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Fragile wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
Wow... I never even realized the potential of this RAW. Time to daisy chain my blobs to get void shielded blobs anywhere on the board! LMAO. Oh you just fired your heavy flamer into my blob? SORRY IT DOES NOTHING You'll have to bust through 2 void shields first!. The shenanigans that could be pulled with this are almost as ridiculous as the skyshield.

Be prepared to run out of people willing to play you pretty quickly. TO's often rule against doing this and in friendly games it's an incredibly abusive thing to do

Can you give any studies or hard statistics that back up your claim? I've never seen a TO rule against this, so "often" sounds extremely exaggerated to me. And playing against it wouldn't be very difficult--you just need the mobility to get into 12" yourself and then his blob doesn't have the shield anymore.

Statistics. If you have access to nationwide statistics on local gaming tournaments, I would be very interested in seeing them. But all the TOs within an hour drive from me play it as only the models within 12" get the benefit, so YMMV.

Yeah, I'm situated about halfway between Philadelphia and Baltimore and have attended many events at a wide variety of locations. I've never seen a TO allow the "daisy chain" shield coverage. In any case, a large number of players consider it exploitative and counter to author's intent, so if you try it in a casual game, you should expect to alienate this same large number of players.

 Lord Scythican wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
Wow... I never even realized the potential of this RAW. Time to daisy chain my blobs to get void shielded blobs anywhere on the board! LMAO. Oh you just fired your heavy flamer into my blob? SORRY IT DOES NOTHING You'll have to bust through 2 void shields first!. The shenanigans that could be pulled with this are almost as ridiculous as the skyshield.

I was thinking the same thing. Imagine doing a IG blob with 50 conscripts out in front and all of them benefiting from the VSG.

Egh the only extreme use for it was the ork green Tide to get it into combat. Even then it wasn't top table strong. Conscripts are still just conscripts with vsg and best use is a tarpit unit and the vsg doesn't work in cc. Your still better off taking azreal for 4++ to thr unit at least he helps give the conscripts some offense.

As I said before the vsg is one of the worst writen rules. The unit wording isn't even the worst part. The fact that it's not a building or vehicle but tells you to use the armour penetration rules in the vehicle section causes all sorts of rules issues.

Can you imagine the lunacy of having a blob if IG conscripts surrounding a Paskstar, with the conscripts magically protected by a void shield, but not the tanks? Stupid...

 goblinzz wrote:
Can you imagine the lunacy of having a blob if IG conscripts surrounding a Paskstar, with the conscripts magically protected by a void shield, but not the tanks? Stupid...

And this is the most unbelievable thing for you in a game of aliens, super-soldiers, daemons, and witchcraft?

But seriously, the situation you described would be an accurate RAW interpretation. However, there are plenty of other rules that don't "make sense" as far as logic and realism go. It's a game and, more importantly, it's an abstraction of a battlefield situation.

This being said, the objective of 40k is to have fun. If it's going to make you upset every game, ask your opponents to house-rule it and perhaps you'll feel better.

DoW

 goblinzz wrote:
Ok guys, thanks to those that provided direct support and explanation via pointing to me the right sections of the rules. I now understand better the position that it covers the whole unit.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm of the opinion that it wasn't really meant to daisy chain all the way across the board with a green tide, but clearly, RAW, it can be interpreted as doing so. Great, more rules abuse...

It's only rules abuse because you are playing against it.

Are you asking people to voluntarily play it your way even though RAW is clear and RAI is about as up in the air as it can get?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
Wow... I never even realized the potential of this RAW. Time to daisy chain my blobs to get void shielded blobs anywhere on the board! LMAO. Oh you just fired your heavy flamer into my blob? SORRY IT DOES NOTHING You'll have to bust through 2 void shields first!. The shenanigans that could be pulled with this are almost as ridiculous as the skyshield.

