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 Knockagh wrote:
I genuinely don't think they are deliberately putting out bad ork stuff. It's just orks are a unique race that have a very defined culture and role not only in 40k but across fantasy worlds and it's really hard to translate that into fluff friendly rules, that allow your to win!

GW went for comedy effect orcs which I'm not so keen on, thankfully that is being counteracted by recent fiction from BL, so we shall see what happens......orks do though remain absolutely an awesomely cool army to see someone bring to the table. So well done all you ork players.

despite the fact that you can still buy goff rockers from the GW site they have started to move the orks away from comedy football hooligan bad guys.

Reading Rynn's World from BL is a good example of that!

What I hate the most that makes me lean towards the OP's concept of GW hate is the change in the mob rule table. The old mob rule perfectly reflected the fluff of orks in the game mechanics and the old bosspole as well. A gang draws strength from each other and is fearless and when they start to wonder whether they should carry on the fight their boss knocks a fella out and reminds them they iz orks!. The current mob rule is a farce of unnecessary dice rolling.
This scenario actually happened to me in a game:
1. roll for pinning - failed LD
2. Rolled for mob rule got born to fight
3. re-rerolled mob rule got squabble
4. rolled d6 wounds
5. rolled to wound
6. rolled for armour save and removed models now putting me at >25% casualties
7. opponent declares end of shooting phase rolled for LD
7. Failed LD roll for mob rule got born to fight AGAIN
8. re-roll mob rule got breaking heads
9. rolled for d6 wounds
10. rolled to wound
11. rolled for armour saves

THIS WAS 11 DICE ROLLS FOR ONE SQUAD! Since then I've stopped taking bosspoles on my boyz.

people hate playing orks because the games can take a long time but mob rule wastes so much time. Why did they change it? It wasn't broke!!!

What was the old rule? Why was that better?

pm713 wrote:
What was the old rule? Why was that better?

IIRC the old rule let you use the number of models in the unit as your leadership value and if there was 11 or more models in the unit you were Fearless. The new mob rule isn't as good as Fearless but I think it's certainly better than plain old Ld 7 and it's done me more good than harm, better to still be in the fight than not in it at all! It's also great for units like Mega Nobz or Warbikers who have a decent save or Toughness.

I think orks give more sales to gw then csm, that's probably why csm has yet to be updated.
As for gw lack of love for orks....I'm not sure. Who ever writes about orks in white dwarf just give the army praise and comments how cool they are, but when we get half thought out rules gak it's like they are flipping us off.
It seems like gw is fractured on its feelings for orks.

geargutz wrote:
I think orks give more sales to gw then csm, that's probably why csm has yet to be updated.
As for gw lack of love for orks....I'm not sure. Who ever writes about orks in white dwarf just give the army praise and comments how cool they are, but when we get half thought out rules gak it's like they are flipping us off.
It seems like gw is fractured on its feelings for orks.

Chaos Marines haven't been updated because they've been left to rot for long, that the entire model line is in as bad of a stat as Dark Eldar pre-5th ed re-launch...

The only kits worth keeping in that entire model, are the Termie Lord/Sorc, Possessed, Raptors/Warptalons, Forge/Maulerfiends & Helturkey.
Every other kit it going on 10+ years old, and is missing massive chunks of their basic options.

It's actually easier to scrape together a freaking Sisters of Bitter army!

 Runic wrote:
GW doesn't "hate" Orks or CSM, or their players, and nothing anyone says will make it so. Simply ridiculous and untrue.

It's just that GW isn't capable of writing balanced rules, and this time around Orks got the sour end of the stick. There are a few staples who almost never suck (Eldar, Space Marines) but the rest varies from year to year and edition to edition. Even Tau were a mediocre army at best at one point back in the day.

Orks can however make some respectable builds (just like Dark Eldar can, even if they are few) and do well. I got my ass handed to me by an Ork Trukk army in a tournament a while back, and I was packing the Skyhammer Annihilation Force and some White Scars Centurions aswell. The opponent was a good player and it goes to show that armylists win games, players win tournaments.

I am really not calling into question your playing ability, but I am going to say that you lost because the dice hated you that game. Ork Trukk lists are probably the biggest easy Button in the game for an opponent. Hit a trukk with either some low AP weapons or spam some S5+ shots at it until you get a handful of pens and then wait for the 6 to show up, or if you hit it with AP2 then you need a 5 or if you hit it with AP1 then you need a 4 and BOOM trukk goes bye bye and all those boyz inside take a S4 hit, which means 6 wounds (full trukk of 12) and with 6+ armor that means 5 dead orks, now leadership check, they probably fail, do a mob rule test and lose another 1-6 boyz and poof you are left with an almost unusable squad.

