Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I only ask because I realised today that I take an exceptional amount of pleasure from running my friends armies into the dirt. Does anyone else get the same pleasure?
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
If you get tabled (or very close to) it's never as fun as you think. Being on both ends, the victory is sullied by the fact that your opponent will feel pretty bad about having their army wiped, and if you're defeated and nearly (or completely) tabled, it feels kinda bad.
That being said, I do love the games which are close both in VPs and troops lost. Those are the best games
I do enjoy my fair share of Schadenfreude at seeing net lists and top tier cheese armies get horribly beaten into the ground (especially from weaker or trolling army lists). The thing is I don't want that experience to happen in a game I am involved in. If I'm playing a game with somebody then I want both parties to have fun and make it a worthwhile experience. If it happens in somebody else's game then that's different but its especially enjoyable when it happens to WAAC or TFG players.
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
I have a friendly rivalry with a couple of other people, so it would make sense to bring in a cheesy list every once in a while, but we usually have a couple of things we keep in mind when we do it:
1) Don't do it in excess, since it discourages creative list-building, and constant one-sided matches are boring for the three of us
2) Warn everyone in advance if a cheesy list, or multiple overpowered units are going to be used. We tend to use these as special challenges for each other, and if one of us manages to beat the other's cheesy list with a list that doesn't use overpowered units, that person gets bragging rights.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/13 18:31:32
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Beat a new type codex Elder list with walking Nids once, terribly bad, boring, frustrating game. And i won, like 15 / 9 or something.
I feel this game has more luck and chance involvement than skill, so when people bring the linear bs all i can think of is how lame minded my opponent is.
I never bring the cheese, it's no fun for me knowing i could potentially increase my winning chances by being a selfish person.
Nothing wrong with being compy, but 40k isn't the place for it.
I take 'fluffy' lists. I like armies that look like armies that would actually be fielded in the background. So if I do take an OP unit, it's probably in very limited number.
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
mrhappyface wrote: I only ask because I realised today that I take an exceptional amount of pleasure from running my friends armies into the dirt. Does anyone else get the same pleasure?
No because it is a good way to lose friends. The game is broken, unbalanced and is no test of your skills. The winner is often who has the most money and bought the best army not who has the most skill in playing. I take pleasure in painting a nice army or having a fun day of rolling dice with some friends. If I want to be competitive I play a better game.
Yes, I do take pleasure from doing it. That said I am an Imperial Guard player so it almost never happens, unless I ally of course.... But damn, I do love those moments.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
No one sided games are kinda dull, But I do take pleasure in tricky tackticks that have the potential to evaporate units such as a Burnawagon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do love to crush armies of players who like to list tailor against my orks with the occasional unexpected switch from all infantry to an av14 wall.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/13 20:39:54
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while
I realise that most people in this thread play friendly games and never take over powered lists.
However, in my group of friends who play warhammer there is; moi, who uses invincible invisible 2++ khorne knight; guard player, who uses cheap imperial armour tank legions with detachment of dark angels melta drop pod unit; ork player, who uses kustom mega stompa + hundreds of ork boys with a 4++ from force fields; a guy who just takes knights; a taudar player, with wraithknight + ghostkeel formation; a necron croisont + assassins player; and finally a tyranid flying circus player.
In our group we set out making the most op lists and then the rest of us set out to destroy them. Therefore for about a week one person will be undefeated until someone makes a list which can mince their army. It is always fun to destroy the top dog.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Other - No, that isn't a game to me. I don't sit with someone for an afternoon if I don't want to play with them.
I am lucky that I only have to game with people I respect to get some dice on table. I haven't had to face true random pick ups.
Sigvatr wrote: "Haha, I have to take overpowered units because my actual skills suck!"
Not a healthy mindset to have
If someone has an over powered list + they are quite skilled at the game then you have no choice but to make an over powered list. You might be the craftiest fox in the world but if someones army is over powered and they play it skillfully your not going to break them with sheer determination alone.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Inspired by predator movies, me and my brother organised a nid vs guard battle.
