) and ideally want to be in a ship with many fighters (as in 4+). Their value is directly proportional to the number of free target locks you're 'trading' that attack for. On something like a Z-95 swarm with four or five missile-armed head-hunters in range, it's amazing. On a ship shooting after the rest of your list.....so so at best.

If you want to use the TIE advanced to block, I'd agree with making him a Tempest Squadron.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
 
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