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According to the poison rules, you wound on a certain value UNLESS you would normally wound better. it also says you may re-roll if the Str is higher than the Toghness of the model being attacked. According to the GMC rules, poison wounds only on 6.

So what if the model/weapon with poison wounds on a better value, specifically if it's Str is higher than the GMCs Toughness?
Example, a Nurgle Daemon Prince with Balesword (4+ poison) from an Infernal Tetrad formation (Str 7) vs a Stormsurge (T6).

Normally the Nurgle Prince will wound on 3+ as his S7 is higher than the Stormsurges T6. He has a poison weapon that allows him to wound on 4+, but against GMCs only on 6. His poison rules 'should" give him re-rolls to wound due to his S being higher. I do not think the re-roll is in question. the GMC rules do not mention denying this

But does the Prince wounds on 3+ with re-roll, or 6 with re-roll?

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well, if regular GW runs it any way like FW runs poison in 30k, then you use whatever roll would be better: the 4+(6+ in this case) reroll, or a regular swing if it would be better then the poison, but no reroll.

I don't see why you wouldn't get the re-roll though. The GMC rules say nothing about that particular benefit of poison. I do not play 30K, so I am not sure how their ruling is relevant, though I play some people who have 30k armies, so that is good to know.

I guess my main question is: If I am swinging with a poison weapon, do I "have" to roll 6s to wound via the GMC rules, or do I roll my S vs T as normal?

RAI seem to indicate the GMC only modifies the "set value" of the poison roll. So if I have poison (4+), it becomes poison (6) against GMC. If this is also RAW, then clearly you can simply use S vs T, and in this case you get the re-roll for having higher Str.

I am just not sure it can be supported RAW, because the GMC rules don't state the poison "set value", just that poison wounds only on 6.

 Galef wrote:
I don't see why you wouldn't get the re-roll though. The GMC rules say nothing about that particular benefit of poison. I do not play 30K, so I am not sure how their ruling is relevant, though I play some people who have 30k armies, so that is good to know.

I guess my main question is: If I am swinging with a poison weapon, do I "have" to roll 6s to wound via the GMC rules, or do I roll my S vs T as normal?

RAI seem to indicate the GMC only modifies the "set value" of the poison roll. So if I have poison (4+), it becomes poison (6) against GMC. If this is also RAW, then clearly you can simply use S vs T, and in this case you get the re-roll for having higher Str.

I am just not sure it can be supported RAW, because the GMC rules don't state the poison "set value", just that poison wounds only on 6.

well, in regards to the first part (again, speaking from how FW runs this issue in 30k) you wouldn't get the reroll since you're representing the fact that the sword itself can do much more damage then the poison coating it.

in reguards to the second part, I feel I should hold my silence since I'm not 100% sure how RAW treats the problem in 40k.

Huh, that's an odd one. But, poisoned rules quote, in 2 parts:

"If a model has the Poisoned special rule, or is attacking with a Melee weapon that has the Poisoned special rule, it always wounds on a fixed number (generally shown in brackets), unless a lower result would be required, when attacking in close combat."

Due to GMC, poison will only wound on a fixed value of 6+ (up from 4+), unless a lower number is required, which in the case of S7 v T6, is a 3+.

"In addition, if the Strength of the wielder (or the Poisoned weapon) is higher than the Toughness of the victim, the wielder must re-roll failed rolls To Wound in close combat."

Seems pretty clear. Your strength is greater than the toughness of the victim. You get to reroll. Not only that, you must reroll, actually.

I thought initially that you'd either get a 6+ rerollable or a 3+, but the rule does seem pretty clear - you'd get a 3+ rerollable.

I'm 90% certain that if you have poison, and can wound on a better roll than the poison itself, you use the better value and get the reroll. I remember reading it and thinking, "oh, that makes sense, that way having poison isn't useless." I'll have to double check my rulebook, but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes.

6+ with a re-roll.

You have no option to not use a weapon any more, so it must be used. That weapon has Poisoned. Poisoned weapons only wound Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures on a 6+. Re-roll because Strength is higher than Toughness.

If it said melta weapons only wound this guy on a 6, you'd have no confusion. This is the same scenario.

If you want an easier way to wound them, carry a non-poisoned weapon.

Darkness - except the 6+ is a fixed number, and so the rule tha you wound on that fixed number (was X+, now 6+) UNLESS you would wound on a better number, kicks in

3+ with a reroll.

Thanks guys. this is what I was thinking but couldn't seem to put it as clear as Kap'n Krump did.

I can't think of any other situation where this would happen though, since a Nurgle Prince (or GUO) is the only model I can think of that can get higher than S6 (with poision) and the Stormsurge is the only GMC I know of that is T6 or lower.

You can get a nurgle prince to str 9 with a balesword if you want (iron arm) which would help massively with wraith knights. Actually if the nurgle prince is in an infernal tetrad he would be str 10, and rerolling to hits as well.

 Galef wrote:
Thanks guys. this is what I was thinking but couldn't seem to put it as clear as Kap'n Krump did.

I can't think of any other situation where this would happen though, since a Nurgle Prince (or GUO) is the only model I can think of that can get higher than S6 (with poision) and the Stormsurge is the only GMC I know of that is T6 or lower.

This does seems like a pretty unique case, yeah.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
You can get a nurgle prince to str 9 with a balesword if you want (iron arm) which would help massively with wraith knights. Actually if the nurgle prince is in an infernal tetrad he would be str 10, and rerolling to hits as well.

You could also give him corruption and just auto wound everything with instant death. It's overkill, but that is the best kind of kill!

A few tyranid MCs can also pull it off (most can be upgraded with both poison and furious charge), but still not something seen very often.

Rulebook: In addition, attacks with the Sniper special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6. Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the attack’s Strength would cause a Wound on a lower result).

That is the direct quote from the rulebook in the gargantuan creatures section. It makes a specific exception to the "only 6s" poison rule for models that have a strength that would cause it to wound on a lower result, so you would get the 3+ with a reroll.

Arson Fire wrote:
A few tyranid MCs can also pull it off (most can be upgraded with both poison and furious charge), but still not something seen very often.

Yeah was going to chime in.. give any MC in the Nid list poison glands and most of them are wounding <=t4 on 2s rerolling. This would be the exact same case in my book... and is supported by all these rules people are quoting!