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Just a note on stasis tech. Lexicanum states the following:

Lexicanum wrote:A Stasis Field is a name for both a device and the effect it causes. Essentially a time-warp generator, stasis fields create breaks in the normal flow of space-time within their area of effect, slowing massively the progress of causality. The closer one is to the centre of the stasis-field, the slower time appears to move; a single moment can take so long to play out inside a stasis field that it appears frozen to observers outside the effected area. Because the contents of a stasis field are divorced from the normal passage of time, it is effectively impossible to alter the conditions of the inside of the field in any way. This makes whatever is caught in the area of effect almost completely frozen and unable to be harmed.
Stasis fields are normally used to contain people and objects in effectively unchanging conditions. Possibly the most famous stasis field is that which encloses the body of the Ultramarines Primarch Roboute Guilliman, who was interred in a stasis field upon the moment of death. Eversor Assassins are kept in stasis chambers when not active in the field.

From this, it seems that stasis fields do not in fact stop time, rather they massively alter how time runs in a particular area in comparison to the surrounding area. Hence, when a stasis bomb is thrown, instead of simply stopping all time everywhere by virtue of the stasis field being unconstrained by the bomb casing after detonation, the effects of the stasis field diminish further from the epicentre. Therefore, as stasis bombs can be used tactically, it's evident that the stasis field works on a different principle than simply stopping all time as time is not locked to space, but run parallel to each other (If our current understanding is to be believed). So, if a Stasis Field does not stop time, but merely slows it down to the point that the viewer is unaware that time is still progressing albeit at a minute rate, then it is possible that Guilliman could be healing in theory (Rejoice/Despair at will). However, this still brings about the question of how he is healing. Currently, there is no known medical procedure to counter-act the poison (I suspect because it is Chaotic in origin) so the poison remains in his body. So, if the above theory is true regarding Stasis, then Guilliman would in reality be dying at the rate of a fraction of realtime.

No doubt, somebody will question where the info came from. Seems the citation is Warhammer 40,000 Battle Manual - a 1st Edition rules expansion written, amongst others, by Rick Priestly. Make of that what you will regarding retcons and author veracity.

He doesnt need to go into a dread. I know this funny little lodge on a backwater called Davin, they do Primarch repairs, fixed one of his bros, Harry, or Horace or something...

+1 for Davin - I heard they do upgrades too

Is it possible to communicate via telepathy while in stasis? im surprised a librarian or ten haven at least tried to contact him or check for a pulse.

Warpig1815 wrote:Just a note on stasis tech. Lexicanum states the following:

Lexicanum wrote:A Stasis Field is a name for both a device and the effect it causes. Essentially a time-warp generator, stasis fields create breaks in the normal flow of space-time within their area of effect, slowing massively the progress of causality. The closer one is to the centre of the stasis-field, the slower time appears to move; a single moment can take so long to play out inside a stasis field that it appears frozen to observers outside the effected area. Because the contents of a stasis field are divorced from the normal passage of time, it is effectively impossible to alter the conditions of the inside of the field in any way. This makes whatever is caught in the area of effect almost completely frozen and unable to be harmed.
Stasis fields are normally used to contain people and objects in effectively unchanging conditions. Possibly the most famous stasis field is that which encloses the body of the Ultramarines Primarch Roboute Guilliman, who was interred in a stasis field upon the moment of death. Eversor Assassins are kept in stasis chambers when not active in the field.

From this, it seems that stasis fields do not in fact stop time, rather they massively alter how time runs in a particular area in comparison to the surrounding area. Hence, when a stasis bomb is thrown, instead of simply stopping all time everywhere by virtue of the stasis field being unconstrained by the bomb casing after detonation, the effects of the stasis field diminish further from the epicentre. Therefore, as stasis bombs can be used tactically, it's evident that the stasis field works on a different principle than simply stopping all time as time is not locked to space, but run parallel to each other (If our current understanding is to be believed). So, if a Stasis Field does not stop time, but merely slows it down to the point that the viewer is unaware that time is still progressing albeit at a minute rate, then it is possible that Guilliman could be healing in theory (Rejoice/Despair at will). However, this still brings about the question of how he is healing. Currently, there is no known medical procedure to counter-act the poison (I suspect because it is Chaotic in origin) so the poison remains in his body. So, if the above theory is true regarding Stasis, then Guilliman would in reality be dying at the rate of a fraction of realtime.

