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2016/03/05 07:24:55
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host + Chaos Knight (Report Completed)
Alright the army has a few more options now. I dropped a platoon for point reasons and decreased the melta squads to 15 models each. The daemons are going to add some mobility with possible psychic summoning if needed. In addition, the chaos knight gives me the beat stick that I need... I also have the ability to shoot for a 2++ re-rollable save if the match-up is nasty enough. Probably wont end up doing that and will settle for the portalglyph in most games to bring in some free troops. What are your all's thoughts on the list?
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2016/03/25 00:40:40
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
I still doubt your ability to finish at least 5 turns average through a GT. That makes me dislike the army and I feel like its sort of a exploitative build due to that...
Im not sure I like the addition of the knight. Youve got a bunch of infantry and then 1 walker. Basically you are making it easy for your opponents by presenting them with an efficient target for their anti-tank. I'd probably rather have an infantry based assault unit for that purpose. It is nice to completely laugh off all your opponents anti-tank.
Bee beep boo baap
2016/03/05 16:43:54
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
I like your new list better. It's faster to play and the Daemon detachment is a good idea. The Chaos Knight in particular is a good addition, especially as it also counts as a Daemon of Tzeentch in the ITC. That guy will take a lot of heat meant for the rest of the army and he can absorb a lot of punishment as well. More importantly, he will give you the board control that your previous list was lacking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/05 16:44:57
I really like you and what you are doing with RH Unending Host.
However. I just want to remind you that the troops you spawn out of portaglyph amd summoning do not get obj secured. Neither does your RH troops get obj sec. I am sure you are aware. U need beasts, MC, GMC not vehicles or even more troops. You need mobility to cap obj as the rest sit and shoot.
The IK is a ticking time bomb for real. I been trying to get the IK to work for me and the only thing it consistently does is get drestroyed and explodes. You need to get that thing in their face and pop on them. If you hang back then it will pop on your guys but thats not so bad due to the Unending Host revival.
2016/03/05 23:20:16
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
How could the knight get a 2++ rerollable ? A 2++ makes sense, but how does he reroll it? I was under the impression that he doesn't have the benefits of a tzeentch demon, he has his own set of other benefits (I.e. Reroll 1s to hit) .
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2016/03/06 01:38:08
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
Fxeni wrote: How could the knight get a 2++ rerollable ? A 2++ makes sense, but how does he reroll it? I was under the impression that he doesn't have the benefits of a tzeentch demon, he has his own set of other benefits (I.e. Reroll 1s to hit) .
In the ITC, a Daemon Knight of ________ also counts as a Daemon of _________. Thius they get the benefits of both, which makes them really good in the ITC.
Where is that found ? Is it in the FAQ? I'm not seeing it.
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2016/03/06 02:42:39
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
ah.... Well, then it's not ITCs rules, it's LVOs rules then
Not trying to be snarky here, btw, I genuinely want to know if this was official since I run occasionally run chaos knights and this is a big buff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/06 03:53:34
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2016/03/06 04:06:25
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
A model with this special rule gains the Daemon and Hatred
(Daemons of Nurgle) special rules. In addition, the Daemon Knight
may re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and its heavy stubbers have the Soul
Blaze special rule. It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with
Tzeentch.
I believe it is pretty cut and dry that they are daemons of that particular god. I wouldnt just say its an LVO/ITC ruling... i would consider it a Daemon of X unless a TO changes the rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LValx wrote:I still doubt your ability to finish at least 5 turns average through a GT. That makes me dislike the army and I feel like its sort of a exploitative build due to that...
Im not sure I like the addition of the knight. Youve got a bunch of infantry and then 1 walker. Basically you are making it easy for your opponents by presenting them with an efficient target for their anti-tank. I'd probably rather have an infantry based assault unit for that purpose. It is nice to completely laugh off all your opponents anti-tank.
Before commenting I ask that you look at the meta, missions, and current state of the game... then consider that a ton of games are ending early regardless of builds. The game itself needs longer round or reduced points.
Considering an army exploitative because you think i can slow play it? That is a tough pill to swallow. I will say this.: IN just about every GT game i play the game is practically over by turn 4 with me usually wiping them out or the points are just so heavily favored to one side... on the rare occasion that it is still a game at that point the games usually make it to natural conclusions.
