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Hi i need a little help.

The opponent who I usually play against always brings a command squad in a drop pod. In the commad squad he got chapter master scriptor apotecarius a guys with plasma weapons . In the past I could deal with it. but since the new SM codex the survivability of this squad got to a level that is just ridiculous. The chapter master got a 2+ AS, 3+ inv, 2+ FnP(iron hands, shield and apotecarius), it will not die special rule and a hammer

So how would you deal with this unit as a necron player?

I got two ideas 1. take a 15-20 model warriors unit and bind them. Or 2. try to avoid them and shoot S 8-10 weapons at them.

regards nordsturmking

You could tarpit that with Flayed Ones for days on end for the points being spent on that squad. Wraiths work just as well.

i'd say more troops. High strength weapons aren't going to do much as you are chancing a low amount of shots to break through just on wound rolls. Your best bet is to shoot as much as you can. They're not on a bikes, so you only have to break a S4 before he's on his saves.

but yea.... tarpit works, but he'll probably just kill the tarpit.

You really can't kill Wraiths.

Yea take a Wraith unit. Great points efficiency right there considering what you're spending to tie up 300-400+ points.

I'm a big fan of the destroyer cult myself. I'd use regular destroyers to hit the sides of the unit as best you can and heavy destroyers to target the chapter master. If it isn't the shield eternal, failing a single 3++ will end his life with no chance at FNP.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You could tarpit that with Flayed Ones for days on end for the points being spent on that squad. Wraiths work just as well.

If he's taking that deathball without Sammael or Celestine for H&R, smack him for being sub-optimal

How is the CM getting a 2+ FNP?

 buddha wrote:
How is the CM getting a 2+ FNP?

Iron Hands chapter tactics, apothecary, Gorgon's Chain and a Clan Raukaan warlord trait. With Endurance he could get a 1+ FNP, rendering him essentially unkillable by anything less than S10.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 buddha wrote:
How is the CM getting a 2+ FNP?

Iron Hands chapter tactics, apothecary, Gorgon's Chain and a Clan Raukaan warlord trait. With Endurance he could get a 1+ FNP, rendering him essentially unkillable by anything less than S10.

But the warlord trait can not be chosen so it should be 3+ FnP most of the time.

Anyway, If they are walking and have plasma they wont be charging since they arent relentless. Just keep smacking them with str 8-10 weapons.

Lots and lots of mid-to-low S weapons?

Or, stay out of their way. Let them drop, hold them on cc to negate the plasmas, and get everyone else out of range and LOS.

Shoot them from an angle where the Chapter Master isn't stood so that the Apothecary snuffs it, if possible. Otherwise you could always try to just move away from him, he's on foot once he's landed.

tedurur wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 buddha wrote:
How is the CM getting a 2+ FNP?

Iron Hands chapter tactics, apothecary, Gorgon's Chain and a Clan Raukaan warlord trait. With Endurance he could get a 1+ FNP, rendering him essentially unkillable by anything less than S10.

But the warlord trait can not be chosen so it should be 3+ FnP most of the time.

Anyway, If they are walking and have plasma they wont be charging since they arent relentless. Just keep smacking them with str 8-10 weapons.

Yeah, I agree that most of the time it'll be just a 3+ FNP but he has 2 different ways of improving that further than the wargear can.

And why on earth would ANYONE field a walking command squad, let alone with this build?

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

tedurur wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 buddha wrote:
How is the CM getting a 2+ FNP?

Iron Hands chapter tactics, apothecary, Gorgon's Chain and a Clan Raukaan warlord trait. With Endurance he could get a 1+ FNP, rendering him essentially unkillable by anything less than S10.

But the warlord trait can not be chosen so it should be 3+ FnP most of the time.

Anyway, If they are walking and have plasma they wont be charging since they arent relentless. Just keep smacking them with str 8-10 weapons.

Yeah, I agree that most of the time it'll be just a 3+ FNP but he has 2 different ways of improving that further than the wargear can.

And why on earth would ANYONE field a walking command squad, let alone with this build?

Indeed, OP should be happy its not biker command squad with grav

Okay. You're playing the FNP rule wrong. MOST sources of FNP do NOT STACK, only the Iron Hands CT stacks with other FNP (it says it does in the rules).

Otherwise, if you have 1 source of FNP and another, you only get 5+ FNP.

With endurance it is theoretically possible to get 3+ (endurance+Iron Hands) but that's as good as you get.

The apothecary plus IH gets him 4+ FNP, that's it. He probably has 2+ armor, 3++ invuln, 4+ FNP (which is still bonkers. But with Canoptek wraiths in the formation you can tank it.)

the_scotsman wrote:
Okay. You're playing the FNP rule wrong. MOST sources of FNP do NOT STACK, only the Iron Hands CT stacks with other FNP (it says it does in the rules).

Otherwise, if you have 1 source of FNP and another, you only get 5+ FNP.

With endurance it is theoretically possible to get 3+ (endurance+Iron Hands) but that's as good as you get.

The apothecary plus IH gets him 4+ FNP, that's it. He probably has 2+ armor, 3++ invuln, 4+ FNP (which is still bonkers. But with Canoptek wraiths in the formation you can tank it.)