No doubt, somebody will question where the info came from. Seems the citation is Warhammer 40,000 Battle Manual - a 1st Edition rules expansion written, amongst others, by Rick Priestly. Make of that what you will regarding retcons and author veracity.

I feel like that if this is correct and the stasis field doesn't really stop time completely, then surely Roboute would be dead by now. I mean, it has been 10,000 years (give or take) in real time since he was put in stasis.

Ace From Outer Space wrote:He doesnt need to go into a dread. I know this funny little lodge on a backwater called Davin, they do Primarch repairs, fixed one of his bros, Harry, or Horace or something...

10/10 the Davin-ites know what they're doing. They'll sort it out

Desubot wrote:Is it possible to communicate via telepathy while in stasis? im surprised a librarian or ten haven at least tried to contact him or check for a pulse.

Well if time is 100% frozen, would that even work? I feel like that would be akin to trying to draw blood from a stone. Also, if time was moving ever-so-slowly in the stasis field like Warpig1815 said, then my argument cycles back to whether or not he would have died by now, but if he hasn't, then I definitely share your sentiment.

Well that's the warp and psychic power for you. it really never does follow the rules of physics now does it

Im just wondering if it was attempted or even attempted.

edit : I know a primarch an be read. at least the BL books show its been done.

Haha when in foubt: Warp magic haha

I guess it could work. Reading the Primarch's mind like a still image rather than flowing thoughts. Assessing his physical state using psykic ability. End of the day we are talking about psykers in a fictional universe, so if you can make it sond semi-logical and on par with the fluff, it can work haha

In Angel Exterminatus the Iron Hands Captain kept in stasis with some unknown type of tech attached to him was able to heal a GSW wound. Tho they were also in the middle of the eye of terror as well so....
You also have to factor in that the primarchs were engineered and their bodies may have a connection to the warp itself.
Also considering their exceptional ability to heal, if you were able to get past the poison to be interred in a dreadnought he technically should just be able to heal back to normal.... and hopefully not be locked in a dreadnought when it happens lol

If the Kinebranch Anathame were to be recovered and analyzed by the Ultramarines and/or AdMech, it would probably be more than possible to neutralize the poison (with out without Psychic assistance). Though I definitely agree with Blitzen, in that a Dreadnought would be completely unnecessary for a Primarch.

To be fair he is a very practical guy.

Id assume he would rather be leading and moving troops in the way he feels efficient over just letting them gak around all over the place.

It would give the Imperium something more to rally around and beat the traitors.....

or the HloT will sit there and do everything in there power to keep him from doing so as to not pull power from them.. ya know that grim dark gak and stuff.

 dusara217 wrote:
If the Kinebranch Anathame were to be recovered and analyzed by the Ultramarines and/or AdMech, it would probably be more than possible to neutralize the poison (with out without Psychic assistance).

I don't think they would be able to, but even if we assume they can, then it would take them a hell of a long time (i.e. potentially centuries or even millennium - not that they wouldn't spend that time to find it). The reason I say this is because of the following:

Warhammer 40K Wiki wrote:If the name of a target was spoken to the blade, the weapon would become totally inimical to that being on an almost molecular level, producing poisons and toxins tailored specifically to them, while also guiding itself towards its target.

Also, I think Blitzen has the right idea with the bodies of the Primarchs being connected to the Warp. I mean, the means by which the Emperor used to create them involved using power stolen from the Chaos Gods (hence Warp power and a connection to it).


Ah... if only Roboute was a Perpetual, then this wouldn't be (as much of) a problem. But alas, only Vulkan inherited the trait.

He would die to quickly before they got him in there

 dusara217 wrote:
If the Kinebranch Anathame were to be recovered and analyzed by the Ultramarines and/or AdMech, it would probably be more than possible to neutralize the poison (with out without Psychic assistance). Though I definitely agree with Blitzen, in that a Dreadnought would be completely unnecessary for a Primarch.

The Sons of horus apothecary was unable to figure it out while he had it as the Anathame is sentient and changes at will but he also only had it for a short time. Also I was under the assumption Erebus broke the Anathame into 7 smaller anathames?
I could be confusing the wrong weapon.