Trukk boyz cost anywhere from 130 to 184 pts.

As far as your point that GW can't write balanced rules, I agree 100% but how long do they need to figure out how to balance the game? 7th edition started with the new ork codex being 1st out of the gate, then BOOM Eldar/Necrons/Tau/SM all super powered compared to what they gave the Orks, So GW came out with a Supplement to "Buff" the crappy codex they gave us, of course the Supplement is just as useless with the notable exception of the Green tide formation which was more of a gimmick then actually competitive. So 20 months after they released the Ork Codex, or to put it another way, more then a full year after they released the Necron Decurion codex that made all previous codices useless, they finally release an UPDATED Ork Supplement. This was to give the Orks a decurion style formation and to buff them back up to where they are competitive vs Eldar, Necrons, SM, Tau and others. Instead what they did was copy and pasted the entire previous supplement, remove the gimmicky somewhat effective (if annoying) green tide formation added in the orkurion formation, threw in some tidbits (IE Flyer Formations that are USELESS) and packaged it all together and forced it down our throats.

So again, how long do they need to realize that they made a handful of factions pathetically weak and almost not worth playing against the top tier armies?

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:
So again, how long do they need to realize that they made a handful of factions pathetically weak and almost not worth playing against the top tier armies?

Well 40k is soon to be approaching 30-years-old, if that gives you any idea.

Personally I'm holding out hope that the new CEO will make a difference, because it really seems like GW might finally be trying to make...some kind of change. They've been doing a lot of things since the start of the year that are pretty unorthodox, like the Start Collecting! boxes which are actually good value compared to what they've been doing in recent years (without requiring you to drop the better part of $200-300 to get the discount, either!), there's rumors that they're looking at organized play again, and not only do they kinda have a social media presence again but they're willing to answer rules questions, which will allegedly be compiled into new FAQs (which they've been mostly ignoring for years now). Maybe the updated Ork supplement is the precursor to a surprise Ork update that will come with a couple of kits they were missing and some rules that will finally put them on the same level as every other 7.5 book...kinda like what happened with Tau but reversed.

As for CSM, if their current state is really comparable to Dark Eldar before the big 5th edition revamp then I imagine GW might actually be working on them, it's just taking a while. If I'm not mistaken they said in the old White Dwarf that it took them at least 5 years to do the DE update...though it took them a while to actually get working on it, so DE players ended up having to wait over a decade altogether. Personally I'm hoping there will be a massive CSM update with some of the best models GW have ever done backing it up, because they've really been doing CSM players a disservice ever since late 4th edition and it's about fething time they made up for it.

Dark Eldar actually had only a 9 year wait for their overhaul, as they did receive a 'second printing' that fixed up a few things & added in the missing vehicle upgrades.
CSM's by the end of this year will be hitting the decade mark.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Dark Eldar actually had only a 9 year wait for their overhaul, as they did receive a 'second printing' that fixed up a few things & added in the missing vehicle upgrades.
CSM's by the end of this year will be hitting the decade mark.

I know time flows differently in the EoT and all but I was under the impression that this is the current CSM book, which was released 4 years ago in 2012. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Chaos_Space_Marines_(6th_Edition)

 Grimtuff wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Dark Eldar actually had only a 9 year wait for their overhaul, as they did receive a 'second printing' that fixed up a few things & added in the missing vehicle upgrades.
CSM's by the end of this year will be hitting the decade mark.

I know time flows differently in the EoT and all but I was under the impression that this is the current CSM book, which was released 4 years ago in 2012. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Chaos_Space_Marines_(6th_Edition)

And yet it's nothing more than a bad copy/paste job of our 4th ed codex...
Sure, we've had what was actually a 5th edition book with a couple hastily & badly bolted on 6th ed bitz & a pair of gak supplements.

We're still only 10-15 years out of touch with the basic game itself, with a model line that's so bad we're actually jealous of Sisters! (who at least still look ace, despite their age, and don't have to cannibalise Loyalist/IG ranges just to build their basic damned weapon upgrades! )

Dark Eldar before their re-do we an army that was priced 2 editions out of date and needed a model line overhaul.
CSM's are now an army that's 3 entire editions out of touch with reality, have no identity of their own beyond "Marines -10" in every way, and require an entire model line overhaul.