Be prepared to run out of people willing to play you pretty quickly. TO's often rule against doing this and in friendly games it's an incredibly abusive thing to do

Can you give any studies or hard statistics that back up your claim? I've never seen a TO rule against this, so "often" sounds extremely exaggerated to me. And playing against it wouldn't be very difficult--you just need the mobility to get into 12" yourself and then his blob doesn't have the shield anymore.

Statistics. If you have access to nationwide statistics on local gaming tournaments, I would be very interested in seeing them. But all the TOs within an hour drive from me play it as only the models within 12" get the benefit, so YMMV.

Yeah, I'm situated about halfway between Philadelphia and Baltimore and have attended many events at a wide variety of locations. I've never seen a TO allow the "daisy chain" shield coverage. In any case, a large number of players consider it exploitative and counter to author's intent, so if you try it in a casual game, you should expect to alienate this same large number of players.

I mean if you allow it to cover a squad of 10 horrors that are only partially within the 12'' you have to give that same respect to deathstars as well, right? Can't have it both ways.

Sure you'll alienate a casual group of gamers but the model has a great purpose in competitive tournaments.

 Aijec wrote:

 goblinzz wrote:
Ok guys, thanks to those that provided direct support and explanation via pointing to me the right sections of the rules. I now understand better the position that it covers the whole unit.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm of the opinion that it wasn't really meant to daisy chain all the way across the board with a green tide, but clearly, RAW, it can be interpreted as doing so. Great, more rules abuse...

It's only rules abuse because you are playing against it.

Are you asking people to voluntarily play it your way even though RAW is clear and RAI is about as up in the air as it can get?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
Wow... I never even realized the potential of this RAW. Time to daisy chain my blobs to get void shielded blobs anywhere on the board! LMAO. Oh you just fired your heavy flamer into my blob? SORRY IT DOES NOTHING You'll have to bust through 2 void shields first!. The shenanigans that could be pulled with this are almost as ridiculous as the skyshield.

Be prepared to run out of people willing to play you pretty quickly. TO's often rule against doing this and in friendly games it's an incredibly abusive thing to do

Can you give any studies or hard statistics that back up your claim? I've never seen a TO rule against this, so "often" sounds extremely exaggerated to me. And playing against it wouldn't be very difficult--you just need the mobility to get into 12" yourself and then his blob doesn't have the shield anymore.

Statistics. If you have access to nationwide statistics on local gaming tournaments, I would be very interested in seeing them. But all the TOs within an hour drive from me play it as only the models within 12" get the benefit, so YMMV.

Yeah, I'm situated about halfway between Philadelphia and Baltimore and have attended many events at a wide variety of locations. I've never seen a TO allow the "daisy chain" shield coverage. In any case, a large number of players consider it exploitative and counter to author's intent, so if you try it in a casual game, you should expect to alienate this same large number of players.

I mean if you allow it to cover a squad of 10 horrors that are only partially within the 12'' you have to give that same respect to deathstars as well, right? Can't have it both ways.

Sure you'll alienate a casual group of gamers but the model has a great purpose in competitive tournaments.

I flat out find that having a void shield generator cover 36" of board by daisy-chaining a green tide or equivalent is exploitative. I will happily play against it, since that is apparently the way it works, but I have a very hard time classifying that mechanic as anything other than abusive. I'd also point out that since the tournament scene seems fairly evenly split about whether it is treated as being a solid 12", or if it can be extended, then I am not alone in feeling that way.

Only one model in a unit has to be Shrouded for the whole unit to get the benefits of it. Is conga lining a Void Shield Generator effect really that much more illogical and exploitative than one Chaos Sorcerer* magically making his 50 plague zombie buddies a lot harder to hurt when they are stretched across the board?

*from i.e the Crimson Slaughter WL Trait

Tournaents regularly change clearly written rules because they view it as balanced or more logical or whatnot (the ITC nerfing Invisibility and D-weapons, the ETC giving super-heavy walkers 180degree LOS). They're free to do so, but it's their house rules and not necessarily a correct interpretation of the rules.

I think we're all agreed on whether it works RAW, but RAI is never 100% clear.

We're left to discuss whether or not to play the RAW