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2016/05/06 08:24:02
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Well, back into the "Privateer Press can go feth themselves" category.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2016/05/06 17:31:21
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Not of fan of getting strong armed by silly purchasing regulations.
Especially when it exists to "force" people to continue to support an outdated and near-obsolete business model just so they can proudly say they support local businesses. It would be like if distributors said they refused to let Wal-Mart purchase goods because they can offer better deals than the Mom-and-Pop store can. That's essentially what this ridiculousness is; PP is taking it upon themselves to defend the poor downtrodden shop owners who are being put out of business and forced to sell their children and pets into slavery to make ends meet thanks to the evil faceless online retailers that can offer fat discounts due to not having to pay rent for real space.
- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame
2016/05/06 18:41:55
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
You know, I for one applaud any effort to support the LGS. I do 90% of my gaming through FLGS, multiple in my are and previous area where I used to live.
Just because some people don't play primarily at their FLGS doesn't mean the FLGS doesn't provide a valuable service for others.
2016/05/08 05:57:35
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Killionaire wrote: Just because some people don't play primarily at their FLGS doesn't mean the FLGS doesn't provide a valuable service for others.
I too play and buy at the FLGS, and completely agree with your statement.
I still feel it's wrong for people who don't have a good LGS nearby to pay for my services.
Especially when the extra money doesn't actually do that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/08 05:58:22
Nosebiter wrote: Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army.
2016/05/08 08:27:27
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
ced1106 wrote: Update, Miniature Market discount is now 25%:
judgedoug wrote: Miniature Market once again stands up to Privateer Press
So, I wonder if someone can change the thread title?
Original Post:
Spoiler:
From Miniature Market:
Note: In an effort to prevent us from selling their products at our current discount, Privateer Press has threatened to delay our new item shipments to our distribution partners. As a result, there is a chance that new item purchases could be delayed by 7-14 days past their release date. We have no intentions of raising our prices or ceasing to carry Privateer Press products. Let your voice be heard by contacting Privateer Press
PRIVATEER AXES OFFENDING ONLINE RETAILERS
'We Do Not Condone the Free Riders' Parasitic Business Model'
Privateer Press, makers of Warmachine and Hordes, has announced a new sales policy which it hopes will end deeply discounted online sales.
In the letter sent out to retailers, Privateer Press President Sherry Yeary explained the rationale. “Over the last eleven years… online retailers with nearly no overhead and very little meaningful contact with our audience have been undermining the stability of the market by selling product at discounts well below retail value, depending solely on the efforts of our brick and mortar partners who offer services that nurture our audience and grow the market to move their product,” she wrote. “This model of business is widely recognized by experts and the justice system as ‘free riding.’ While this can be a viable business model for many mainstream products, it is common knowledge that in our industry it’s crippling and anticompetitive.”
Privateer plans to create a list of retailers that it views as “free riders,” which it defines as “retailers …offering Privateer Press products at an unsustainable deep discount and offer[ing] very little or nothing in the way of services” and will impose sanctions on distributors that sell to those retailers. The list will be updated by adding or deleting retailers as needed. Distributors that sell to retailers on Privateer’s “free rider” list will have their shipments of Privateer product, including new releases, delayed. The new policy goes into effect on April 4.
“We do not condone the free riders’ parasitic business model and elect to both continue and enhance our partnerships with those distributors that share our point of view and actively work in the best interests of the brick-and-mortar retailers,” Yeary continued. “While we cannot and would not dictate to our distributor partners who they can or cannot sell to, we believe free riders are eroding the foundation of our industry and hurting our business; only with the cooperation of our distribution partners can we prevent that.”
The letter also states online sales can continue, as “(w)e also recognize that online retailers provide access to the product to some customers who do not have ready access to a local brick-and-mortar store. We hope those online retailers with integrity and the foresight to protect the longevity and availability of the product lines providing their income will swiftly adjust any retailing practices that are counterproductive to the health of our industry.”
No maximum discount off retail price or other quantifiable measure of “counterproductive” business practices was outlined in Privateer’s letter, which said only that the process of creating the list would rely on an “internal evaluation process.” Nor was there any discussion of how Privateer will handle brick and mortar retailers that also sell online, for example as Amazon third party sellers, a growing trend.