Blitzen the Solitaire wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
If the Kinebranch Anathame were to be recovered and analyzed by the Ultramarines and/or AdMech, it would probably be more than possible to neutralize the poison (with out without Psychic assistance). Though I definitely agree with Blitzen, in that a Dreadnought would be completely unnecessary for a Primarch.

The Sons of horus apothecary was unable to figure it out while he had it as the Anathame is sentient and changes at will but he also only had it for a short time.

He had it for a few weeks, which is still a reasonable amount of time but still very short (relatively speaking). He also got absolutely nowhere with it - he didn't even begin to understand how it worked. Perks of it being a Chaos-imbued weapon, I supposed.

The blade which slit his throat is poisoned. When he was placed in stasis everything stopped, including the spread of poison to his body, preventing him from dying. If he were taken out of stasis he would die.

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
The blade which slit his throat is poisoned. When he was placed in stasis everything stopped, including the spread of poison to his body, preventing him from dying. If he were taken out of stasis he would die.

Ehh, he's a primarch. Lorgar took a plasma blastgun to the face and survived. I find it amusing that people poo-poo the idea of Guilliman healing in stasis as too unrealistic.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
The blade which slit his throat is poisoned. When he was placed in stasis everything stopped, including the spread of poison to his body, preventing him from dying. If he were taken out of stasis he would die.

Ehh, he's a primarch. Lorgar took a plasma blastgun to the face and survived. I find it amusing that peoples poo-poo the idea of Guilliman healing in stasis as too unrealistic.

For me, it's more the fact that the poison that's in his system is essentially tailor made for him but the nature of the Anathame. If it were a regular (albiet powerful) poison, he would still be able to heal, regardless of whether or not he was in stasis.

There is the political issue as well. The High Lords of Terra (or whatever GW calls them now) would immediately obliterate the chapter and him.

A live primarch is much more of threat to control than an ork waugh or Demon Lords in the Eye. The assassins would come in waves and if that didn't work the chapter would be declared heretic (for some made up reason or none at all) and hunted down with zesty enthusiasm.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
The blade which slit his throat is poisoned. When he was placed in stasis everything stopped, including the spread of poison to his body, preventing him from dying. If he were taken out of stasis he would die.

Ehh, he's a primarch. Lorgar took a plasma blastgun to the face and survived. I find it amusing that people poo-poo the idea of Guilliman healing in stasis as too unrealistic.

For me it's not a matter of it being unrealistic, it is 40k after all. It's just a matter of it being kind of silly in the sense that after however many thousands of years he's been in stasis, they still can't tell whether or not he is healing. That, to me, indicates that he is in fact NOT healing.

Frazzled wrote:There is the political issue as well. The High Lords of Terra (or whatever GW calls them now) would immediately obliterate the chapter and him.

A live primarch is much more of threat to control than an ork waugh or Demon Lords in the Eye. The assassins would come in waves and if that didn't work the chapter would be declared heretic (for some made up reason or none at all) and hunted down with zesty enthusiasm.

For a group of people who are supposed to be ruling the entire Imperium, I don't think they'd have such a childish and foolish knee-jerk reaction, not to mention that flies in the face of all logical sense. First of all, a living, breathing, conscious Primarch represents one of the best chances the Imperium has against any of its enemies - especially Chaos. Also, if he were to be removed from stasis - especially alive - it would allow some of the purest geneseed stock since the last of the loyalist Primarchs disappeared after the HH. Thirdly, I don't think that the Primarch would be so naive as to think himself above even cooperating with the Council of Terra, which means that they may not be able to control him, but at least they have the most powerful asset they could possibly have helping them (short of the other Primarchs returning as well and/or the Emperor rising from the Golden Throne).

Then there's the issue of wiping out the Ultramarines and many of their Successor Chapters (at least their confirmed successors). I doubt they would take it lightly the council intentionally killed their Primarch. Not to mention there's Ultramar....

Why do you think the Council of Terra would consider him a threat and/or Roboute would make himself a threat? Because either case doesn't make sense to me.

Orblivion wrote:It's just a matter of it being kind of silly in the sense that after however many thousands of years he's been in stasis, they still can't tell whether or not he is healing. That, to me, indicates that he is in fact NOT healing.

