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Which should you usually do first, dry brushing or washes?

er it depends. generally speaking you are washing before drybrushing but there are some cases where i can justify washing after drybrushing.

you gota add more to give a proper answer.

your typical tabletop GW recommended method is

Base coat
Wash
Base coat
Highlights
Edge highlights

You can replace the highlights with drybrushing if a part requires it such as chainmail

painting chainmail would look like

Base coat
Wash
Drybrush

your question also makes me think you drybrush almost anything. is it safe to assume you have fully drybrushed an entire model for 'highlights'?

edit - relax neckbeards i mean no harm i suppose it could be read in a negative way but it was a thought that crossed my mind due to someone i knew doing this and he had a similar question when he started

hasdrubalsbrother wrote:
Which should you usually do first, dry brushing or washes?

It depends what you're painting, drybrushing before a wash will make the drybrush blend more (and dull it) while washing first will make the drybrush a lot more obvious

Be nice, eos. There was absolutely no need or purpose to the tail end of your post.

@OP: Generally you wash to shade and drybrush to bring up or highlight. So if you wash over drybrushing, you are undoing work. It can be done, and it can look cool. But most often you want to base > wash > drybrush.
But it's your model, as long as the outcome is what you enjoy, mix it up.

Come now BC, what better way is there for one to feel better about their mediocre painting "talent" than to belittle another asking for advice?

I keep a bottom drawer for making myself feel better. Forums is for helping.

I just remembered that I keep this stashed for example's sake.
washes are generally not the last stage of a model. As you can see here, unless it's over white, the wash darkens get tone beneath, so you would want to highlight after.

Click to get a clearer view:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Be nice, eos. There was absolutely no need or purpose to the tail end of your post.

@OP: Generally you wash to shade and drybrush to bring up or highlight. So if you wash over drybrushing, you are undoing work. It can be done, and it can look cool. But most often you want to base > wash > drybrush.
But it's your model, as long as the outcome is what you enjoy, mix it up.

what? nothing was mean. its an educated guess that leads me to further understand his problem...

I would think wash, then dry brush. However if your dry brushing comes out a little too bold (e.g., the model is too bright now, etc.) then you can wash some more to restore the darker color. The order you do these will change the way your model will look.

kb_lock wrote:
Come now BC, what better way is there for one to feel better about their mediocre painting "talent" than to belittle another asking for advice?

man everyones so angry and presumptuous. also I'd hardly call my painting "mediocre" i was just trying to understand his question. to properly answer a question is to understand the question. If he drybrushes entire sections of a model that you normally do not drybrush (i see this a lot) then his question makes a bit of sense and his problem is easily fixed. it would be impossible to answer his question if this was he case and you assumed it wasn't so my questions valid

why else would he ask if he was not doing this? also it could be someone else who taught him that. I've come across so many bad advice givers that just tell people to drybrush entire models or dip them, whatever else so it could just as easily be misinformation

eosgreen wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Be nice, eos. There was absolutely no need or purpose to the tail end of your post.

@OP: Generally you wash to shade and drybrush to bring up or highlight. So if you wash over drybrushing, you are undoing work. It can be done, and it can look cool. But most often you want to base > wash > drybrush.
But it's your model, as long as the outcome is what you enjoy, mix it up.

what? nothing was mean. its an educated guess that leads me to further understand his problem...

There was no problem, just a query. It's not up to us to judge what anyone's doing, but to simply stick to answering what was actually being asked.

If the OP paints by firing it out of a car wash bottle, that's not anyone's business until he or she posts it here, and nor is it a "problem".

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

eosgreen wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Be nice, eos. There was absolutely no need or purpose to the tail end of your post.

@OP: Generally you wash to shade and drybrush to bring up or highlight. So if you wash over drybrushing, you are undoing work. It can be done, and it can look cool. But most often you want to base > wash > drybrush.
But it's your model, as long as the outcome is what you enjoy, mix it up.

what? nothing was mean. its an educated guess that leads me to further understand his problem...

There was no problem, just a query. It's not up to us to judge what anyone's doing, but to simply stick to answering what was actually being asked.