I really hope that Orks get their rules overhauled soon, alongside Dark Eldar, Blood Angels & Grey Knights. (which is all those armies really need to be fair)
Chaos on the other hand literally needs at least 2-3 solid months of dedicated releases to be fixed at this point.

it has always been the case that orks are the whipping boys. From Battle At The Farm, the scenario in the original Rogue Trader book, the orks have been a fun army that are very very hard to win with. It is no surprise to me that this is still the case 30 years later.

I think a big part of the problem is that Orks in general are in part designed like Tyranids & Guard; huge horde armies of cheap, squishy fodder that's meant to lose 50-60%+ of their numbers.

It's kind of counter-intuitive in any kind of organised gameplay that scores winning/losing in part on how effectively you damage your opponent's forces overall...
Any time a scenario brings in things like Kill Points, or Battle Points based around sheer model/unit removal, armies like Orks are going to be at a huge disadvantage since they're designed in large part to die in droves.

The current edition being hugely biased towards shooting over assault, which is where Orks do the bulk of their own damage, is just the final nail in their coffin.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Dark Eldar actually had only a 9 year wait for their overhaul, as they did receive a 'second printing' that fixed up a few things & added in the missing vehicle upgrades.
CSM's by the end of this year will be hitting the decade mark.

I know time flows differently in the EoT and all but I was under the impression that this is the current CSM book, which was released 4 years ago in 2012. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Chaos_Space_Marines_(6th_Edition)

And yet it's nothing more than a bad copy/paste job of our 4th ed codex...

So? You just said the "second edition" printing of the original Dark Eldar codex, which came with no new models and put in missing upgrades and rules to make the book actually complete (which was still barely pamphlet-sized after the fact), but was otherwise just a copy/paste, counted as an "update" for Dark Eldar and that as such DE players/fans can't claim that they waited over a decade for any real attention, since it was only 9 years (lol).

The 6th edition CSM codex release was a much bigger deal than that, and also came with several new model kits, like most real codex updates do. Not to mention the 6th edition CSM book came out barely four years ago and was the first one out for that edition, when the "average" wait time for codex updates (if you're not a Space Marine player anyway) used to be about 5 years at least, with the exception of DE who waited twice as long, and Space Marines were typically always the first ones out. It wasn't unusual at all for several armies to skip entire editions, it happened to Tau in fact who were updated in 2006, halfway through the 4th edition cycle, and then weren't updated again until halfway through 6th. If the "second edition" codex counts for DE then 6th edition definitely counts for your CSM.

I'm not saying CSM players don't have it bad, but you don't need to exaggerate, either. Don't start changing history or just outright lying to make things seem worse than they actually are for CSM, like suggesting they've waited a decade for any updates whatsoever when they haven't, you personally just didn't like any of the updates they've gotten for the past 3 editions. That doesn't mean you can pretend they didn't happen, though. Like I said, not saying CSM don't need/deserve a massive update (like right fething now), but no matter how bad things are now, it doesn't begin to compare to the mess DE players were in for so long...who have already been screwed over again, after their very brief time in the spotlight during 5th edition, with a gakky codex that can't compete without piggy-backing the Eldar book, and for God only knows how long since I can't imagine this last "update" for DE sold very well on account of that, and GW will be unwilling to invest more time and money into them.

Hell, while we're on the subject of copy/pasted rules, the current Tau codex is almost literally nothing but a copy/paste job of the previous one, with the rules for the new models and formations stuck in...and likewise the 6th edition codex was mostly a bad copy/paste job of the 4th edition book with the rules for the new units stuck in, and some subtle changes here and there making certain units and upgrades unusable so as to force you to buy the new kits or to play in a fashion you might not want to (static gunlines, which if you couldn't tell people are apparently all the rage about). I bet you money though that if I walked around pretending that those updates didn't happen because personally I didn't like the direction they took Tau in, both in the fluff and on the table, or the little bits here and there they've removed along the way, and started complaining years from now about how my Tau have been left out in the cold since 2006 and how they're desperately in need of a revamp, there would be people getting red in the face about it and telling me to check my privilege. The point is copy/paste is what GW does, and has been doing for many, many years now, it just happened to work out better for some armies than others (mostly because of how strongly the core rules are slanted towards shooting, as you pointed out). And as hopeful as I am that things will be different, I wouldn't expect much more than another copy/paste job with the next CSM book...and looking at Age of Sigmar and what GW did to Fantasy last year, I'd say that might actually end up being the best case scenario if we're really unlucky.