"The Flesh is Weak: Non-vehicle Iron Hands models have the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule. If they have the Feel No Pain rule from another source (a narthecium, for example), they instead add 1 to the result of any Feel No Pain rolls. " Codex: SM

"The bearer of the Gorgon’s Chain has the following special rules, depending on how many unsaved Wounds he has suffered during the battle:
0 Wounds suffered - The bearer has a 3+ invulnerable save, +1 to his Feel No Pain rolls and the Eternal Warrior special rule." Supplement: Clan Raukaan

"3 - Flesh is Weak: This Warlord bears such an extraordinary amount of cybernetic enhancements that he is more machine than man.
Your Warlord adds +1 to any Feel No Pain rolls he makes." Clan Raukaan warlord traits.

Plain and simple, you are wrong. You can get to 2+++ with the correct warlord trait and 1+++ with Endurance.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Okay. You're playing the FNP rule wrong. MOST sources of FNP do NOT STACK, only the Iron Hands CT stacks with other FNP (it says it does in the rules).

Otherwise, if you have 1 source of FNP and another, you only get 5+ FNP.

With endurance it is theoretically possible to get 3+ (endurance+Iron Hands) but that's as good as you get.

The apothecary plus IH gets him 4+ FNP, that's it. He probably has 2+ armor, 3++ invuln, 4+ FNP (which is still bonkers. But with Canoptek wraiths in the formation you can tank it.)

"The Flesh is Weak: Non-vehicle Iron Hands models have the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule. If they have the Feel No Pain rule from another source (a narthecium, for example), they instead add 1 to the result of any Feel No Pain rolls. " Codex: SM

"The bearer of the Gorgon’s Chain has the following special rules, depending on how many unsaved Wounds he has suffered during the battle:
0 Wounds suffered - The bearer has a 3+ invulnerable save, +1 to his Feel No Pain rolls and the Eternal Warrior special rule." Supplement: Clan Raukaan

"3 - Flesh is Weak: This Warlord bears such an extraordinary amount of cybernetic enhancements that he is more machine than man.
Your Warlord adds +1 to any Feel No Pain rolls he makes." Clan Raukaan warlord traits.

Plain and simple, you are wrong. You can get to 2+++ with the correct warlord trait and 1+++ with Endurance.

JERRY, JERRY, JERRY!!!! - Seriously though, 1's always fail though. So 2+ is the best you can get.

Side note, if you have Eternal Warrior and I double out your Toughness, the wound is still considered Instant Death and it ignores FNP (USR - Instant Death). Eternal Warrior just prevents you from going to 0 Wounds from an ID attack, not necessarily immuned to the FNP removal. Is that correct?

Yes that's correct.

Saythings wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Okay. You're playing the FNP rule wrong. MOST sources of FNP do NOT STACK, only the Iron Hands CT stacks with other FNP (it says it does in the rules).

Otherwise, if you have 1 source of FNP and another, you only get 5+ FNP.

With endurance it is theoretically possible to get 3+ (endurance+Iron Hands) but that's as good as you get.

The apothecary plus IH gets him 4+ FNP, that's it. He probably has 2+ armor, 3++ invuln, 4+ FNP (which is still bonkers. But with Canoptek wraiths in the formation you can tank it.)

"The Flesh is Weak: Non-vehicle Iron Hands models have the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule. If they have the Feel No Pain rule from another source (a narthecium, for example), they instead add 1 to the result of any Feel No Pain rolls. " Codex: SM

"The bearer of the Gorgon’s Chain has the following special rules, depending on how many unsaved Wounds he has suffered during the battle:
0 Wounds suffered - The bearer has a 3+ invulnerable save, +1 to his Feel No Pain rolls and the Eternal Warrior special rule." Supplement: Clan Raukaan

"3 - Flesh is Weak: This Warlord bears such an extraordinary amount of cybernetic enhancements that he is more machine than man.
Your Warlord adds +1 to any Feel No Pain rolls he makes." Clan Raukaan warlord traits.

Plain and simple, you are wrong. You can get to 2+++ with the correct warlord trait and 1+++ with Endurance.

JERRY, JERRY, JERRY!!!! - Seriously though, 1's always fail though. So 2+ is the best you can get.

Side note, if you have Eternal Warrior and I double out your Toughness, the wound is still considered Instant Death and it ignores FNP (USR - Instant Death). Eternal Warrior just prevents you from going to 0 Wounds from an ID attack, not necessarily immuned to the FNP removal. Is that correct?

"When rolling dice to take a characteristic test, a dice roll of 6 is always a failure, and a dice roll of 1 is always a success, regardless of any other modifiers."

Feel no Pain is not a characteristic test so this rule clearly does not apply here. FNP isn't a save so those rules can't be applied either.

Interesting YMDC interpretation of the 1+ FNP ruling. I wonder how many TOs or even opponents would agree to play like that.

More power to you!

Saythings wrote:
Interesting YMDC interpretation of the 1+ FNP ruling. I wonder how many TOs or even opponents would agree to play like that.

More power to you!

I think that the 1+++ is something that should definitely be FAQ'd away but GW being GW we shouldn't be holding our collective breaths while waiting for that miracle to happen. Even 2+++ is pretty brutal vs. most enemies.