If the OP paints by firing it out of a car wash bottle, that's not anyone's business until he or she posts it here, and nor is it a "problem".

ok but if you have no idea how the OP is painting then how do you answer his question? i was asking more questions to better answer his broadly stated question.

I answered his question completely in 90 percent of scenarios but then asked a further 2 questions in case this was not his issue which my exp tells me is totally possible. by all means look for a fire tho lol idc anymore

Heck i say drybrush the entire model if you want, dip it, spray it, put greenstuff all over it, its your model after all. Im sure if somebody is a master at drybrushing it would look very awesome if rhe entire model is drybrushed, infact my next marine i will deybrush the entire thing, its my model after all. Thanks for that shading tutorial bc, where can one find more pics like that?

I scanned it from an aged issue of White Dwarf, I'm afraid. There may be similar things floating around in the How to Citadel ranges, but I don't own them.

Meh.. seems 2016 is shaping up to be the year everyone was offended part 2...

That said, depending on what sort of effect you're going for, you can wash and dry-brush in either order.

Adding a wash after dry-brushing will knock back the highlight effect but with also help to blend things together, and somewhat get rid of the sometimes "Scratchy" appearance Dry-brushing can leave behind.

Washing before a dry-brush will simply help make the highlights stand out more, and give you more contrast.

There have been Cases. Especially with Reds where I will base coat, dry-brush, ad a wash, dry-brush with a different color and go over that with a glaze to get the highlights I want. Because I hate edgeing with a brush.

So, if you're asking which one everyone else does first? Well there's my answer.

If you're asking what YOU should be doing? The right answer is doing whichever order gives you the look you want, but neither order is the "proper" order.

I tend use both combinations of drybrush then wash, and the other way round.

For example I painted a ton of ork infantry fairly quickly with a bright drybrushed highlight then a wash all over.

If I am taking more care on a model I will wash then drybrush up highlights starting with the base colour and getting lighter. Drybrushing a whole model can be effective, such as on my rhino here:

 Icurus wrote:
I tend use both combinations of drybrush then wash, and the other way round.

For example I painted a ton of ork infantry fairly quickly with a bright drybrushed highlight then a wash all over.

If I am taking more care on a model I will wash then drybrush up highlights starting with the base colour and getting lighter. Drybrushing a whole model can be effective, such as on my rhino here:

I know it's OT but worth saying, I've never seen the smoke Launchers on a Rhino put there, but I like it.. I might have steal that myself.

just to add my two cents, if you do decide to wash after you drybrush, be careful, I've found it can remove pigment at times.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:

Adding a wash after dry-brushing will knock back the highlight effect but with also help to blend things together, and somewhat get rid of the sometimes "Scratchy" appearance Dry-brushing can leave behind.

Washing before a dry-brush will simply help make the highlights stand out more, and give you more contrast.

There have been Cases. Especially with Reds where I will base coat, dry-brush, ad a wash, dry-brush with a different color and go over that with a glaze to get the highlights I want. Because I hate edgeing with a brush.

So, if you're asking which one everyone else does first? Well there's my answer.

If you're asking what YOU should be doing? The right answer is doing whichever order gives you the look you want, but neither order is the "proper" order.

This.
You can use your washes as make shift glazes, but a glaze that will dull down your highlight. Glazes typically add a filter type effect and adjust all the tones of the colour to blend them together. Where washes are typically used to add shades, darker tones to the recesses.

Its very effective using it afterwards and I've used it when I felt my highlight was more severe than I wanted but be warned it can shift the tone of the colour quite dramatically. I've used it on reds too, particularly cloaks to nice effect.


And as someone else said. Your model, you do what you think looks good and let us know how it goes. Also, let us see some pics =)

Rule 1: There are no rules. Different methods and applications will work on different minis, you need to judge it on a case-by-case basis. The texture and overall look you're going for will dictate what methods you use and in what order, in some cases that'll be wash first, in others, drybrush first, in others, only one of those.