Dark Eldar only waited 9 years. They had a huge model wave in 2000/01, which included things like a new Dracon/Archon model, new Incubi w/special weapons, new Hellions, additional Wych models, Lilith, Vect on Dias.
Their 2nd printing was effectively a 'new' codex for them, adding in the missing vehicle upgrades, as well as altering a number of other pts costs. It actually helped boost the army. It was much more akin to how CSM's received the 3.5ed codex, though the DE 'second printing' simply wasn't as massive as the complete overhaul that CSM's got. (and badly needed to boot!)

Their biggest issue was that they then waited those 9 torturous years for another update. They ended up, (like Tau & Orks through all of 5th, and BA's, SW's & 'Crons until they got their updates), simply being over-costed across the board. At their core however, they still functioned. (just, effectively playing with a huge pts handi-cap)
Good players could still get a decent bit of millage out of those books, with the real exception being BA's and their nearly unplayable WD list. (you think DE/Tau/Orks had it bad? You should have seen what BA players were up against - even CSM's weren't THAT bad!)

CSM's on the other hand literally have not been a functioning army since 6th dropped. Their play style is still trying to be a Rhino Rush assault-based army, which the core rules no longer actually allow for. Even at their worst, DE/Tau/Ork/etc... haven't been that awful. (BA's are the only ones who've ever been in a similar boat)
They were a bottom feeder all through 4th & 5th unless you played the "One List to Rule Them All", which was also a complete & utter fluff abomination. They suffered from the same issue that DE/Orks/Tau et all suffered from - being extremely over costed across the board for what you got.
Now however, CSM's may as well not even exist at this point!

Orks main problem is that like Tyranids, they're designed to die in droves, while being at their best in assaults. (and effectively getting the '4th ed CSM' treatment in their 'updated' books)
Dark Eldar's main problem, is that they lack any kind of proper beatstick HQ, and are trying to be the 'extreme glass cannon army' that leans more towards assaults than shooting.
BA's main problem, is that they are a non-specialist assault-based MEQ army who are also missing most of the recent Marine updates.
CSM's however, are still 10-15+ years out of touch with the entire game (due to a lazier than normal copy/paste codex), have no actual identity or uniqueness of their own (because of a purely copy/paste codex), and a model line which is half missing & ancient beyond belief.

The WD BA list in some ways was less of a struggle than the current situation.

Experiment 626 wrote:
We're still only 10-15 years out of touch with the basic game itself, with a model line that's so bad we're actually jealous of Sisters! (who at least still look ace, despite their age, and don't have to cannibalise Loyalist/IG ranges just to build their basic damned weapon upgrades! )

Actually... we do have to do that in some regions, as not all weapon types are sold in all regions. You can always find storm bolters for example, but finding meltas or flamers depends on your region. Because GW just doesn't sell them any more.

Honestly i just use forge world to make up for the ork codex. Big trakks work wonders

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:
I am really not calling into question your playing ability, but I am going to say that you lost because the dice hated you that game. Ork Trukk lists are probably the biggest easy Button in the game for an opponent. Hit a trukk with either some low AP weapons or spam some S5+ shots at it until you get a handful of pens and then wait for the 6 to show up, or if you hit it with AP2 then you need a 5 or if you hit it with AP1 then you need a 4 and BOOM trukk goes bye bye and all those boyz inside take a S4 hit, which means 6 wounds (full trukk of 12) and with 6+ armor that means 5 dead orks, now leadership check, they probably fail, do a mob rule test and lose another 1-6 boyz and poof you are left with an almost unusable squad.

Wasn't about the dice. I'd say without witnessing the said match, it is quite difficult to actually do any meaningful conclusion as there are quite a few factors in each game. It was simply a tough matchup for my army. His list was comprised of Meganobz, Tankbustas and Boyz in Trukks, one tanked by a Lucky Stikk' Warboss. The grav Skyhammer's maximum threat range on the arrival turn is 30", and we were playing a hybrid mission of Eternal War + Maelstrom of War with the Dawn of War -deployment using an ITC inspired rules set that also puts in some factors to the game.