Most boring game I ever had. Ran a bunch of genestealers through the jungle and annihilated the catachan infantry army. 0/10 did not play scenario again.
mrhappyface wrote: I realise that most people in this thread play friendly games and never take over powered lists.
However, in my group of friends who play warhammer there is; moi, who uses invincible invisible 2++ khorne knight; guard player, who uses cheap imperial armour tank legions with detachment of dark angels melta drop pod unit; ork player, who uses kustom mega stompa + hundreds of ork boys with a 4++ from force fields; a guy who just takes knights; a taudar player, with wraithknight + ghostkeel formation; a necron croisont + assassins player; and finally a tyranid flying circus player.
In our group we set out making the most op lists and then the rest of us set out to destroy them. Therefore for about a week one person will be undefeated until someone makes a list which can mince their army. It is always fun to destroy the top dog.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying building & playing with the most filthy, cutthroat lists you and your group can possibly dream up. However, it should most definitely be kept entirely within said group.
If you end up wanting to play against a newcomer, or seek out some friendly pick-up games, etc..., then you should have the basic human decency to forewarn your potential opponent that you list is meant for ruthlessly curbstoming the competition.
I don't think there's really that many people here on Dakka who would admit to actually enjoying that level of TFG trolling.
Personally, I most enjoy playing themed 'for fun' lists, such as mono-Tzeentch Daemons, or 100% purely 'Daemonic Host' CSM's + Daemon allies, or perhaps a Khorne/Slaanesh Daemon army that's taken their eternal rivalry into the material realm & my opponent's army has simply gotten in the way of a daemonic fued, etc...
Now that doesn't mean that I take a list that's completely inept or utterly incapable of competing! I know I wouldn't enjoy playing against a list that's so outright awful I don't even really need to pick-up the dice to know I'm going to crush it.
However, I do enjoy mixing in some more unorodox/un-optimised units that will no doubt be fun to see in action!
One of my favourite units for example in my Tzeentchian host, is a large unit of 18 Horrors w/upgraded banner + ap2 sword Champ, led by a Tzherald toting a Mutating Warpblade + Greater Locus of D6Str.
Opponents generally love seeing a big unit they can enjoy boltering to death, and I love it every time those little Pinkies suddenly start flipping battle tanks or punching out Dreadnoughts, while the Tzherald turns all those lovely single wound Sergeants into Chaos Spawn!
So I guess I'd call myself a semi-capable fluff player...
I don't care about losing, (it happens all the time with my horrid dice!), but I don't enjoy being stomped by obnoxious stuff such as old school Warp Quake, or seeing nothing but 4-5x Imperial Knights or min/maxed Scatbikes & Wriathknights all the time.
The best games I've enjoyed are the ones where both my opponent & I have beaten each other bloody, to the point that there's maybe a dozen models combined left on the table! Even if I've lost 12-0 on Objectives, it was hugely enjoyable just seeing our forces absolutely murder the other!
I get nothing out of it if its plain as day that it's my list winning the game pretty much on autopilot. It's like beating a toddler in a running contest.
I remember playing my cousin. I had always been a painter and had some RBT01 marines and some of the 1st edition plastic IG miniatures. My cousin was inspired by my poorly painted minis and wanted to get into the game so he started collecting Mordian Iron Guard that I painted for him. We decided to have our first game as my marines against his guard. He also had a card imperial bastion and used that as a strongpoint I would attack. I basically started massacreing his IG from the first roll. We both hated it, and I felt really guilty all the way through because even with poor rolls and poor tactical choices I was beating him. It was not competetive and was not fun either.
We've always preferred light hearted down to the last few minis on each side kind of games, not one sided white washing...
In a pickup game I don't like to see either side get utterly wiped out. However, I do have a couple of friends who our entire goal is to bring the meanest thing we can think of against the other. Its a point of pride in those games as to who can cause the most detriment to their opponents army. Once again though, we know that going into the game.