The knight draws a lot of fire. Today I lost a total of 4 infantry squads... Report should start tomorrow.
jy2 wrote:I like your new list better. It's faster to play and the Daemon detachment is a good idea. The Chaos Knight in particular is a good addition, especially as it also counts as a Daemon of Tzeentch in the ITC. That guy will take a lot of heat meant for the rest of the army and he can absorb a lot of punishment as well. More importantly, he will give you the board control that your previous list was lacking.
The new ITC missions are actually very friendly to this army... board control isnt as hard given how many units i have converging to the center of the table. In addition, the ability to get 3 points in one turn is crushing... MSU armies will take serious hits with that update.
Filch wrote:I really like you and what you are doing with RH Unending Host.
However. I just want to remind you that the troops you spawn out of portaglyph amd summoning do not get obj secured. Neither does your RH troops get obj sec. I am sure you are aware. U need beasts, MC, GMC not vehicles or even more troops. You need mobility to cap obj as the rest sit and shoot.
The IK is a ticking time bomb for real. I been trying to get the IK to work for me and the only thing it consistently does is get drestroyed and explodes. You need to get that thing in their face and pop on them. If you hang back then it will pop on your guys but thats not so bad due to the Unending Host revival.
I was tracking the only two units that had OBSEC were the nurglings and the horrors. I actually really liked the nurglings as I used them multiple times to deepstrike deep into enemy territory to contest or score an objective. For 45 pts they are a real bargain.
Having a 3++ invul save is pretty nice and greatly improves the survivability of the imperial knight. My imperial knight met its end in 2 of the 3 games I played today... but he definitely made his points in every game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/06 04:15:17
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
A model with this special rule gains the Daemon and Hatred
(Daemons of Nurgle) special rules. In addition, the Daemon Knight
may re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and its heavy stubbers have the Soul
Blaze special rule. It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with
Tzeentch.
I believe it is pretty cut and dry that they are daemons of that particular god. I wouldnt just say its an LVO/ITC ruling... i would consider it a Daemon of X unless a TO changes the rules.
What do you mean? It doesn't say anywhere you get the Daemon of Tzeentch special rules? Daemon, sure. Doesn't say Daemon of Tzeentch?
Well, either way, I'll drop it. Obviously a topic for YMDC, but I guess I don't see the RAW argument being made.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/06 04:58:54
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2016/03/06 05:20:40
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
A model with this special rule gains the Daemon and Hatred
(Daemons of Nurgle) special rules. In addition, the Daemon Knight
may re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and its heavy stubbers have the Soul
Blaze special rule. It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with
Tzeentch.
I believe it is pretty cut and dry that they are daemons of that particular god. I wouldnt just say its an LVO/ITC ruling... i would consider it a Daemon of X unless a TO changes the rules.
What do you mean? It doesn't say anywhere you get the Daemon of Tzeentch special rules? Daemon, sure. Doesn't say Daemon of Tzeentch?
Well, either way, I'll drop it. Obviously a topic for YMDC, but I guess I don't see the RAW argument being made.
Verbatem: "It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/06 05:21:14
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
A model with this special rule gains the Daemon and Hatred
(Daemons of Nurgle) special rules. In addition, the Daemon Knight
may re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and its heavy stubbers have the Soul
Blaze special rule. It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with
Tzeentch.
I believe it is pretty cut and dry that they are daemons of that particular god. I wouldnt just say its an LVO/ITC ruling... i would consider it a Daemon of X unless a TO changes the rules.
What do you mean? It doesn't say anywhere you get the Daemon of Tzeentch special rules? Daemon, sure. Doesn't say Daemon of Tzeentch?
Well, either way, I'll drop it. Obviously a topic for YMDC, but I guess I don't see the RAW argument being made.
Verbatem: "It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch."
I feel like if it was suppose to get Daemon of Tzeentch, they would have just come out and said Daemon of Tzeentch and not come convoluted "Daemon aligned with Tzeentch"
2016/03/06 05:37:42
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
A model with this special rule gains the Daemon and Hatred
(Daemons of Nurgle) special rules. In addition, the Daemon Knight
may re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and its heavy stubbers have the Soul
Blaze special rule. It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with
Tzeentch.
I believe it is pretty cut and dry that they are daemons of that particular god. I wouldnt just say its an LVO/ITC ruling... i would consider it a Daemon of X unless a TO changes the rules.
What do you mean? It doesn't say anywhere you get the Daemon of Tzeentch special rules? Daemon, sure. Doesn't say Daemon of Tzeentch?
Well, either way, I'll drop it. Obviously a topic for YMDC, but I guess I don't see the RAW argument being made.
Verbatem: "It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch."