However, I will add that you can actually get good results with a heavy drybrush or three, then a wash to tie those together, then another, lighter round of drybrushing to give more subtle highlights. For example, this Genestealer:

Has 3 layers of increasingly light (hue-wise) drybrushes on both the white and black areas, then a very thin purple wash on the white (ties the layers together and adds some colour tint) and black wash on the black, then a further light-blue-grey drybrush or two on the areas that needed more highlighting. The result is you get a very insectoid texture, intentionally rough but without clear divides between the layers, which suits the mini.

Meanwhile, this Skaven has mostly only drybrushes on the leather areas to get that rough texture,while the armour is a mix of drybrushes and washes to get all kinds of colours and textures as if it's rusty and mouldy and covered in filth.


Hope that's of some help! If you can tell us what exactly you're painting, we can be more specific in which way to go about things.

Washing (like glazing) after drybrushing will smooth out the drybrush, but dull down the effect.

If I'm painting a cockpit for an aircraft, I'll often wash first (to create contrast and make it look a bit dirty) then drybrush a lighter version of the basecoat (to make it look like the dirt and has been wiped away on hard edges and perhaps the paint has scratched a little too).

Most other things I'll drybrush first and then wash (or glaze) to tone down the contrast between the drybrush and the basecoat.

But it really depends what you're doing. I painted some Space Marines I thought looked decent by doing drybrush -> wash -> drybrush -> glaze -> drybrush -> glaze. Time consuming, but gave a nice look to my eye.

Duncan washed this Skaven Clanrat after drybrushing its fur. It all depends on the results you're looking for.

From what I've seen and read, wash first, then drybrush.

Unless you're doing larger vehicles and then no wash at all.

I'm a newbie, so maybe not, LOL.

It varies a lot, and some people prefer different techniques.

I (generally) do a undercoat -> basecoat -> highlight (or two, or three) -> finish with a glaze or wash to bring it all together. The colors I use in the basecoat and highlights are deliberately bright, so the wash brings them down to the desired shade. This is especially desirable when drybrushing, as drybrushing can easily result in a 'dusty' appearance. A final glaze cuts down the 'dusty' appearance quite a bit.

But sometimes I do undercoat -> wash -> drybrush (or two), for things that are heavily textured and SHOULD look dusty.

 Ghaz wrote:
Duncan washed this Skaven Clanrat after drybrushing its fur. It all depends on the results you're looking for.

As i recall he also demonstrated a wash after drybrush as an alternate Ultramarine painting method in a recent how to vid - he did it side by side with a traditional base, wash, highlight marine.
I thought both looked really good.

But it would help us help you if you gave us example models you want to paint.

First of all, there's nothing wrong with drybrushing. Sure, you won't win a Golden Demon, and often it's not as clean or crisp and painting in the edges, but drybrushing can look fantastic, and it's a skill every painter should master.

I just posted this on another thread, but here's another sequence you can try. I'm just going to use grey as an example, since it's a color most of us are familiar with

1. Prime Black
2. Basecoat Skavenblight Dinge
3. Drybrush Dawnstone with a big drybrush
4. Drybrush Administratum Grey more sparingly with a smaller drybrush
5. Wash Nuhln Oil
6. Drybrush Administratum Grey again, with a small drybrush, very selectively.
7. Now, go and paint in the details.

It's a tiny bit more work (because you're drybrushing the brighter grey twice), and the end result will be a little darker than if you washed first. But, on a small model, the wash after the first batch of drybrushing really helps to soften any brushstrokes.

Also, note that I used Skavenblight Dinge instead of Mechanicus Standard Grey. The reason is that Skavenblight has a little bit of color in it, and it's darker, making this particular model seem less monochromatic, and offers more contrast. But YMMV; use whatever color suits your fancy

Finally, note that I mentioned doing all the details after the drybrush is done. This is just so that you don't wipe out your hard work -- which is really easy to do with a drybrush when you go at it!

If you wash after drybrush it smoothes out the colour transition, especially if you've been quite strong with the drybrushing. Another advantage of drybrush before wash is you don't have to wait a long time for the wash to dry before you can start dry brushing.

Washing first will give a brighter effect over all.

You could drybrush, wash, then drybrush/highlight edges for the benefits of both, but obviously that is more time consuming.