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Title

Why wouldn't it?

 CrownAxe wrote:
Why wouldn't it?

Because the Rider is different (model and stats wise) from the chariot

I'd say no, it counts as two for the purposes of rampage

Please see 'Chariots' (pg. 86, main rulebook) specifically the second sentence of the first paragraph.

commander dante wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Why wouldn't it?

Because the Rider is different (model and stats wise) from the chariot

That is half correct. Stats are different, but it is all considered the same model.

Base question on this is which Chariot we are talking about. Most Rider Chariots are set up as an upgrade to an IC, and not just a Rider/Chariot out of the gate.

Look at it like this:
It's one model that's got two statlines.

 Charistoph wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Why wouldn't it?

Because the Rider is different (model and stats wise) from the chariot

That is half correct. Stats are different, but it is all considered the same model.

Base question on this is which Chariot we are talking about. Most Rider Chariots are set up as an upgrade to an IC, and not just a Rider/Chariot out of the gate.

There aren't any chariots that retain IC when thay turn into a chariot anymore

 Ghaz wrote:
Please see 'Chariots' (pg. 86, main rulebook) specifically the second sentence of the first paragraph.

Here is the rule since I guess they didn't want to look it up...

“A Chariot is an unusual unit with a dual profile – ​
a non-vehicle profile for the rider of the Chariot ​
(see below), and a vehicle profile for the Chariot itself. However, a Chariot is always treated as a single model. ”

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Why wouldn't it?

Because the Rider is different (model and stats wise) from the chariot

That is half correct. Stats are different, but it is all considered the same model.

Base question on this is which Chariot we are talking about. Most Rider Chariots are set up as an upgrade to an IC, and not just a Rider/Chariot out of the gate.

There aren't any chariots that retain IC when thay turn into a chariot anymore

Which has zero bearing on the question at hand or the reason behind my question. The only model that is currently set as a Rider/Chariot from the word go is the Catacomb Command Barge. Santa Grimnar starts as an Infantry model and upgrades to the Chariot. Same for the Daemon Heralds.

The reason for my question is if Rampage came as part of the Infantry ID and then upgraded to the Chariot, or if it was applied after the Chariot unit type was established. If it is the latter, the question then is pointed towards being at the whole model, as it is usually a Formation SR or Warlord Trait. If it is attached to the IC, then unless the bonus states otherwise, it would still apply to the model. However, in some cases some rules are split between Rider and Chariot (Reanimation Protocols and Living Metal, for example).

So, knowing where the Rider/Chariot is coming from is pertinent to the determination and has zero bearing on the lack of retention of IC status when upgraded to a Chariot.

 Charistoph wrote:
Which has zero bearing on the question at hand or the reason behind my question. The only model that is currently set as a Rider/Chariot from the word go is the Catacomb Command Barge. Santa Grimnar starts as an Infantry model and upgrades to the Chariot. Same for the Daemon Heralds.

This is incorrect. The chariots Slaanesh can purchase--Hellflayers, Seeker Chariots and Exalted Seeker Chariots--have a non-Herald rider that comes standard. Heralds do have the option to get a chariot upgrade, as well, but the base chariot options come with riders.

The reason for my question is if Rampage came as part of the Infantry ID and then upgraded to the Chariot, or if it was applied after the Chariot unit type was established. If it is the latter, the question then is pointed towards being at the whole model, as it is usually a Formation SR or Warlord Trait. If it is attached to the IC, then unless the bonus states otherwise, it would still apply to the model. However, in some cases some rules are split between Rider and Chariot (Reanimation Protocols and Living Metal, for example).

So, knowing where the Rider/Chariot is coming from is pertinent to the determination and has zero bearing on the lack of retention of IC status when upgraded to a Chariot.

For the purposes of Rampage the requirement is to look at the model count. Whether the Chariot is an upgrade or not is moot. The entire construct is one model. If the rules allow the IC to survive and be placed on the board after its chariot is destroyed you're still looking at one model: one with a chariot, one without a chariot.

Tropic Thunder wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Which has zero bearing on the question at hand or the reason behind my question. The only model that is currently set as a Rider/Chariot from the word go is the Catacomb Command Barge. Santa Grimnar starts as an Infantry model and upgrades to the Chariot. Same for the Daemon Heralds.

This is incorrect. The chariots Slaanesh can purchase--Hellflayers, Seeker Chariots and Exalted Seeker Chariots--have a non-Herald rider that comes standard. Heralds do have the option to get a chariot upgrade, as well, but the base chariot options come with riders.

I stand corrected. Daemons are not my standard fair. I had thought that the Chariots that were not rides for Heralds did not have a Rider included. Having reviewed the codex after I read your response, I see you are correct.

Tropic Thunder wrote:

The reason for my question is if Rampage came as part of the Infantry ID and then upgraded to the Chariot, or if it was applied after the Chariot unit type was established. If it is the latter, the question then is pointed towards being at the whole model, as it is usually a Formation SR or Warlord Trait. If it is attached to the IC, then unless the bonus states otherwise, it would still apply to the model. However, in some cases some rules are split between Rider and Chariot (Reanimation Protocols and Living Metal, for example).
So, knowing where the Rider/Chariot is coming from is pertinent to the determination and has zero bearing on the lack of retention of IC status when upgraded to a Chariot.

For the purposes of Rampage the requirement is to look at the model count. Whether the Chariot is an upgrade or not is moot. The entire construct is one model. If the rules allow the IC to survive and be placed on the board after its chariot is destroyed you're still looking at one model: one with a chariot, one without a chariot.

Apologies again, I wasn't looking at it from the perspective of activating the rule, but rather who would benefit from it.

As for activating it, yes it would be just one model.

 Charistoph wrote:
I stand corrected. Daemons are not my standard fair. I had thought that the Chariots that were not rides for Heralds did not have a Rider included. Having reviewed the codex after I read your response, I see you are correct.

No worries on either count. I love me my Slaanesh. With the recent release of Curse of the Wulfen and the new Grand Cavalcade formation, I kinda went wild at my FLGS and bought a bunch of chariots of all kinds. I also pored over all the chariot rules in both the codex and BRB six times over just so I don't screw my rules up when I finally field them.

I saw a dude field the massive slaanesh chariot formation. Went against Tau. I thought he was toast, but Tau couldn't kill them all turn 1 and the dude got an easy turn 2 charge. HoW melted half of everything he charged, it was insane!