I feel like if it was suppose to get Daemon of Tzeentch, they would have just come out and said Daemon of Tzeentch and not come convoluted "Daemon aligned with Tzeentch"
If 2+3 is 5 then why wouldnt 3 + 2 also be 5? Not understanding why people are coming to their conclusions other then they just think it may be overpowered.... If the sentence doesnt give them tzeentch then what is the point of that sentence.
Btw the chaos daemons book actually references daemonic alignment in the rules for the various gods on page 26 of the CD Codex.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
The point of the sentence is that they are aligned as with Tzeentch for things such as Hatred: Tzeentch Daemons or the warp storm table.
40k isn't math, the transitive property doesn't apply. If I said a model didn't feel fear that doesn't mean is has the Fearless rule. It has to specifically say you have Fearless to have that rule.
The CD codex doesn't refer to the "Daemon of x" as demonic alignments. The entry you are referring to is its own rule (the rule that prevents you from joining units of different gods togehter) and it just happens to be named Demonic Alignment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/06 06:47:14
2016/03/06 15:06:36
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
CrownAxe wrote: The point of the sentence is that they are aligned as with Tzeentch for things such as Hatred: Tzeentch Daemons or the warp storm table.
40k isn't math, the transitive property doesn't apply. If I said a model didn't feel fear that doesn't mean is has the Fearless rule. It has to specifically say you have Fearless to have that rule.
The CD codex doesn't refer to the "Daemon of x" as demonic alignments. The entry you are referring to is its own rule (the rule that prevents you from joining units of different gods togehter) and it just happens to be named Demonic Alignment.
If "a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch" didn't mean anything how could you then go and say it counted for Hatred: Tzeentch?
2016/03/06 16:01:14
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
CrownAxe wrote: The point of the sentence is that they are aligned as with Tzeentch for things such as Hatred: Tzeentch Daemons or the warp storm table.
40k isn't math, the transitive property doesn't apply. If I said a model didn't feel fear that doesn't mean is has the Fearless rule. It has to specifically say you have Fearless to have that rule.
The CD codex doesn't refer to the "Daemon of x" as demonic alignments. The entry you are referring to is its own rule (the rule that prevents you from joining units of different gods togehter) and it just happens to be named Demonic Alignment.
If "a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch" didn't mean anything how could you then go and say it counted for Hatred: Tzeentch?
Its a YMDC discussion. The essential question is if "Daemon aligned with Tzeentch" is close enough to "Daemon of Tzeentch" to give the Knight the benefit of those special rules, specifically rerolling failed saves of 1. Its not cut and dry by any means.
2016/03/06 23:30:21
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
CrownAxe wrote: The point of the sentence is that they are aligned as with Tzeentch for things such as Hatred: Tzeentch Daemons or the warp storm table.
40k isn't math, the transitive property doesn't apply. If I said a model didn't feel fear that doesn't mean is has the Fearless rule. It has to specifically say you have Fearless to have that rule.
The CD codex doesn't refer to the "Daemon of x" as demonic alignments. The entry you are referring to is its own rule (the rule that prevents you from joining units of different gods togehter) and it just happens to be named Demonic Alignment.
If "a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch" didn't mean anything how could you then go and say it counted for Hatred: Tzeentch?
That may be but there is no being "close enough" to get a rule In order to get the rule it has to say you get the rule. Its more likely that it does nothing then that it actually gives you the Daemon of Tzeentch rule
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/06 23:30:42
2016/03/07 01:04:14
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
@ TK, yeah, I know the META, just played a GT in one of the most competitive areas of country (NOVA). Your army is an exploitative one, by your own admission most games arent finishing early enough, bringing an army that does extremely well in the missions (hence Renegades consistently high rankings at LVO) means that yes, your build is a bit exploitative. I'm not judging you for that, its competition, bring what you want. I just imagine youll sour the experiences of a lot of opponents because I cannot see that army getting through more than say 3 turns against a battle company. Or against most MSU styled lists. Its just too many moving parts.
As for the Knight. I feel as though you either saturate armor or you saturate infantry. In my mech lists I do not tend to have infantry units that arent meched up or high T, i.e. MC. In my foot lists I try my best not to include any mech. This means in those games I am usually invalidating a good portion of my opponents firepower by not presenting valid targets....
Since your list is so extreme on infantry I feel, to an extent, that having a dronestar/screamerstar is more powerful than having the IK. That IK can get movement blocked by both your army and your opponents, it can be one shotted by suicide melta squads... etc. Dronestar/Screamerstar isnt subject to quite as high a level of variance by very nature of not being a vehicle.