Not being able to tell is not the same as it not happening at all, though I can appreciate and agree with your conclusion that he isn't healing. Given that times isn't 100% frozen in stasis (though the speed at which it operates is minuscule at best), I'm almost sure he is dying from the poison rather than healing or maintaining his current state.

 IllumiNini wrote:

Frazzled wrote:There is the political issue as well. The High Lords of Terra (or whatever GW calls them now) would immediately obliterate the chapter and him.

A live primarch is much more of threat to control than an ork waugh or Demon Lords in the Eye. The assassins would come in waves and if that didn't work the chapter would be declared heretic (for some made up reason or none at all) and hunted down with zesty enthusiasm.

For a group of people who are supposed to be ruling the entire Imperium, I don't think they'd have such a childish and foolish knee-jerk reaction, not to mention that flies in the face of all logical sense. First of all, a living, breathing, conscious Primarch represents one of the best chances the Imperium has against any of its enemies - especially Chaos. Also, if he were to be removed from stasis - especially alive - it would allow some of the purest geneseed stock since the last of the loyalist Primarchs disappeared after the HH. Thirdly, I don't think that the Primarch would be so naive as to think himself above even cooperating with the Council of Terra, which means that they may not be able to control him, but at least they have the most powerful asset they could possibly have helping them (short of the other Primarchs returning as well and/or the Emperor rising from the Golden Throne).

Then there's the issue of wiping out the Ultramarines and many of their Successor Chapters (at least their confirmed successors). I doubt they would take it lightly the council intentionally killed their Primarch. Not to mention there's Ultramar....

Why do you think the Council of Terra would consider him a threat and/or Roboute would make himself a threat? Because either case doesn't make sense to me.

Orblivion wrote:It's just a matter of it being kind of silly in the sense that after however many thousands of years he's been in stasis, they still can't tell whether or not he is healing. That, to me, indicates that he is in fact NOT healing.

Not being able to tell is not the same as it not happening at all, though I can appreciate and agree with your conclusion that he isn't healing. Given that times isn't 100% frozen in stasis (though the speed at which it operates is minuscule at best), I'm almost sure he is dying from the poison rather than healing or maintaining his current state.

I think you underestimate the human nature. the second the HLoT feel their influence would be taken from them, even slightly where the 500 worlds of ultramar start worshiping or following rowboat, is when the assassins come out to try and take care of it quietly. ironically rowboat is the kinda primearch that didn't even want to really rule. he would rather drag in another primearch to rule imprium secundus while he ran off fighting or whatever. but he is also has a ton of pride for the emperor and his legacy. so seeing the inefficient system in place now will probably be the driving force for him to unseat the HLoTs power.

You would have the eccilarchy in an uproar and half the inquisition(which would include the grey knights). This is considering how they reacted just by being in the presence of Bjorn the Fellhanded in "The Emperor's Gift" and that is just 1 space marine revered because he walked in the age of the Emperor.
Not saying they wouldn't try but if they did welcome to the next imperial civil war.

Look at it from their perspective.
Some guy appears claiming to effectively be the son of god.

He was dead. Now he's not.

Humans don't do that.

Chaos does all kinds of weird stuff.

Logically he's a demon prince masquerading as RG. We'd better wipe them out to protect the IOM being torn apart.

Alternatively: dead primarch re-appears. Last time a non-demon prince primarch walked around the IOM was shattered. Best to nuke them from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

Desubot wrote:I think you underestimate the human nature. the second the HLoT feel their influence would be taken from them, even slightly where the 500 worlds of ultramar start worshiping or following rowboat, is when the assassins come out to try and take care of it quietly. ironically rowboat is the kinda primearch that didn't even want to really rule. he would rather drag in another primearch to rule imprium secundus while he ran off fighting or whatever. but he is also has a ton of pride for the emperor and his legacy. so seeing the inefficient system in place now will probably be the driving force for him to unseat the HLoTs power.

Maybe I do, but it still sounds extreme to me. It sounds like a bit much of an over-reaction.

Blitzen the Solitaire wrote:You would have the eccilarchy in an uproar and half the inquisition(which would include the grey knights). This is considering how they reacted just by being in the presence of Bjorn the Fellhanded in "The Emperor's Gift" and that is just 1 space marine revered because he walked in the age of the Emperor. Not saying they wouldn't try but if they did welcome to the next imperial civil war.