ICv2 noted the growing channel conflict between brick and mortar game stores and online sellers (many of whom are also brick and mortar retailers disposing of excess inventory as Amazon third party sellers) in its most recent issue of Internal Correspondence #89 (see “Seven Years of Plenty in the Hobby Games Business”). And Privateer’s store support is definitely being affected by the problem, according to the report. Retailer Gary Ray of Black Diamond Games in Concord, California, for example, dropped Privateer products because of channel conflict. “There is a huge demand for the game, but everybody is buying it online at a discount,” Ray said of Warmachine. “It got down to one turn per year and we dropped it.”
Privateer is the latest in a growing list of manufacturers addressing the channel conflict between brick-and-mortar and online retailers. Asmodee NA has a policy going into effect in April, and discusses similar reasons why the “one-size-fits-all” system of distribution has undermined the financial position of Friendly Local Game Stores which offer additional services and community in addition to selling games (see “ICv2 Interview: Asmodee North America CEO Christian Petersen, Part 2”). WizKids introduced a policy limiting preorders on new HeroClix product last year (see “Rolling for Initiative--Kudos to WizKids” and Mayfair Games has a long-standing policy limiting online discount as well (see “Online Discounting of Games - One Year Later”).
So what the heck is going on here, I swear the OP changes by the hour.
Heck, the subject line and the update in the OP contradict one another!
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2016/05/08 08:37:34
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
The horrible flaw is the assumption that raising online prices will drive sales to the FLGS when it is extremely likely that the people who bought online will continue to buy online. They'll either buy less because of the prices or switch to different manufacturers.
And that's ignoring the other flaw: this policy doesn't even work. The cheap eBay and Amazon sellers continue to exist.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/08 08:38:38
2016/05/08 10:16:00
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
The current Ebay seller I buy from, DGS is going to cap their discount to 10% as well. But they're now offering free international shipping for PP stuff apparently, so that works for me too
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/05/08 18:44:31
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Laughing Man wrote: With all the yoyoing, does anyone really think Privateer's going to take them off the list?
*Shrug* Well, I have taken Privateer Press off of my list.
They have gone from 'I have not bought in a while' to 'I will not buy from them and will actively speak out against them'.
Smooth move, Privateer!
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2016/05/08 20:43:05
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Sining wrote: The current Ebay seller I buy from, DGS is going to cap their discount to 10% as well. But they're now offering free international shipping for PP stuff apparently, so that works for me too
The bizarre thing about capping the discount at 10% is... it's mandating the online guys take more profit. So, maybe places like MM end up with radically discounted shipping, maybe they have different promotions (they already have a MM points system that translates to cents off other items, they can just expand this system).
When it comes down to purchasing, other then the crappy quality of much of PP's miniatures, the biggest obstacle is PP's huge number of SKUs. At the local place I go to play, they stock a lot of PP, but it never seems to include the things I want. As long as their line is so large and so difficult to keep in stock, I don't foresee any real shift in people's buying habits.
If the choice is I can get something at MM for 10% off, no tax (since I'm not in their state) and free shipping, versus having my FLGS special order it (taking Lord knows how long...), then paying full retail +tax, why would I choose local? The only reason would be if the local was making up for this somehow... but then I would already be buying from them!
I wonder if they'll do what they've done for Flames of War? For those who don't know, they give bonus rewards points on Flames of War stuff because there's a discount limit. So, you get essentially $5 of store credit by buying certain things.
This kind of circles back to my main argument: blocking discounters doesn't work. There's enough online retailers trying to compete that they WILL find ways to undercut each other.
2016/05/09 01:29:05
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Sining wrote: The current Ebay seller I buy from, DGS is going to cap their discount to 10% as well. But they're now offering free international shipping for PP stuff apparently, so that works for me too
The bizarre thing about capping the discount at 10% is... it's mandating the online guys take more profit. So, maybe places like MM end up with radically discounted shipping, maybe they have different promotions (they already have a MM points system that translates to cents off other items, they can just expand this system).