Bee beep boo baap
2016/03/07 09:13:49
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
I really like your list, looking forwards to this report! Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences I am a bit impressed that you managed squeezing the Knight in there with an Unending Host to be honest, haha.
@LValx
It's not right to say that it's exploitative as it's not made for intentionally playing slow. You're right that going past turn 3 against a Battle Company might be hard with a list like this, but that would just as much be the case if two BattleCompanies met each other. Many games dont go past turn 4 at a tournament, hence the recent discussions about lowering the point limits in the ITC. Psychic-heavy armies take a long time to play, Tau with Interceptor and Jump-shoot-jump armies take a long time to play, etc.
2016/03/07 21:20:52
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
GrafWattenburg wrote: I really like your list, looking forwards to this report! Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences I am a bit impressed that you managed squeezing the Knight in there with an Unending Host to be honest, haha.
@LValx
It's not right to say that it's exploitative as it's not made for intentionally playing slow. You're right that going past turn 3 against a Battle Company might be hard with a list like this, but that would just as much be the case if two BattleCompanies met each other. Many games dont go past turn 4 at a tournament, hence the recent discussions about lowering the point limits in the ITC. Psychic-heavy armies take a long time to play, Tau with Interceptor and Jump-shoot-jump armies take a long time to play, etc.
I may be being a bit harsh and as I said, no judgment from my part. I have seen the army played recently at a GT and it was a very slow army.
I do stand by what I said regarding the IK though. I'd personally rather take infantry based board control unit.
Bee beep boo baap
2016/03/10 05:52:47
Subject: Re:1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + Chaos Knight
Well its getting about time to start these damn battle reports....
I believe the mission for round 1 is:
My opponent is an Astra Militarium player....
He didnt have an army list for me but it is essentially mech guard... featuring no less then 5 leman russ's.... in kill points.
Tank Commander Vanquisher Battle Cannon
Battle Tank with Battle cannon
Battle Tank with Battle Cannon
Executioner with HB sponsons
Demolisher with HB sponsons
CCS with 4 plasma in chimera
Vet squad in chimera with flamers
Vet squad on foot
Imperial knight with Rapid fire battle cannon
Pre-game thoughts:
Spoiler:
nothing like playing against the one person who is still spamming pie plates... . He has the potential to remove several squads a turn and he has the initiative going into the game. The knight on knight battle will be key in this fight for whomevers knight dies first then the other can really wreck havoc upon the remainder of the force. His line of leman russes are going to be hard to bring down. I have infiltrated some melta gunners thanks to a nice warlord trait but they will have to foot slog their way to actual melta range. With this mission my opponent could actually just play defense and kill off my squads one by one... I am actually at a mismatch in this particular game. My biggest priority is the enemy knight... if I kill him off then I should be able to take down his leman russ's. BTW i took the portalglyph going into this game... figured the grimiore wouldnt help against enemy D hits anyway.... we will see if I regret that decision.
Your thoughts?
Game Turn 1:
Spoiler:
It is night fight this turn... my opponent moves over with his knight and the command squad and attempts to kill off my lascannon infantry squad that i infiltrated forward in the ruins. I take a safe amount of casualties but the guys hold their ground. On the left flank i make 3 out of 7 saves via night fight as my plasma squad sits in the open ready to rush forward. On the left flank i advance my melta squad up into the ruins trying to close the distance with his tanks and the objective back behind the ruins. Not much happens this turn. I do drop the portalglyph behind my knight and spawn 2 pink horrors... they get the ability to turn into a lord of change... i attempted to cast the spell but it failed and i lose a horror for the attempt.
Game Turn 2:
Spoiler:
My opponent continues to hammer the squad in the ruins on the right flank and attempts a long charge on my knight but it fails... on the left flank he fires his dmeolisher cannon into the ruins at the melta squad but they make some good saves... meanwhile my plasma squad foot slogging across the open fields begins to take a heavy toll from the battle cannons... The squad drops below half strength and I manage to give them a random leadership of 10 with a command vox that makes them very useful and worth keeping alive.
I bring in my reserves of a deepstriking nurglings and veteran squad. I also bring in a reserved melta squad on the far left flank and my squads multi-fire at his vet squad on the left flank as they continue to survive the torrent with their 4+ armor saves... The vet squad pops one melta shot at the knight and miss horribly. Shooting see's me shake his middle chimera and force the squad inside to snap fire... unfortunately i needed to destroy the vehicle as OBJ 1 in the center was my maelstrom.. he can contest later. My lone pink horror pumps up on warp juice and turns himself into a lord of change .