There are 2 options for my list in said match: Do the full alpha strike close and hard, which leads to around 2-4 destroyed Trukks out of which come the Orks, few units perhaps maimed slightly (Orks don't care about Grav.) On the following turn the remaining 5-7 Trukks and their contents charge your lines that Drop Pod'd in and you are lucky if you survive until turn 3. I went for the safer option of deploying further back to maximum range to still take advantage of my alpha a bit, and to gain a turn of shooting at the Ork horde. With the table having enough terrain (just average, not a shooting range, not a labyrinth) it wasn't enough and the Orks hit home. I wasn't tabled but had like 3 units remaining, ending the game 17-3 on the tournament points scale in use. The player was also very good, he placed quite nicely in a 50 player Tournament recently, fighting in the 2nd table. A full Skyhammer alpha list loses quite a bit of its potential after the payload is delivered, and all of it's mobility which leads to the very mobile Orks scoring a lot of objectives. 6 Trukks of Orks comprised of Meganobz and Tankbustas is more than enough to murder Devastators and Assault Marines, the basic Boyz are there just as the icing on the cake. The opponent used a hyper aggressive strategy (the correct one asfar as I'm concerned) forcing my hand and boosting all of the remaining Trukks right next to my lines, making me choose target priority differently than I would've wanted (Meganobz away from the Centurions, instead flooding them with basic Boyz.) The rest of the match was just battling it out and the Trukks riding around scoring objectives.

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:
This was to give the Orks a decurion style formation and to buff them back up to where they are competitive vs Eldar, Necrons, SM, Tau and others.

This is key. This was your expectation, but nothing GW never promised or even advertised to be their intent, and which they in the end did not deliver.

As for your question how long does it take: There is no answer. It might never happen, or it might. As we can see from the example above, GW doesn't create the content with the goal in mind that corresponds to yours. You are waiting for a balanced game and the Orks faction being on par with other more competitive choices: There is no evidence of any intent of GW to make it so. Instead their agenda seems to be creating "cool stuff" with the game balance not being a high priority. Therefore you are possibly waiting for something that doesn't have any inclination of becoming a reality as the effort to make it happen isn't even there (maybe.) Alternatively balance might be a priority, but they are just not doing a very solid job at it, but I think the former is more likely.

A lot of disappointment spawns from this very thing: A player expecting something the company has never even promised, hinted at, or advertised. A wish turned into an expectation with a basis of intent that was possibly never there.

 Vankraken wrote:

Most of the stuff like the Smasha Gun is random purely for the sake of random and doesn't really offer much in the way of excitement or gameplay variety. The old Ramshackle rule was fun because it caused interesting things to happen. Often times Orks have RNG that's negative purely for the sake of making something stupid (not fun) happen such as the Cowardly Grot rule for Killa Kans (yeah pseudo morale checks for my walkers, oh boy such compelling gameplay). Mob Rule is the same where you feel like your special rule is a penalty but your getting little in return.

That's really the meat of it in that the RNG isn't really fun. A Smasha Gun isn't exciting when all it does is either have enough strength to potentially penetrate armor (still got to roll all your to hit, to armor pen, saves, etc) or it doesn't and just plinks off the vehicle armor. Cowardly Grot rule makes my already underperforming Killa Kans unable to fire the only decent gun they have (grotzooka). Mob Rule kills more of my models after they already lost a decent amount of models because Orks have terrible leadership. RNG that is interesting are things like the Jokereo who randomly upgrade the squad with some modifier, it has a negative (does nothing), 4 positive results of various usefulness, and a jackpot that is 2 upgrades. Your rolling the dice to get something and you might get nothing or it might be something really cool, Ork RNG for the most part lacks that and feels more like a pass fail check being tacked onto the other dice rolls we are already needing to make (to hit, to wound, etc). Orks need less fizzle and a lot more BIG BOOM in their random stuff to make it interesting.

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:
Just because I am bored I thought I would list a bunch of the Nerfs from the 4th edition Codex to the current 7th edition codex