Even so, I wouldn't take an OP unit solely because it was OP. Hell, I'm the kind of guy who plays because he likes to play- I'm seriously considering starting a CSM army just because I love the fluff for the Emperor's Children so much.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
Ummm...
I LIKE to play the strongest force I can BUT I do not want my opponent to take it lying down... I ask for them to bring their best game too!
If it looks like a tabling I usually want to stop more than my opponent.
So a fair fight I think does not quite fall into sadistic territory.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
99% of the time I like a close game. I often adjust the scale of ravenwing:deathwing in order to bring down my list to a level suitable to the army I'm facing. I'd rather lose a game where my opponent and I were sweating bullets until the end of the last turn than win a game where my opponent throws in the towel turn 3. Most of my regular pool of "PUG" players appreciate how willing I am to adjust my list from "I want to test this for a tournament" to "I just feel like playing sub par unit x and want to make it to turn 5".
There are two cases where I will go all out.
One is a very competitive event. I only went to 1 last year, and everyone was cranking it to 11 so the games were good and close anyway. I play several events a year, but most of them are more for fun than competitive. I went to two charity tournaments last year, and most people kept it closer to 7-8.
The second is the true 1% of the time I just want to completely destroy and demoralize my opponent. In this case I go get a bit sadistic. I would even admit to this 1% of the time going full TFG. But this 1% is reserved for when it's time to give another tfg a taste of the receiving end. I've told the story on here about the necron player who cheated people when the codex came out and noone knew enough to question his calls. When the new DA codex dropped I gave him a taste of his own medicine. I felt a little bad afterwards, but he got the point, and has since shown improvement.
More recently:
Spoiler:
More recently our local community has been growing. I know that may seem hard to believe, but it's true. It is a mix of true fresh blood, people who had stopped playing but came in to see whats up and realized that the game can still be fun despite the constant doom and gloom people see online, and also a few players who have moved into the area. We love new and returning players, but it is the last group, people who moved from other metas, that is always an interesting one. Our group tends to enjoy it as they bring a taste of what their last meta was like, and it will breathe a bit of freshness into our group.
For example our meta is flyer light. Sometimes people will bring 1-3 flyers. A guy came from a meta where everyone ran flyers and FMC all the time. This was interesting because it started a bit of a mini arms race of air/anti air. Long story short he's fun to play with, never minds when people ask if he tones down the flyers or if they can adjust their list a bit to have more anti air (in friendly games), and our meta balanced back out to flyer light.
Now there are guys who move to our meta from hyper competitive groups. Groups where everyone goes all out all the time, and it has been drilled into them that there is no point in playing if you're not winning at all costs. Most of the time these guys will crush a few unexpecting players, then gravitate to only playing those of us who can come prepared for such a list (call it cheese if you will). They usually tone it down after a while in order to get more games in and thus adopt our meta. This in itself isn't negative.
What is?
We had a guy, lets call him Bob, come to us from what must have been a truly toxic community. Bob was not a nice person. He would watch games and criticize or even berate the players for their list choices or in game decisions. Not in a "did you know unit x out performs unit y for the cost" kind of way, more in a "omfg scrub why would you run that!?" way. He would argue every move or rule you used, talk down to you the whole game, and rub in his wins. Bob was the kind of player who would crank it up to 11 and sprinkle some WAAC "rule bending" to all of his games. He would then take this play style and intentionally go after newer of more inexperienced players. As people caught on, they would either match him for cheese or avoid playing him. I think you get it.
Now we have this new player who is playing DA, lets call him little Timmy. He is younger, around 15ish I'd say, and a good kid. I kind of took him under my (raven)wing when he first joined us when I saw the twinkle in his eye watching me field my ravenwing in all their glory in a great game against a tough eldar player. I lost, but it was fun. After the game he was really excited, asking me all kinds of questions, it was pretty great feeling.