With his knight exposed I moved out and counter-charge the deadly knight ( then we proceed to use nerfed D in combat nova rules... because brain farts are a thing and I have never actually used Strength D in combat.... ever! This is actually my first time using a knight as well). Using nerfed Strength D against eachother we begin what will be a multi-turn slap fight where we both roll terrible to kill each other... At the bottom of turn 2 neither of us have lost a single unit.
Game Turn 3:
Spoiler:
He moves his command squad in the chimera back to fire at my 5 man vet squad in the open. In the center his chimera moves up and contest my objective in the center. On the left flank he begins to move his tanks towards the other flank but fires into my plasma vet squad and knocks it down to 3 models... one being the command net vox. He shoots my units on the left flank and gets one down to almost killed. The knight fight heats up as he has a chance to finish me off when i miss... he rolls a for damage and i breathe easy... we shall slap some more. He shoots my vet squad in the top right and kills the melta gunner and one other vet with snap firing dakka.
The lord of change vectors his chimera in the center and wrecks the vehicle with a lucky roll. The squad piles out the back and then nurglings move over to investigate... i charge with the weak melta squad first to eat all of the flamers... he kills off all but one of them and i fail the charge, the nurglings make it into the combat and actually lose combat by one... i make the leadership though and take no further damage. The knight fight continues with both knights now at 5 HPs of damage each. I manage to wreck his back right chimera nad the squad inside is pinned behind their vehicle. I advance a squad towards the center to help with holding that objective... I also spawn a unit of screamers this turn and send them to the middle to possibly contest or help with that combat in the next turn.
Game Turn 4:
Spoiler:
His tanks on the left flank finish off a melta squad and they go into reserves... he moves his commander tank and the two battle tanks towards the center and fires onto my advancing troops killing some of them off. He was attempting to kill off some of the screamers but they survive the one save they had to make... THE KNIGHT COMBAT REACHES A CATACLYSMIC CONCLUSION... after spending several combat scratching eachothers paint off they both decide to decapitate eachother in the same turn... the explosions do minimal damage to the troops on the ground but it is finally done. The knights are left in place for effect and unit morale as the giant machines of war fought to the death.
On my turn the unit of melta comes in on the far right flank with no targets within range. The lord of change lands on his side to guarantee line breaker. The screamers jump over to charge his leman russ squadron. I kill his warlord Command tank with shooting before the screamers charge in and destroy another tank. An infantry squad in the center charges into to aid the nurglings and helps them finish his squad in the middle.
At this point my opponent only has four kill points counting the knight as (3) and I have 8 with me also way ahead on maelstrom. With time close we call it here.
Post Game Results and Analysis:
Spoiler:
Chaos Renegades: 10
Astra Militarium: 0
Analysis: To be honest this game was a lot of bad rolling on both sides as we both failed to kill a unit before turn 3... I expected the game to be a lot bloodier for both sides. In the end he only had 2 leman russ on the left flank, a lone battle tank in the center, and a wounded ccs on the right flank... I had my entire army minus the knight still standing. He had some pretty bad luck finishing squads off as I had a squads with 1 HWT as sole surviver, 1 las gunner as sole survivor, and 3 joes as sole survivors. He just couldnt finish off the units he needed too. The portalglyph was actually worth it in this one... i forgot to roll it a couple of times but it almost gave me a free lord of change on turn one which is pretty clutch. We will see what I roll with the next game as it will be situation dependent on what upgrade i will need. Hopefully it isn't another wall of armor!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/13 04:35:45
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
CrownAxe wrote: D weapons only ignores invul on a 6. Against the other 4 results you still get invul so grimoire is totally useful against D-weapons
You are correct... tbh im happy with possibly trading a knight for a knight in this one and i think the portalglyph gives me more options. I wanted to test the portalglyph out to see how it flowed with the list as well. Seeing that the mission is kill points i didnt really think rhat through.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
LValx wrote: How many turns did all your games get to?
I know you keep asking TK this because you don't believe an Unending Host can be played quickly enough, but I ran a 200+ infantry count Renegade Host at Hammer in the New Year and had no problem finishing 4 out of 5 of my games. Even one where I redeployed about 600 additional renegades throughout the course of the game made it to the final randomly determined turn. I only had one game where it only went until 4, and I can fairly soundly say that it wasn't my fault. You can make of that what you will, but from experience time is not that big of a factor with this kind of list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/13 02:00:13
2016/03/12 23:42:52
Subject: 1850 ITC RTT Practice for GT Renegades of Vraks: The Unending Host Detachment + CK (Gm 1 Started)
LValx wrote:How many turns did all your games get to?