1: Deff Rollaz, effectively gone from the game, went from 2D6 S10 hits to D3 auto hits ONLY if the unit chooses to death or glory, translation, useless
2: Ghaz, Lost 1 bonus attack on the charge, lost his 5++. stayed the same point cost. Only 225pt character I know of in this game without an invul save.
3: Cybork, Went from granting user a 5++ to giving the user a 6+ FNP
4: Killa Kanz, Went up in price from 35pts a model to 50! Lost the use of dreadnought CCW, So instead of having S10 attacks they have S7 attacks now.
5:Warbikes, lost there 4+ cover save, replaced with Jink. Because you know Ork shootin is already to good and needs to be nerfed.
6:Flash Gitz, Lost 4+ armor and got 6+ armor
7: Mob Rule, going from using model count for your leadership to the current system is a major nerf, I have seen arguments stating otherwise but the fact is the numbers don't add up. The current argument is that its good for smaller units....no, not its not. For small units the only benefit is if you roll a 2 or 3, and your nob is still alive, otherwise its GG still.
8: Ork Boyz, now have to pay for there Rng18, S4 AP6 Assault 2 shoota, not worth it.
9: Ork Boyz NOB, can no longer independently take Eavy Armor.
10: Mad Dok, used to give the option to give ANYONE in your army a 5++ for 5 pts a model. Anyone, including Meganobz. Who wouldn't pay for that nowadays?
11: Special Characters, Bye bye Wazdakka and Zogwort
12: Nobz, actually dropped 2pts a model ( of course they raised the price of Bikes for Nobz by 2pts) lost the ability to upgrade to a painboy for 30pts.
13: BattleWagonz, went up 20pts in price, but the KillKannon dropped 30pts!!!!! of course nobody takes it because its a Rng 24 S7 AP3 Ordinance weapon which is useless on a transport.


I could go on for a bit longer but I really just depressed myself a lot. Mostly I just miss my Battlewagonz running around with Deff Rollaz ramming things.

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:

Ork Trukk lists are probably the biggest easy Button in the game for an opponent. Hit a trukk with either some low AP weapons or spam some S5+ shots at it until you get a handful of pens and then wait for the 6 to show up, or if you hit it with AP2 then you need a 5 or if you hit it with AP1 then you need a 4 and BOOM trukk goes bye bye and all those boyz inside take a S4 hit, which means 6 wounds (full trukk of 12) and with 6+ armor that means 5 dead orks, now leadership check, they probably fail, do a mob rule test and lose another 1-6 boyz and poof you are left with an almost unusable squad.

Trukk boyz cost anywhere from 130 to 184 pts.

Ramshackle was great because it was a "consolation prize" that had the potential to not be a consolation prize.
As your example with jokaro, there was no penalty involved in ramshackle, just the chance that you didn't get a bonus.

Shokk attack gun and Deffguns are just about the only RNG weapons in the current codex that don't have gakky RNG characteristics.
Shokk attack gun is usually pretty good, and the RNG is balanced "about right". (also back when it came in it was an acceptable trade off for a potentially great AP pie plate. these days it feels like high(low) AP pie plates are the norm, so it no longer feels like you're getting something special for your added risk)
Deffguns at least have reliable stats, but sometimes you get way more or way less shots. It's a totally different effect to "roll to see if your AP is high enough to be useful" (
It's not much of a mechanical change, it's just like a super great round of rolling to hit, or super bad round. (the difference between doing some damage or totally decimating)

Same with old mob rule. It used to be a decent bonus to big units and a no change to small ones.
But then they changed it to a slight bonus to big units (kind of, but not really) and a severe penalty to small elite units.
(Also with the new changes to exploding vehicles and pinning you take damage when the orks are expelled from the vehicle, take damage for failing your pinning test and then take damage for taking %25 casualties. considering your units only have a 6+ save and max of 12 units in a trukk you only need to suffer 4 casualties from the explosion and failing the pinning test to incur the 25% morale test. you're looking at some serious casualties just from mob rule alone and with a starting size of only 12 you're now looking at, on average, 5 from the explosion (strength 4 with 6+ sv), 3 from the initial mob rule test and another 3 from the second. That's 11 out of 12 models worth of indirect damage.)

The other stuff is just "roll to see if it's effective or not"
There's no point in taking Anti-Armour weapons that sometimes aren't anti-armour.
I'm honestly better off taking guardsmen as allies and modeling them as grots with helmets.


When all is said and done though, you can choose to embrace the random effect tables or mitigate them with judicious army list choices/allies.
There is nothing to be done about ramshackle or mob rule.

Despite all the other nerfs or problems people are pointing out, i honestly think that if we still had the old ramshackle rule and old mob rule we'd be in a pretty good spot. Not great, but certainly not bad.
But with the changes to ramshackle and mob rule, trukks (and small units in general) are fething useless. Combine this with all the other nerfs listed and the general buffs to the Shooting Phase in 7th, and nerfs to cc in 7th (i.e. overwatch, random charge rolls, remove casualties from the front, challenges etc.) Orks are in a sorry state if you do anything other than a select few min/max builds.

GW doesn't hate orks. They just hate YOUR particular army.


*applicable to all readers