I'm not entirely convinced that they'd be stupid enough to set into motion events that would bring about Civil War: Round 3, especially starting Civil War over assassinating what I think is (one of) their best chance(s) at a more unified Imperium.

Frazzled wrote:Look at it from their perspective.
Some guy appears claiming to effectively be the son of god.

He was dead. Now he's not.

Humans don't do that.

Chaos does all kinds of weird stuff.

Logically he's a demon prince masquerading as RG. We'd better wipe them out to protect the IOM being torn apart.

Alternatively: dead primarch re-appears. Last time a non-demon prince primarch walked around the IOM was shattered. Best to nuke them from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

Not claiming - is. He's a Primarch. Anyone would be more than stupid to think that The Emperor being his father is anything but the truth. At the very least, the HLoT should know this. Should other people know this? Maybe; it depends on how high up they are in the chain and how good their education was. It just seems like that would be such a weird fact to forget.

As for being dead and then alive, the only way that's happening is if the HLoT find a solution and authorise its enactment, so if they're that surprised that he's alive as a result of something they did, then they don't deserve to be one of the HLoT. Also, he's technically not human, so it doesn't really matter whether or not humans do that.

So to summarise, he's a being of super-human capabilities who is know to the HLoT to be the son of the Emperor and the only way he's getting out of that stasis pod is if the HLoT themselves authorise a solution to be enacted, so I think your logic is rather flawed.

 Desubot wrote:
I think you underestimate the human nature. the second the HLoT feel their influence would be taken from them, even slightly where the 500 worlds of ultramar start worshiping or following rowboat, is when the assassins come out to try and take care of it quietly. ironically rowboat is the kinda primearch that didn't even want to really rule. he would rather drag in another primearch to rule imprium secundus while he ran off fighting or whatever. but he is also has a ton of pride for the emperor and his legacy. so seeing the inefficient system in place now will probably be the driving force for him to unseat the HLoTs power.

I never bought that Bobby G did not want to rule. He gave up on Terra way too quickly, didn't even try to get there but straight away went "Welp Terra is gone, lets setup Imperium Secondus. Lucky I've been practicing with Ultramar since I was born."
Even placing the other Primarchs as rulers seemed like a smokescreen. He was totally going to rule until they turned up, and he was such a great strategist that he knew neither the Lion nor Sangy would be able to resist heading back to Terra. And then who would be left in charge again, little old Bobby G.
I think he pushed the Codex so hard because he knew HE had been tested and HE had failed.

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

I never bought that Bobby G did not want to rule. .

That novel is only 3 years old, lol. How long is "never" for you, lol? Before [i[Unremembered Novel[/i], Imperium Secundus had never been a thing.

Before that, the only thing we knew about the Ultramarines in the Heresy was that they were too late for Terra, but Guilliman saved the Imperium in the aftermath of the Scouring. And that, eventually, he gave up his seat on the High Lords and went back to being the master of the now-chapter-strength Ultramarines. That doesn't really sound like something somebody would do if they were trying to seize power.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
That novel is only 3 years old, lol. How long is "never" for you, lol? Before [i[Unremembered Novel[/i] Imperium Secundus had never been a thing.

Come on, 3 years is aggggggggeeeeeeeessssssss. Kidding, point taken. I just checked and its only 2 years old so thats even worse.
A more accurate statement would have been that I never liked Bobby G and that novel just confirmed my distaste.
But all his noble power avoiding steps were taken after Horus was taken out and had interred the Big E into his golden coffin but kept him alive. While there was some doubt on the old chap still kicking Bobby G was all about the personal gain. It may be that his actions woke him up to his destructive desire to rule, which is why he was the one pushing so hard to split the legions. Less "no man should have this much power" and more "I definitely cant handle the lure of this much power"

Ahriman could fix him.

 Chaos Legionnaire wrote:
Ahriman could fix him.

And that would be all well and good if he wasn't a traitor. Though the possibilities that could have been realised if Magnus and the Thousand Sons hadn't turned traitor would be near-endless, the possibility of healing Roboute not excluded.

Oh come on, give him a chance. He has the best of intentions, I assure you.
What could possibly go wrong?