You will have to wait like the rest of them.
Pythius Primus wrote:
LValx wrote: How many turns did all your games get to?
I know you keep asking TK this because you don't believe an Unending Host can be played quickly enough, but I ran a 200+ infantry count Renegade Host at Hammer in the New Year and had no problem finishing 4 out of 5 of my games. Even one where I redeployed about 600 additional renegades throughout the course of the game made it to the final randomly determined turn. I only had one game where it only went until 4, and I can fairly soundly say that it wasn't my fault. You can make of that what you will, but from experience time is not that big of a factor with this kind of list.
As seen above in the first game... the games are pretty much over by turn 4. This is just the nature of the beast. Doesn't matter which army I use... unless it is the finals the game is either won or lost by turn 4. Not saying all of my games end on turn 4 in reality most do not but it is a forgone conclusion in most of my games from that point forward.
Hell at adepticon I expect games to be over by the bottom of turn 2 thanks to the lack or restriction on ranged D and Wraithknights... I Have 7 unnerfed range D shots on turn one alone... It is going to get stupid fast.
Agonizer wrote:
LValx wrote: How many turns did all your games get to?
You need to chill out and lay off TK. This kind of army is growing in popularity.
I showed up to an event a few weeks ago where 30% of the field were renegade players.... its refreshing to see a change in the meta. Anytime there is a change there is always resistance. Adepticon still wont allowed renegades but they will allow dual wraithknight armies...
lucian the dead one wrote:i think tomb king might put alot in reserves i hope and let his knight wreak some face first them go for the kill
I did reserve 3 units but I needed the rest of my firepower to potentially bring his knight down.
Almost forgot @THREAD:
I emailed Reece and company about the chaos knight ruling:
My message:
Spoiler:
The ruling that people need clarification is the last sentence of each type of god.
Example here is Daemon Knight of Tzeentch:
A model with this special rule gains the Daemon and Hatred (Daemons of Nurgle)
special rules. In addition, the Daemon Knight
may re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and its heavy stubbers have the Soul
Blaze special rule. It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch.
Mainly the part, "It also counts as being a Daemon aligned with Tzeentch."
RAW is pretty clear that it is a daemon of tzeentch... however, people are arguing that it just says it is a daemon aligned with tzeentch and not an actual tzeentch daemon of tzeentch for purposes of getting re-rolled saves of 1 and other benefits presented to models of the various gods while being taken in a chaos daemons army.
Need a ruling on this pretty quickly if possible... i personally believe it is pretty cut and dry that its a damn daemon of tzeentch... either way an caption covering it in the FAQ would reduce a lot of headache. I know you all played it as a daemon of that particular god at the LVO.
FLG:
Spoiler:
-------- Original message --------
From: contact@frontlinegaming.org Date: 3/10/2016 10:37 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Brett <YIFORGOTTEN@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Chaos Knight Ruling for ITC FAQ
We'll add it to the interim FAQ, but we've been playing it as yes.
Reece
So that settles that argument for just about every event im participating in this year... I would check with your TO in not ITC events but for ITC events with the ITC FAQ it will be ruled as a Daemon of X God.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/13 04:44:52
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
If 2+3 is 5 then why wouldnt 3 + 2 also be 5? Not understanding why people are coming to their conclusions other then they just think it may be overpowered.... If the sentence doesnt give them tzeentch then what is the point of that sentence.
I am a bit impressed that you managed squeezing the Knight in there with an Unending Host to be honest, haha.
nothing like playing against the one person who is still spamming pie plates... 
. He has the potential to remove several squads a turn and he has the initiative going into the game. The knight on knight battle will be key in this fight for whomevers knight dies first then the other can really wreck havoc upon the remainder of the force. His line of leman russes are going to be hard to bring down. I have infiltrated some melta gunners thanks to a nice warlord trait but they will have to foot slog their way to actual melta range. With this mission my opponent could actually just play defense and kill off my squads one by one... I am actually at a mismatch in this particular game. My biggest priority is the enemy knight... if I kill him off then I should be able to take down his leman russ's. 
for damage and i breathe easy... we shall slap some more. He shoots my vet squad in the top right and kills the melta gunner and one other vet with snap firing dakka.