When it comes down to purchasing, other then the crappy quality of much of PP's miniatures, the biggest obstacle is PP's huge number of SKUs. At the local place I go to play, they stock a lot of PP, but it never seems to include the things I want. As long as their line is so large and so difficult to keep in stock, I don't foresee any real shift in people's buying habits.
If the choice is I can get something at MM for 10% off, no tax (since I'm not in their state) and free shipping, versus having my FLGS special order it (taking Lord knows how long...), then paying full retail +tax, why would I choose local? The only reason would be if the local was making up for this somehow... but then I would already be buying from them!
MM has something called FiM (Fedex International Mail) which seems a lot cheaper than any other online discounter I've bought from in the past. Shipping a kodiak + 1 blister of WMH stuff to Singapore only cost me about 5 usd, which is less than the markup local stores have on their products
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/05/09 03:35:55
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Sining wrote: The current Ebay seller I buy from, DGS is going to cap their discount to 10% as well. But they're now offering free international shipping for PP stuff apparently, so that works for me too
The bizarre thing about capping the discount at 10% is... it's mandating the online guys take more profit. So, maybe places like MM end up with radically discounted shipping, maybe they have different promotions (they already have a MM points system that translates to cents off other items, they can just expand this system).
I suggested something like this after the first time they dropped the discount to 10%. Triple (or whatever ) bonus points would work out the same in the long run, and has the nice incentive to MM of helping to guarantee future purchases (even non PP purchases) come from them as well. Its a bit of a hassle for everyone involved, but the boost to repeat business should make it worthwhile for them,
2016/05/29 18:00:45
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Wow... I was not expecting the local reaction, at all.
Half of the players in my group immediately sold off their Warmachine/Hordes armies on eBay.
They are just plain not interested in the game at full price, especially with a new edition coming out.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2016/05/29 18:09:52
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Sucks for your meta, but with the massive presales of the new edition stuff and over 200 reported new retailers signing up to carry stock they don't seem to be suffering too much for the change.
2016/05/29 18:39:24
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
I'm glad I stopped back in to catch up on this. It seems people are selling off in heavy numbers so I guess I'll hold off posting my Menoth stuff until a bit later. Mine isn't so much from these policies as the extra attention from them making me realize that I have not touched my WMH stuff in quite a few years..
I will say that while I do not like what PP is doing or what has similarly been done by GW in the past I think both of those create really excellent opportunities for younger companies trying to make a name for themselves. Let's not forget that a large part of Mantics' success has been attributed to similar policies taking hold and driving forlorn gamers to the open arms of GW's tiny-foot producing cousin. I imagine this will have a similar effect.
*rushes to make a game about steampunk robots beating each other senseless*
AduroT wrote: Sucks for your meta, but with the massive presales of the new edition stuff and over 200 reported new retailers signing up to carry stock they don't seem to be suffering too much for the change.
It would suck for my meta if I was a supporter of the game - but even with a 25% discount, I have not bought any Privateer figures in years.
The not-so-local game store is supporting the game at the same level that they have all along, but sales for Warmahordes are down by almost 30% from last year at this same time. (And has been since before the announcement of 3rd ed.)
It could just be because Kings of War is really taking off here, so people are grabbing an excuse to unload their unwanted Warmahordes. (Which is, in my estimation, really silly - it would not be that hard to use the Warmahorde miniatures in Kings of War.)
X-Wing is kicking butt.
the Auld Grump - Warmahordes is still doing better than Age of Sigmar... but that really is not saying much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/31 22:10:45
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2016/05/31 22:16:37
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Killionaire wrote: You know, I for one applaud any effort to support the LGS. I do 90% of my gaming through FLGS, multiple in my are and previous area where I used to live.
Just because some people don't play primarily at their FLGS doesn't mean the FLGS doesn't provide a valuable service for others.
That's nice you have an FLGS - prior to 2 years ago, I didn't have one within a hundred miles of me.
It never ends well
2016/05/31 22:49:29
Subject: Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)
Killionaire wrote: You know, I for one applaud any effort to support the LGS. I do 90% of my gaming through FLGS, multiple in my are and previous area where I used to live.
Just because some people don't play primarily at their FLGS doesn't mean the FLGS doesn't provide a valuable service for others.
Thankfully there's still several retailers offering 30%+ off or more so that I do not have to pay to support your FLGS
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