Now what you all saw coming. A game between Bob and little Timmy. I came into our store ready for a fun day of warhammer just in time to see the end of turn 3 where little Timmy was being utterly crushed by Bob. Not just on the table, but in spirit. I hung off to the side and watched Bob finishing up what could barely be called a game while talking to a few of the locals. According to them, Bob had been playing a pretty dirty game, and whenever people would intervene he would get defensive to the point of borderline hostility. I watch what is left of the game and get ready to go 1% on this guy.
As Timmy is packing up, I start a separate conversation with him. Making sure that a few comments are loud enough for Bob to hear. After a few, Bob takes the bait and joins our conversation, going on about how Timmy was terribad and needs to L2P, you know that garbage. I made a few comments about how Timmy's list could beat his once Timmy is more familiar with the game, yada yada. Bob scoffs at the idea, saying no amount of skill could overcome his all winning list. I offer Bob a game using the same lists, and he thinks he just secured a second easy win and accepts.
Now what followed was not pretty. Bob didn't face the same list. As I explained to him, I didn't see the first 3 turns, so I took some liberties assuming what would have been in the list. 1850 points of ravenwing, with whitescar librarian conclave, invisible RWCS, 2+ rerollable jink everywhere, with a much tailoring to what he had as possible. I truly tfg list. I see it in Bobs eyes. He knows this list is much better than the one he brought. We both know that this list is going to roflstomp his all over the board. We play the game, the whole time I give him a taste of his own poison. "That move made no sense", "why are you even running those", "that die is cocked, better reroll it", the whole time calling him on every tiny rule "mistake" with snide comments like "I thought you knew this game" or "even Timmy knows that". The game ends turn three, Bob pulling his hair out, and me with a eating grin plastered on my face. I offer him a hand shake with the most sarcastic "good game" I could manage, and watch him pack his stuff in a flustered rush. I take a few minutes to revel in my glory.
Now I turn to little Timmy, expecting to have a few good laughs about how I got his revenge. Instead, Timmy looks at me like he had just watched me slaughter the younglings. With a sigh I go and talk to Bob. Apologize for the terrible game I just gave him, and we have a good talk. Now this doesn't turn into some sappy story where Bob learned his lesson, and we became best friends braiding each other's hair while thinking of starting a joint rainbow marines army. But I did have a good chat with him, and he at least heard me out, and told us he would work on it. He kind of did, but eventually he just stopped coming.
TLDR I have a guilty pleasure of sadistically crushing people who I deem deserve it.
"And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels."
— Ancient Calibanite Fable
I'm bad at 40k so no, I don't like when people bring crazy powerful lists with the sole intent of tabling. I mean, even when I do get lucky and table good lists it just feels like a waste. Having a turn 2 victory is literally the most unsatisfying game you can possibly play.
Even so, I wouldn't take an OP unit solely because it was OP. Hell, I'm the kind of guy who plays because he likes to play- I'm seriously considering starting a CSM army just because I love the fluff for the Emperor's Children so much.
I like when people play CSM too! My DW knights really like to say hi
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/14 06:41:05
I don't like Flyrants. I don't like their model, I don't like how expensive they are, I don't like them in my Hive Fleet Kraken theme that I prefer. I take them to stay on the table, and my third was the beautiful 3rd Edition Forge World version that I couldn't possibly be happier about buying, but that's just one of many. I also don't like Wraithknights, Venoms, Drop Pods, Grav Guns, Spawn, Daemon Princes, Heldrakes, Stormsurges, C'tan and a bunch of other powerful and good units. They don't often fit into the themes that I want in armies.
So what I'm saying is, I don't like taking the OP units most times at all. I take them because they're good and learn to accept them, and sometimes even spam them. But I'm much happier running my Genestealers or Wych Cults or Red Corsair raiders or Tyrannic War Veterans than I will ever be running a competitive list. This is why I've been away from the table for a while.