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As it says in the title, can I have a unit with a dedicated transport deploying in another transport?

The reason I ask is because I'd like to run an Iron Wolves Wolfclaw Strikeforce, so I can wolf my wolf from inside a metal box. To make a full force (under 1000pts) I'd like to give a 10 strong unit of Blood Claws a dedicated Razorback, but then put them inside a Stormwolf gunship from the auxiliary choice. The Razorback would be deployed empty as a cheap and cheerful gun-tank, satisfying the Iron Wolves requirement for every unit in the Greatpack to have a transport.

I don't see any ruling against it, but wanted to check before I started spending money on wolves.

As long as the Stormwolf Gunship isn't a dedicated transport to a different unit it is perfectly legal to deploy like that.

I also can't see anything against doing this, the only related restrictions I see is that a different unit can't start the game embarked in someone else's dedicated transport.

Thanks just wanted to check. Not a bad tax then for a vehicle heavy army.

Man, they have really bunged up the concept of dedicated transport in this edition.

How? It's the same as all editions back to 4th that I can tell *

*Barring units granting their dt special rules such as infiltrate; I'm talking here about who may deploy inside one.

WaughGoff wrote:
Man, they have really bunged up the concept of dedicated transport in this edition.

I agree. Taking a dedicated transport should require that the unit start in that transport.

 EnTyme wrote:

WaughGoff wrote:
Man, they have really bunged up the concept of dedicated transport in this edition.

I agree. Taking a dedicated transport should require that the unit start in that transport.

Or at the same time, in close proximity, at least.

Right now, it's only a major concern for Drop Pods and Night Scythes.

But that's more about what they should be, which is a different section of the forum.

 Charistoph wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

WaughGoff wrote:
Man, they have really bunged up the concept of dedicated transport in this edition.

I agree. Taking a dedicated transport should require that the unit start in that transport.

Or at the same time, in close proximity, at least.

Right now, it's only a major concern for Drop Pods and Night Scythes.

But that's more about what they should be, which is a different section of the forum.

Yet they haven't done so for at least ten years. Which is a good thing, because in 4th no one in their right mind started inside the vehicle (damn ordnance chart!)

Hang on, the deployment might not be an issue here, but can a 10-strong unit take a dedicated transport with only a 6-model capacity?

Entirely depends on the rules for the unit in question. There is no general rule that requires a unit be able to deploy into their dedicated transport.

 Raichase wrote:
Hang on, the deployment might not be an issue here, but can a 10-strong unit take a dedicated transport with only a 6-model capacity?

In the absence of a specific restrictions, absolutely yes. I do this pretty frequently. There is no requirement that a unit be able to actually fit into it's dedicated transport.

There is a specific restriction for Iron wolves: must have a transport for all units that can actually fit the units(really loose paraphrase as book is at home)

I almost seem to recall that the restriction is a little looser than that; it might just require enough transport capacity for all models in the formation(at which point you may not need the razorback at all since the stormwolf can fit them).

At any rate, you can always start a unit with a DT inside of another non-Dedicated transport(unless a formation or mission has special rules requiring the unit to start in their own DT); you just can never start a unit inside another unit's DT.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
...you just can never start a unit inside another unit's DT.

Unless that unit is entirely composed of models with the Independent Character model and is joining a unit inside their own Dedicated Transport. There are always exceptions.

Raichase wrote:Hang on, the deployment might not be an issue here, but can a 10-strong unit take a dedicated transport with only a 6-model capacity?

Most can. Some units do specify a model-size limit in order to purchase certain Transports, but it is very rare these days (very common in 4th Edition, though).

Of course, Necrons have a unit which cannot Embark on their own Dedicated Transport, so...

Kriswall wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
...you just can never start a unit inside another unit's DT.

Unless that unit is entirely composed of models with the Independent Character model and is joining a unit inside their own Dedicated Transport. There are always exceptions.

At which point, they are all part of the purchasing unit anyway, so yay!

 Charistoph wrote:

Raichase wrote:Hang on, the deployment might not be an issue here, but can a 10-strong unit take a dedicated transport with only a 6-model capacity?

Most can. Some units do specify a model-size limit in order to purchase certain Transports, but it is very rare these days (very common in 4th Edition, though).

Of course, Necrons have a unit which cannot Embark on their own Dedicated Transport, so...

Kriswall wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
...you just can never start a unit inside another unit's DT.

Unless that unit is entirely composed of models with the Independent Character model and is joining a unit inside their own Dedicated Transport. There are always exceptions.

At which point, they are all part of the purchasing unit anyway, so yay!

Yup. Just pointing it out for completion's sake.

 Kriswall wrote:
In the absence of a specific restrictions, absolutely yes. I do this pretty frequently. There is no requirement that a unit be able to actually fit into it's dedicated transport.

Thanks for the reply! I'm only recently getting back into 40k, and I recall in earlier editions the codex used to stipulate "squads numbering X models or less may select a (whatever) as a dedicated transport". I suspect the rule now just states "squads may select (whatever) as a dedicated transport". There's certainly no restrictions placed in my Chaos Codex (for example a squad of 20-CSMs can select a Rhino etc), although it's an early edition (with the 105pt Helbrute), so wasn't sure if this was addressed in later editions.

 Raichase wrote:
Thanks for the reply! I'm only recently getting back into 40k, and I recall in earlier editions the codex used to stipulate "squads numbering X models or less may select a (whatever) as a dedicated transport". I suspect the rule now just states "squads may select (whatever) as a dedicated transport". There's certainly no restrictions placed in my Chaos Codex (for example a squad of 20-CSMs can select a Rhino etc), although it's an early edition (with the 105pt Helbrute), so wasn't sure if this was addressed in later editions.

No, they have been going away from it for some time. Aside from Formations (which carry their own restrictions), I think Dark Eldar had one or two units which still had a limit, but I could just be remembering their 5th Edition entries.

I think they first stopped doing unit size restrictions in the middle of 4th Edition when the "blue period" started with Eldar and Dark Angels.

Beniki wrote:
can I have a unit with a dedicated transport deploying in another transport?

I think you can, you would need something with a dedicated transport rhino and a thunderhawk transporter.
I don't know of any other transport that can transport an other transport unit dedicated or not.
Guards might have one.

 oldzoggy wrote:

Beniki wrote:
can I have a unit with a dedicated transport deploying in another transport?

I think you can, you would need something with a dedicated transport rhino and a thunderhawk transporter.
I don't know of any other transport that can transport an other transport unit dedicated or not.
Guards might have one.

The Tau Manta from Forgeworld is a Super Heavy Flyer that has a huge Transport Capacity. Among other things, it can hold up to 4 Devilfish chassis Vehicles. You could potentially deploy Fire Warriors inside a Devilfish and then deploy said Devilfish inside a Manta.