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Hey everyone, I've been looking to try and create a rule set for a large scale battle miniature war game, for WWII or possibly modern conflicts - I'll probably make a similar rule set for both eventually. For now I'll be focusing primarily on WWII.

I've been doing a little research as well as looking over some old models that I have floating around, and there are a few scales I've been looking at. As of now I lack the capacity to manufacture models, so for the foreseeable future my war game would be using only models available from existing ranges. I'm also looking for models that are fairly affordable, though I will admit that this has become more difficult since miniature war gaming has taken off in the last few years. The third thing I'm looking for is variety, I'm hoping to make a war game that includes as wide a range of WWII German and Russian equipment as possible, as well as infantry of course.

So far here are the scales I have looked at:

1:87
1:100
15mm
20mm

From my research, 20mm is the larger end of the model options.

Summary of my objectives:

Wide model range
Models for relatively large scale battles

Any input or thoughts on model sizes for war gaming would be appreciated, I'm very much open to ideas at this point.

Also, does anyone have any experience with the following sites? They appeared to have fairly good selections:

milicast.com

minairons.eu

The absolute cheapest for any kind of historicals is going to be 1:72 scale; between Revell, Airfix, Italeri, Hat and various other manufactures, pretty much any historical period from ancients to Cold War and even moderns is covered with a wide selection of models, often good quality (particularly Hat and Revell), and the best bit is that a box of 50-odd minis will cost you no more than about $10 tops. Likewise, so long as you're not dead set on the absolute top quality models for tanks and aircraft, you can get most (particularly WW2) for very little, again often around $10.

More practically, it's also a nice scale for large games, you can pack a lot of models on a board (or play smaller battles on a much smaller board, good for 'kitchen table' fights).

While the Airfix army men typically are the cheapest option, you might want to look into the Flames of War ranges as well.

Battlefront/ FoW produces a wide selection of miniatures and vehicles in 1/100 scale/ 15mm, and they're reasonably priced as well (compared to GW). In the long run I would go for FoW miniatures and the 1/100 scale is better suited for large scale battles than 1/72.

1/300 or 1/285th scale models (Microarmour) are preferable for large scale modern battles, allowing you to field whole battalions of tanks on a large table.

1/72 is very good for skirmish, as there is such a wide variety of kits and figures available. 1/72 scale vehicles are compatible with 20mm figures, though I would not mix 1/72 scale infantry and 20mm infantry.

15mm (1/100th) has become popular thanks to World In Flames and there is now a large range of vehicles and figures available.

In my view there is not much to choose between 1/72 or 20mm, and 15mm, for scale. If you want to do a battle where you can fit several kilometres of battlefield onto a table, they are both too large.

GHQ Microarmour
http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's look at some basic points.

The typical range for tank battles in WW2 was under 1,000 metres, so you want a table maybe 2,000 metres across -- ideally wider -- or everyone will be "in melee" right from the start and there won't be any scope for manoeuvring. Average infantry engagement range was 250 metres.

Typical table size is 1 metre wide, 2 long, so you want a game scale of 2000:1. This makes 1cm on the tape measure 20 metres on the ground. A 20mm square base could realistically be an infantry squad deployed for combat.

The length of a Sherman is just under 6 metres, which is 8cm in 1/72 scale, which is 160 metres in your ground scale of 2000:1. This means most infantry fighting will take place at closer distances then the length of the tank model.

If you choose 1/285 scale for the models, a Sherman tank ends up being about 39 metres long, which is still "big" but not unfeasibly big compared to the range of infantry weapons. It's longer than the range to throw grenades, but that's a factor you can fudge in the game.

This is why figure and ground scales don't always line up. You can use 15s, for example, and a 1/300 ground scale and it won't look terrible. However, if you are gaming large scale conflicts, you will be talking in terms of platoons/companies of infantry and anything larger than 1/300 ground scale is too small. modeling individual figures is impractical. You can use individual figures as representative markers, but maneuver will not be individuals and avoid conventions that rely on individuals. You will need a more "zoomed out" approach.

I would strongly encourage you to look at some of the existing wargames (not just miniature) set in this era. WW2 eastern front is a *very* popular wargame subject with lots of documentation on the historical forces.

Thank you all for the information, very useful and sincerely appreciated, I'll be doing some more research into those suggestions!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
1/300 or 1/285th scale models (Microarmour) are preferable for large scale modern battles, allowing you to field whole battalions of tanks on a large table.

1/72 is very good for skirmish, as there is such a wide variety of kits and figures available. 1/72 scale vehicles are compatible with 20mm figures, though I would not mix 1/72 scale infantry and 20mm infantry.

15mm (1/100th) has become popular thanks to World In Flames and there is now a large range of vehicles and figures available.

In my view there is not much to choose between 1/72 or 20mm, and 15mm, for scale. If you want to do a battle where you can fit several kilometres of battlefield onto a table, they are both too large.

GHQ Microarmour
http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's look at some basic points.

The typical range for tank battles in WW2 was under 1,000 metres, so you want a table maybe 2,000 metres across -- ideally wider -- or everyone will be "in melee" right from the start and there won't be any scope for manoeuvring. Average infantry engagement range was 250 metres.

Typical table size is 1 metre wide, 2 long, so you want a game scale of 2000:1. This makes 1cm on the tape measure 20 metres on the ground. A 20mm square base could realistically be an infantry squad deployed for combat.

The length of a Sherman is just under 6 metres, which is 8cm in 1/72 scale, which is 160 metres in your ground scale of 2000:1. This means most infantry fighting will take place at closer distances then the length of the tank model.

If you choose 1/285 scale for the models, a Sherman tank ends up being about 39 metres long, which is still "big" but not unfeasibly big compared to the range of infantry weapons. It's longer than the range to throw grenades, but that's a factor you can fudge in the game.

Just spent some time looking through that site you linked, selection is amazing and the sheer number of models in each pack is spectacular. Budge-wise that looks excellent, I will of course be looking into purchasing a few models and seeing how they could work in tabletop gaming. Thank you for the link!

GHQ used to provide the models for US Army training wargames, in the days before it was all computerised.

KK covered it pretty well. Basically, the smallest models that still look allow you to distinguish a StuG G from a F8. I recommend 1/100 (FoW) at the largest.

1/144 is a good alternative, as is 1/285 (GHQ).

1/72 has a lot of models, and is really the scale for tank models over all things.

28mm (BA) is an abomination. I simply cannot accept a bolt action rifle with such a short effective range.