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I'm using both Vallejo gray spray can primer and recently I use the Vallejo-acrylic-polyurethane with a hand brush.
The problem is that no matter what I do, the paint scratches of with the top of my nail - both can primer and hand to brush primer. And I don't even have to invest strength in order to pill off the paint it is really annoying.
Here are the steps I do:
- Wash the minis with warm water and soap.
- Let them dry then apply the primer. (Im aware that for spray it has to be warm weather etc, but this happens with hairbrush primer as well)
- Wait 24 hours.
The primer can still be scratched with the top of my nail...
I am clueless what to do. In the past I've used Tamiya/Chaos Black or car primer. They all apply nice BUT, when I make the basecoat I hit the same wall. The base color simply peels off when I touch the mini.... :( :( :(

Please let me is that suppose to happen and that my only resolution is to Varnish the painted minuature, because I have absolutely no Idea what I am doing wrong.

Make sure the soap you're using is something like a cheap dish soap, they don't have the conditioners that hand/body soaps have in them.

Make sure you aren't handling the model much between washing it, applying primer and applying paint so you aren't getting finger grease on it. Personally my hands seem to be rather acidic, not sure why, the printing on my keyboard wears off rather quickly. So I try and wash my hands with dish soap before handling my models while working on them, or even use cheap disposable gloves. Note that's only when I'm working on the models, after a week or so the paint toughens up so I don't wear gloves while playing actual games

If that's not producing paint that is tough enough, well, water based acrylics just aren't all that tough. A good gloss varnish will help, some are tougher than others.

You can swap to a tougher paint, but tougher paints are almost always harder to work with and create more fumes. Vallejo's brush on primer is polyurethane, polyurethanes are supposed to be tough but I've never found Vallejo's primer to be exceptionally tough, I think it just doesn't adhere very well to plastic. I've never used their spray can primer though.

Also saying you can scratch it with your nail doesn't mean much to me, I can scratch damned near any paint off any plastic model with my nail if I dig it in deep enough

I think I will make a research on varnishes. I know the mini is not supposed to be scratched with nails, but sometimes this is frustrating me.

If you want primer that can't be scratched off with your fingernail, use Army Painter. After a few days (when it cures), not only will it not come off with your fingernails, but it won't come off with anything else, either

On the other hand, you're going to paint your miniature (I assume), post priming, and that paint will scratch off with your fingernails.

So, like you said, you can varnish it to be more scratch resistant. But at the end of the day... the solution is to just handle your miniatures less (pick them up by the base, etc), as the oils and such on your hands don't help the longevity of the models anyhow.

I stated this in another thread, but it's relevant here too.

Vallejo -Grey- Surface primer is crap as far as "straight to model" durability goes. If you search around the net you will find lots of people saying the same as you have.

It just does not adhere or bond with the material it's sprayed onto, and will chip and peal off in large quantities.

The only successful way I've been able to use it, is to put it down over a previous smooth coat of their black primer, then it seems to bond and stick very well.

However for your issues with base coats scratching off so easily, it sounds to me like they are either very very thin coats, or they are not fully setting end curing. Which while dry to the touch, a lot of acrylics (I've noticed especially with GW and Vallejo air and standard) still need time to set to full hardness.

That plus a hearty varnish should help relieve your issues. Hopefully!

There's always the issue where people mix up "Grey Primer" the shade of grey and actual primer that is grey.

That quite possibly contributes a lot to people's complaints.

Are you priming a metal model or a plastic/resin one? I've heard people complaining about vallejo primer specifically with metal miniatures. I haven't had a problem, but I also always wear gloves now and varnish the metal mini between coats (not just priming) to avoid any paint wearing off.

As other's say, make sure you are cleaning the mini with something like a detergent so you don't have those oils etc on it, left over afterwards.

This is the vallejo primer I use, either in my airbrush or as a brush on.

Is it very humid where you are? that also can contribute to paint/primer not sticking well, one of the reasons I usually use a brush on primer.

If you have a nice non-humid environment where you can use a rattle can primer, I'd see about Krylon's flat white and blacks. They're pretty cheap, and work nicely. I've not had trouble with them adhering, except again with humidity.

 Guildenstern wrote:
Are you priming a metal model or a plastic/resin one? I've heard people complaining about vallejo primer specifically with metal miniatures. I haven't had a problem, but I also always wear gloves now and varnish the metal mini between coats (not just priming) to avoid any paint wearing off.

Honestly, the fact that you have to varnish the figure between coats just shows how terrible Vallejo primers are.

OP (and everybody else), avoid them at all costs.

Thanks everyone for joining the conversation.
Just to clarify, Im painting plastic cidatel miniatures, for example now I am doing Thunder wolf Cavalry; I am using black primer (for handbrush) and before that grey (spray can) but I ditched the can..
Also, the citadel paint can be scratched even when it's applied on chaos black or even tamiya.

I've spent nearly 50 bucks over primers and Im still not satisfied. I guess I will have to varnish...

I've had good results with Krylon spray cans in black, white, and ivory colours. I have to contend with 55% to 65% relative humidity and 7°C to 10°C temperatures when spraying, but store the cans at 18°C until I'm ready to shake and use.
Another spray paint product you might want to try is from the Radio Control Car hobby. Several different makers produce spray paints that bond to plastic surfaces. The stuff never wears off unless you repeatedly grind it on asphalt. It takes gw paint alright. But it cost a lot more then regular spray paint.

I'm only using citadel black spray. After trying it (and having troubles with vallejo before that), I don't want to look at anything else. Just that its quite hard/ expensive to get in my country

I have never had any problem with the black Vallejo PU primer. I find it very durable and easy to use. I do not know if the white and gray primer is different.

Just to be clear her, how are you scratching it? paint is super weak until it has cured, so the fact it's scratching off might not be very surprising if you're poking at it shortly after it goes on.

 goblinzz wrote:
Just to be clear her, how are you scratching it? paint is super weak until it has cured, so the fact it's scratching off might not be very surprising if you're poking at it shortly after it goes on.

It scratched couple of hours after priming. Then I decide to come back after 24 hours. Still pills off :(
It does not scratch that much on the Thunderwolves thou but on the space marin its terrible...

Is it coming off in sheets? Or can you scratch a line only?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Guildenstern wrote:
Are you priming a metal model or a plastic/resin one? I've heard people complaining about vallejo primer specifically with metal miniatures. I haven't had a problem, but I also always wear gloves now and varnish the metal mini between coats (not just priming) to avoid any paint wearing off.

Honestly, the fact that you have to varnish the figure between coats just shows how terrible Vallejo primers are.

OP (and everybody else), avoid them at all costs.

I'm not varnishing because of the primer, but because of the miniature being metal. After redoing Ikit Claw a couple times, I got very paranoid about metal miniatures and simply do it as a matter of course now. When I've had better weather I've used the Krylon flat black and also do this with metal miniatures. I figure it's better to give them a little extra toughness anyway, since most of the ones I paint are actually handled quite a lot.